Is Catholicism all about works?

[Cathoholic]

And lastly . . . .

Here are some Scriptural examples of Jesus working in us and through us (“Grace works” as Steve Wood refers to this as)

PHILIPPIANS 2:12a 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation . . .

(yikes !!!)

HOW can we possibly DO this??

Fortunately St. Paul tells us in the very next sentence how. By God WORKING within us and through us that’s how!

PHILIPPIANS 2:12-13 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, **work out your own salvation **with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

2nd CORINTHIANS 6:1 1 Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.

PHILIPPIANS 4:13 13 I can do all things **in him **who strengthens me.

GALATIANS 2:20 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

EPHESIANS 3:20-21 20 Now to him who by **the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask **or think, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

HEBREWS 13:20a, 21 20a “Now may the God of peace . . . . 21 equip you with everything good that you may do His will, working in you that which is pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

**1st THESSALONIANS 2:13 **13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

PHILIPPIANS 1:6 6 And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

We became united with Him (Jesus) through Baptism.

**ROMANS 6:3-5 **3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Again by Baptism we were united to Christ and His body, the Church.

1st CORINTHIANS 12:13 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

1st CORINTHIANS 9:1 1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?

2nd CORINTHIANS 9:8a,c 9-10 8 And God is able to provide you . . . for every good work. 9 As it is written, “He scatters abroad, he gives to the poor; his righteousness endures for ever.” 10 He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your resources and increase the harvest of your righteousness.

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So the answer to your original question is, “No. Catholicism is not all about works”.

But “GRACE works” DO play an integral and necessary part in the life of the Christian believer in an ongoing sense in relation to your state in life.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I am NOT trying to be antagonistic here. I, myself am planning to join the Church, leaving a lifetime of Protestant roots. I emailed my mom about my choice this weekend. She is an ex-Catholic, confirmed in the Church, now a devout Protestant. She said she couldn’t be more devastated with my choice. That it was a mistake, and that Catholicism is all about working for your salvation. She mentioned penance, praying to Mary and several devotions like wearing a scapular or sacred heart pin, or Saint necklace and said that they were “works”. In what sense is she right or wrong here?

Yes! We are all about the works of God! The Paschal Mystery, The Sacraments, The Church, all works of God!

 

[mattp0625]

James 2: faith without works is dead

 

[Todd977]

There are indeed some things in Catholicism that, if taken out of context, might lead a person to think that salvation is based on our works. For instance, concerning penance, Tobit 4:11 says, “For alms deliver from all sin, and from death, and will not suffer the soul to go into darkness,” and, concerning the scapular, one of the promises associated with it is, “Whoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.”

Catholicism’s teaching on salvation is fairly simple: Believe, explicitly or implicitly, in Jesus Christ, receive the grace of baptism, which is ordinarily given in the sacrament of baptism, and then persevere to the end in avoiding mortal sin. The grace of baptism is a complete participation in the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ on the cross by which all the temporal and eternal consequences of Original Sin and all previous personal sins are ameliorated.

If a baptized believer should mortally sin, by commission or omission, then before death he must repent and receive the grace of reconciliation which is ordinarily given in the sacrament of reconciliation. The grace of reconciliation is only a partial participation in the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ on the cross by which all the eternal consequences of post-baptismal sins are ameliorated but some temporal consequences of those sins may remain. The baptized believer thus reconciled is heaven-bound, though any remaining temporal consequences of sin must be ameliorated before going to heaven. The remaining temporal consequences of sin can be ameliorated the easy way in this life though works of penance, such as almsgiving, or the hard way in the afterlife in a final, temporal, fiery participation in the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ on the cross in what Catholics call purgatory before going to heaven.

Penance, such as almsgiving, thus can “deliver from all sin,” if by sin is meant the temporal consequences of post-baptismal sins.

The promise associated with the scapular is understood to mean that the pious, baptized believer who habitually avoids mortal sin will assuredly receive the grace of final perseverance, if he dies wearing the scapular, and will be able to resist the last temptation to sin and “shall not suffer eternal fire.”

 

[Cathoholic]

JB Brother 4446.

You stated:

Yes! We are all about the works of God! The Paschal Mystery, The Sacraments, The Church, all works of God!

I concur and affirm what you are talking about.

But if Jennifer132 states it this way to her Protestant mother who somewhere along the way has imbibed anti-Catholicism it just makes it harder on Jennifer123.

Why?

Because the first idea that her Mom will immediately have materialize in her mind is . . .

. . . .Those Catholics DO teach works righteousness. They DO think in terms of EARNING your way to Heaven!

(She won’t hear the “works of God” portion that you mentioned)

Statements filled with piety directed at the Sacraments are appropriate for some people.

But when discussing “works” with Protestants who have been taught anti-Catholicism, they are taught to think “works” = “works on your own” = “false religious attempt to earn your way to Heaven”.

Yes you eventually go to Sacramental theology and especially Baptism and the Paschal Mystery, but emphasizing differences between “works on your own accord” and special graces attached to works helps the Protestant mindset understand all of this. Especially if they have been schooled in anti-Catholicism. And most especially if St. Paul (or “Paul” as they often say) is heavily referenced in your rebuttal.

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mattp0625. You discussed . . .

James 2: faith without works is dead

And I wholeheartedly agree with this too.

But in various Protestantisms, especially anti-Catholic traditions, James 2, has been rationalized away as kids in Bible school, and this rationalizing away of James 2 is frequently reemphasized by their preachers (so it doesn’t easily go away).

Sometimes even the Gospels are discarded concerning salvation.

They will say something like this . . .

“The Gospel of justification is finally unpacked for us by Paul. So I look to Paul to give me the proper interpretation.”

So appealing to James, and sometimes even appealing to Jesus (!) in Matthew 25:31-46 (here) doesn’t get you anywhere!

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

My response to the Protestant understanding of salvation and justification:

Salvation => Grace of God + Acceptance(Faith and Works)

I want to know if my view contadicts Catholic teaching and Holy Writ.

 

[Cathoholic]

I want to know if my view contadicts Catholic teaching and Holy Writ.

I’m not criticizing your “Catholic teaching and Holy Writ” at all JB Brother 4446.
That’s WHY I said: “I concur and affirm what you are talking about.”

My point is that some Protestants (not all but some, especially anti-Catholic Protestants) will see any formulation that includes “works” concerning “salvation” and conclude you are teaching “works righteousness”.

Salvation => Grace of God + Acceptance(Faith and Works)

“Works righteousness” = Saving yourself by your “works”.

This would scandalize non-Catholic people that have been taught misrepresentations of Catholicism.

If they don’t understand the difference between our mere “workings”, and God at work IN US and THROUGH US (and our cooperation with the work of Christ), they will reject the whole Catholic salvation message in discussions with them.

 

[mattp0625]

JB Brother 4446.

You stated:

I concur and affirm what you are talking about.

But if Jennifer132 states it this way to her Protestant mother who somewhere along the way has imbibed anti-Catholicism it just makes it harder on Jennifer123.

Why?

Because the first idea that her Mom will immediately have materialize in her mind is . . .

. . . .Those Catholics DO teach works righteousness. They DO think in terms of EARNING your way to Heaven!

(She won’t hear the “works of God” portion that you mentioned)

Statements filled with piety directed at the Sacraments are appropriate for some people.

But when discussing “works” with Protestants who have been taught anti-Catholicism, they are taught to think “works” = “works on your own” = “false religious attempt to earn your way to Heaven”.

Yes you eventually go to Sacramental theology and especially Baptism and the Paschal Mystery, but emphasizing differences between “works on your own accord” and special graces attached to works helps the Protestant mindset understand all of this. Especially if they have been schooled in anti-Catholicism. And most especially if St. Paul (or “Paul” as they often say) is heavily referenced in your rebuttal.

---

mattp0625. You discussed . . .

And I wholeheartedly agree with this too.

But in various Protestantisms, especially anti-Catholic traditions, James 2, has been rationalized away as kids in Bible school, and this rationalizing away of James 2 is frequently reemphasized by their preachers (so it doesn’t easily go away).

Sometimes even the Gospels are discarded concerning salvation.

They will say something like this . . .

“The Gospel of justification is finally unpacked for us by Paul. So I look to Paul to give me the proper interpretation.”

So appealing to James, and sometimes even appealing to Jesus (!) in Matthew 25:31-46 (here) doesn’t get you anywhere!

Yes, agreed. I have encountered this also.
There are many similar misrepresentations.
Still, the OP seems to understand.

But, at least she can now explain what a scapular is
This might plant the seed. If the scapular is so badly misrepresented, then what else?

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

In my way of thinking, the church says that can obtain heaven based on the fact that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead and conquered death . Our actions will not get us into heaven, our faith will. That is my understanding.
The church may state that our acts will not get us into heaven, but certainly our acts will condemn us to hell. This I also believe.
The rub comes when you think along these lines: While doing this, this and this will not get you into heaven, doing that, that and that will condemn you to hell. This leads to “so don’t do that, that and that and you will avoid hell.” Once at this point of thinking, it is very easy to say well instead of not doing that, that and that, I will do this, this and this- and I will go to heaven.
Trust me, there are many many catholics sitting in pews every Sunday who firmly believe that as long as they follow the rules they will go to heaven. “I went to mass per the precepts of the church. I went to confession per the precepts of the church. I didn’t eat meat on Fridays. I didn’t eat right before mass. I certainly will be going to heaven.” This mindset is rampant among the congregations.
Simply read this forum if you doubt me. “I drank mineral water before mass, am I going to hell? I had a piece of steak that I ate on Thursday stuck in my teeth on good Friday, am I going to hell?” The examples are endless. Trust me, regardless of the church’s official stance, many believe that our actions are what determine our salvation.