Is Catholicism compatible to Asia

[tata888]

It’s difficult for me to relate with Catholicism as someone of an Oriental descent. On one hand I love the Latin Mass, on the other I find it a little too euro-centric. But it isn’t just the Latin Mass, even the Norvus Ordo is euro-centric as well and almost every single Catholic discussions and Catholic posts are dedicated to European authors and philosophers whom are well known in the West but little known in Eastern countries. Sometimes I honestly feel as if the Church has abandoned her Asian children.

 

[bzkoss236]

Have you looked into any of the Eastern Catholic, and even Oriental Catholic, churches?

 

[waanju]

I’m sorry you feel that way!
Perhaps you’d feel more comfortable finding a parish with a larger Asian community? It’s not the church as a WHOLE that’s Eurocentric, it’s just that the majority of Catholics in the United States are of European descent, so they tend to incorporate elements mostly from their own backgrounds. However, even here, there is not a monolithic euro-centeredness EVERYWHERE
My home parish has very large Vietnamese and Filipino communities (and Mexican, Kenyan and Italian communities, plus their thoroughly mixed, fully americanized, multi-cultural kids) because I live in an area with lots of immigrants. We were all one community, but each smaller group contributed traditions and the masses in different languages included music and stuff from the culture. We also had a lot of events with local Eastern Orthodox parishes…

As for Asian Saints and theologians and things, yes, there are less than European ones (again because, historically, there have been a lot more European Catholics to choose from) but there are many Asian Catholics that are celebrated and honored! You might want to look up books on them. One book on Saints from Asia is this amazon.com/Saints-Asia-Vincent-J-OMalley/dp/1592761739

Of course, I’ve no idea what part of Asia you’re from, or I could be more specific!

 

[tata888]

Have you looked into any of the Eastern Catholic, and even Oriental Catholic, churches?

The Eastern Catholic Church, while composed of many Middle Eastern churches, are still predominantly European (Eastern European like Russian, Greek, or Ukrainian). They are far from reflecting Far East Asian cultures

 

[tata888]

I’m sorry you feel that way!
Perhaps you’d feel more comfortable finding a parish with a larger Asian community? It’s not the church as a WHOLE that’s Eurocentric, it’s just that the majority of Catholics in the United States are of European descent, so they tend to incorporate elements mostly from their own backgrounds. However, even here, there is not a monolithic euro-centeredness EVERYWHERE
My home parish has very large Vietnamese and Filipino communities (and Mexican, Kenyan and Italian communities, plus their thoroughly mixed, fully americanized, multi-cultural kids) because I live in an area with lots of immigrants. We were all one community, but each smaller group contributed traditions and the masses in different languages included music and stuff from the culture. We also had a lot of events with local Eastern Orthodox parishes…

As for Asian Saints and theologians and things, yes, there are less than European ones (again because, historically, there have been a lot more European Catholics to choose from) but there are many Asian Catholics that are celebrated and honored! You might want to look up books on them. One book on Saints from Asia is this amazon.com/Saints-Asia-Vincent-J-OMalley/dp/1592761739

Of course, I’ve no idea what part of Asia your from, or I could be more specific!

Sadly most Asian saints bear little records. Also though there have been many European theologians who utilize European philosophies and mythologies to preach the Gospel, not many are known for incorporating Eastern philosophies and mythologies in evangelization (save a few exceptional cases like Mateo Ricci). Even Asian churches rely heavily on European theological expositions. I’m not complaining, I love the West and the have always prefer the Latin Mass. But while we can use the Latin Mass to heighten a sense of unity, maybe in art, architecture, and theological expositions we can incorporate more regional culture to reflect the Church’s Catholicity

 

[George_Stegmeir]

I don’t know where you are getting your information, or how you can even think that Christianity or Catholicism is Euro-centric or that Catholicism or Christianity is not compatable with Asia. Whoever told you this non-sense has no knowledge of history, and very little knowlege of Christianity or Catholicism.
Believe it or not, Palestine, which is the homeland of Jesus Christ and where Christianity began, happens to be in Asia, likewise what is not Lebanon, Syria and what is now Turkey were the first areas outside of Palestine that were converted to Christianity.
In addition, it is known historically that the Apostle St. Bartholomew evangelized Armenia and Persia, and that St. Thomas evangelized and converted Muziri, India in about
51 - 52 AD.
It is also known that Marco Polo described Catholicism to the Imperial Chinese Court about 1275 AD, and the Spanish brought Catholicism to the Phillipines in 1521, that Jesuit missionaries were active in China well before 1600 and that one of the original Jesuits, St Francis Xavier brought Christianity to Japan in the 1500’s and later died on Sancian Island, China.
The religious practices (i.e. the liturgy of the Mass/Devine Liturgy) of both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are basically the same other than the language used. All the important parts and prayers are there and have been there since around the death of Christ and his Resurection, so I cannot see how you consider it Euro-centric.
That is an argument usually promulgated by Asian nationalist racists - Athiests, who are only spouting something they may have read but really do not understand.

 

[waanju]

Sadly most Asian saints bear little records. Also though there have been many European theologians who utilize European philosophies and mythologies to preach the Gospel, not many are known for incorporating Eastern philosophies and mythologies in evangelization (save a few exceptional cases like Mateo Ricci). Even Asian churches rely heavily on European theological expositions. I’m not complaining, I love the West and the have always prefer the Latin Mass. But while we can use the Latin Mass to heighten a sense of unity, maybe in art, architecture, and theological expositions we can incorporate more regional culture to reflect the Church’s Catholicity

For theology, I’m not qualified to answer. I haven’t studied ANY sort of theology nearly enough to analyze it’s cultural origins and do that analysis any justice.
By art, ect, you mean like this?
Madonna and Child paintings- phatmass.com/phorum/topic/119892-asian-madonnacatholic-art/
of this?
Catholic Church- masterfile.com/stock-photography/image/610-02374404/China-Guizhou-Guiyang-catholic-church (obviously this is IN China, but there might be some from America that look similar)

 

[tata888]

I understand we’ve made milestone in artworks, but scuptures and images in churches are still very european looking. Now I admit that many of them are infamous sacred images, but the predominantly european looking architecture and sculptures do alienate many Asians from the faith

 

[Morwenna]

Just sharing a few items:

Chinese martyrs: catholicworldreport.com/Item/1451/The_Voices_of_20thCentury_Chinese_Martyrs.aspx

catholicnewsagency.com/news/catholic-faithful-to-celebrate-witness-of-120-chinese-martyrs/

Korean martyrs: catholicnewsagency.com/news/korean_martyrs_museumshrine_reopens_in_seoul/

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?RecNum=4740

Vietnamese martyrs: catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=4951

Might there be a church like this near you? Video included: the33tv.com/about/station/newsteam/kdaf-church-in-arlington-becomes-the-largest-vietnamese-catholic-church-in-the-us-20111210,0,5868609.story

.

 

[waanju]

That is an argument usually promulgated by Asian nationalist racists - Athiests, who are only spouting something they may have read but really do not understand.

While everything you said is true, I think you did not show much charity in showing it. Especially that last line!
OP is a convert to the Church and was just mentioning that s/he felt some discomfort because not very many elements of his/her culture have been celebrated in his/her experience of the church so far. That’s totally understandable. The OP wants to see Catholicism’s truly universal nature exposed more in art, music, architecture, ect that reflects his/her own origins, as well as being able to look up to and emulate Saints and Catholic Theologians and things that come from his/her own cultural background. That’s natural! It’s human nature. Certain amounts of cultural pride are good and something to be treasured! One of the beautiful things about Catholicism is that it IS multi-cultural! OP may be misinformed about that. S/he hasn’t had exposure to elements of Catholicism that reflect his/her own culture, so s/he is looking for them. The right thing to do here is to direct him/her to what s/he is looking for, rather than react violently and angrily against his/her concerns.

OP- I understand where you’re coming from. It’s sad that you haven’t found elements of your culture celebrated within Catholicism. However, I promise that they do exist, you just haven’t found them yet! Do you know any people who share your culture and have been Catholic for longer? They might know resources for you. If there are more parishes in your area, one might have a cultural group/club/guild you could join to celebrate your heritage. I know that it might be hard because many of the popular religious images ect used in the US do draw from European culture, and since you’re living here rather than in Asia, that’s what you see. However, even here, celebrations of Asian Catholic culture do exist. I pray that you’re able to find them and wish you all the best.

 

[Francie3]

Perhaps you can be the one to make the difference.
As you see the need, God grant you will find a way to contribute.

Jesus wasn’t Western, and His redemption was intended for all nationalities…and God isn’t limited to any particular hemisphere or region. The Jews came from the desert, wandering tribes.

May God bless you and help you to grow deeply into the Church that Jesus began for us.

Francie

 

[waanju]

I understand we’ve made milestone in artworks, but scuptures and images in churches are still very european looking. Now I admit that many of them are infamous sacred images, but the predominantly european looking architecture and sculptures do alienate many Asians from the faith

I understand that and I think it’s a shame! As an Asian Catholic, perhaps you might find a group of like-minded people and suggest incorporating elements of your culture into the architecture of the next parish that your diocese builds? The problem here is that most architecture in the country (whatever it’s purpose) is European looking. Even a lot of the Buddhist temples and things! Combine that with the fact that new parish buildings are not made very often, and you have an explanation for the predominance of European looking architecture. So perhaps the reason that it is lagging behind art a bit in adopting elements of Asian stylistic/aesthetic modes is simply that buildings are built a LOT less often than paintings are painted.

 

[Richard320]

It’s difficult for me to relate with Catholicism as someone of an Oriental descent. On one hand I love the Latin Mass, on the other I find it a little too euro-centric. But it isn’t just the Latin Mass, even the Norvus Ordo is euro-centric as well and almost every single Catholic discussions and Catholic posts are dedicated to European authors and philosophers whom are well known in the West but little known in Eastern countries. Sometimes I honestly feel as if the Church has abandoned her Asian children.

Hmmm… Maybe you ought to move to Los Angeles. When I go to the early Mass at the Cathedral, it seems like about 60% of the attendees are Filipino, Chinese, or Vietnamese. And I know there’s at least one Korean Saint on the tapestries inside the Cathedral. I’d have to look him up to get the name, but I know he’s there. There might be others.

Might the lack of attention to Asian philosophers be because there aren’t many? I haven’t heard much about Asian bullfighters or rodeo cowboys, either. If I’m wrong, educate us.

 

[waanju]

Hmmm… Maybe you ought to move to Los Angeles. When I go to the early Mass at the Cathedral, it seems like about 60% of the attendees are Filipino, Chinese, or Vietnamese. And I know there’s at least one Korean Saint on the tapestries inside the Cathedral. I’d have to look him up to get the name, but I know he’s there. There might be others.

Might the lack of attention to Asian philosophers be because there aren’t many? I haven’t heard much about Asian bullfighters or rodeo cowboys, either. If I’m wrong, educate us.

*There are TONS of Asian philosophers, Richard meant to say Asian *Catholic *philosophers.

And I live in LA too. Maybe we just have an uncommonly large Asian Catholic population?

 

[4Squarebaby]

And I live in LA too. Maybe we just have an uncommonly large Asian Catholic population?

Well the Cathedral is close to Chinatown, Filipinotown and Koreatown. California is a port of entry and the Asian population, of which Filipinos are the largest has the biggest percentages of Asian as anywhere in the US outside of Hawaii

 

[Richard320]

*There are TONS of Asian philosophers, Richard meant to say Asian *Catholic *philosophers.

And I live in LA too. Maybe we just have an uncommonly large Asian Catholic population?

Oops.

Yes, I should have included Catholic in there.

 

[waanju]

Well the Cathedral is close to Chinatown, Filipinotown and Koreatown. California is a port of entry and the Asian population, of which Filipinos are the largest has the biggest percentages of Asian as anywhere in the US outside of Hawaii

I feel dumb, because I knew all of this. I think I just forget because I’m Mexican/Lebanese so I tend to be exposed to that facet of the city more.

 

[waanju]

Oops.

Yes, I should have included Catholic in there.

It was pretty clear that’s what you meant, I just didn’t want you to unintentionally offend anyone. I can imagine reading that and being like

 

[patrick457]

You know, this reminds me of an observation that the late Japanese author Shusaku Endo (Catholic convert) had made. He opined - somewhat controversially - that Christianity as it is expressed in Western, European cultures will not work in Japan.

First of all, there’s the issue of religious ‘orthodoxy’ versus ‘heterodoxy’, where there seems to be no middle ground: you’re either orthodox in your beliefs or you’re not. Purity of teaching is given priority: no mixing-and-matching is allowed. This is somewhat foreign to Japanese culture, which had historically favored ‘harmony of diversity’ (anyone familiar with Japanese history here will be reminded of the syncretism between Buddhism and Shinto, the eventual amalgamation of Christianity and local beliefs among the ‘Hidden Christians’, as well as some of the so-called ‘new religions’.) This is related to the Japanese preference of the ambiguous, the ‘maybe’ over the absolute certainty of the West.

Second, there is the image of God as Father. Fathers in Japanese culture were traditionally seen as very stern, punitive, judgmental figures (according to a traditional proverb, the four most terrifying things in the world are “earthquake, lightning, fire and a father”). So the idea of God as a loving, merciful Father - qualities that are traditionally associated with a mother - is a somewhat foreign concept. Endo believes that this is the reason why among the Hidden Christians, the Almighty and even Christ Himself could not serve as the core of faith. Instead, attention was given to Mary under the form of Maria Kannon (Mary + the Buddhist bodhisattva of compassion, often portrayed as a woman in East Asia). For them, mother Mary was the mediator with the stern God of judgment - in short, Jesus was more or less identified with Mary, the compassionate, motherly love that embraces all. For Endo, the ‘indigenization’ of the Christian religion among the Japanese (as seen among the Kakure Kirishitan) transformed it from a father’s religion to a mother’s religion. Endo’s interpretation of Jesus is informed by this: much emphasis is placed on His ‘maternal’ compassion and self-sacrificial obedience. For him, this is what must be emphasized for Christianity to really work in Japan.

 

[Crescentinus]

You know, this reminds me of an observation that the late Japanese author Shusaku Endo (Catholic convert) had made. He opined - somewhat controversially - that Christianity as it is expressed in Western, European cultures will not work in Japan.

First of all, there’s the issue of religious ‘orthodoxy’ versus ‘heterodoxy’, where there seems to be no middle ground: you’re either orthodox in your beliefs or you’re not. Purity of teaching is given priority: no mixing-and-matching is allowed. This is somewhat foreign to Japanese culture, which had historically favored ‘harmony of diversity’ (anyone familiar with Japanese history here will be reminded of the syncretism between Buddhism and Shinto, the eventual amalgamation of Christianity and local beliefs among the ‘Hidden Christians’, as well as some of the so-called ‘new religions’.) This is related to the Japanese preference of the ambiguous, the ‘maybe’ over the absolute certainty of the West.

Second, there is the image of God as Father. Fathers in Japanese culture were traditionally seen as very stern, punitive, judgmental figures (according to a traditional proverb, the four most terrifying things in the world are “earthquake, lightning, fire and a father”). So the idea of God as a loving, merciful Father - qualities that are traditionally associated with a mother - is a somewhat foreign concept. Endo believes that this is the reason why among the Hidden Christians, the Almighty and even Christ Himself could not serve as the core of faith. Instead, attention was given to Mary under the form of Maria Kannon (Mary + the Buddhist bodhisattva of compassion, often portrayed as a woman in East Asia). For them, mother Mary was the mediator with the stern God of judgment - in short, Jesus was more or less identified with Mary, the compassionate, motherly love that embraces all. For Endo, the ‘indigenization’ of the Christian religion among the Japanese (as seen among the Kakure Kirishitan) transformed it from a father’s religion to a mother’s religion. Endo’s interpretation of Jesus is informed by this: much emphasis is placed on His ‘maternal’ compassion and self-sacrificial obedience. For him, this is what must be emphasized for Christianity to really work in Japan.

You have read Shusaku Endo? O:
I’m not that sure with the Koreans though. o: