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jredden92
Guest
I know the CCC says Pantheism is problematic I was wondering if Panentheism was to and whether any church documents have discussed it.
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edward_george1
Guest
If the Catechism says pantheism is problematic then:
-Fr ACEGC
- No, Catholicism isn’t compatible with pantheism
- There is a document that talks about pantheism. Look in the Catechism.
-Fr ACEGC
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jredden92
Guest
I was asking about Panentheism not Pantheism
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edward_george1
Guest
Still problematic for the same reason, in that God is not part of the universe and the universe is not part of God. God created all things and sustains them in being, but is transcendent, not one thing among all else.
po18guy
Well-known member
What’s next? Pseudo-panentheism? I need a wall chart.
I see the term was coined in 1800s Germany. It seems to have been conjured up by one philosopher (Karl Krause) to distinguish between the ideas of Hegel (“the Protestant Aquinas”) and Schelling.
Isn’t that almost a distinction without a difference? I suppose that, in academia, it is monumental… or something.
I see the term was coined in 1800s Germany. It seems to have been conjured up by one philosopher (Karl Krause) to distinguish between the ideas of Hegel (“the Protestant Aquinas”) and Schelling.
Isn’t that almost a distinction without a difference? I suppose that, in academia, it is monumental… or something.
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dochawk
Guest
panpseudopanenthianism
po18guy
Well-known member
We cannot discuss panentheism without discussing what is either its progenitor, or derivative, Entheism. At first blush, it sounds über modern and über confused.
https://www.entheism.org/
https://www.entheism.org/
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Shakuhachi
Guest
Then how can we claim God is omnipresent?
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jredden92
Guest
Well I don’t think God is part of the universe. I just believe God is everywhere in the universe but also beyond it. Maybe it isn’t panentheism I’m thinking of.
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jredden92
Guest
Using the Lord’s pray as an example really help’s me understand why it doesn’t work. Thank you!
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Shakuhachi
Guest
How so?
Psalm 149
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Where can I go from your spirit?
From your presence, where can I flee?
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If I ascend to the heavens, you are there;
if I lie down in Sheol, there you are.
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If I take the wings of dawn
and dwell beyond the sea,
10
Even there your hand guides me,
your right hand holds me fast.
Psalm 149
7
Where can I go from your spirit?
From your presence, where can I flee?
8
If I ascend to the heavens, you are there;
if I lie down in Sheol, there you are.
9
If I take the wings of dawn
and dwell beyond the sea,
10
Even there your hand guides me,
your right hand holds me fast.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
Maybe this will help from New Advent
Immensity and ubiquity, or omnipresence
Space, like time, is one of the measures of the finite, and as by the attribute of eternity, we describe God’s transcendence of all temporal limitations, so by the attribute of immensity we express His transcendent relation to space. There is this difference, however, to be noted between eternity and immensity, that the positive aspect of the latter is more easily realized by us, and is sometimes spoken of, under the name of omnipresence, or ubiquity, as if it were a distinct attribute. Divine immensity means on the one hand that God is necessarily present everywhere in space as the immanent cause and sustainer of creatures, and on the other hand that He transcends the limitations of actual and possible space, and cannot be circumscribed or measured or divided by any spatial relations. To say that God is immense is only another way of saying that He is both immanent and transcendent in the sense already explained. As some one has metaphorically and paradoxically expressed it, “God’s centre is everywhere, His circumference nowhere.”
That God is not subject to spatial limitations follows from His infinite simplicity; and that He is truly present in every place or thing — that He is omnipresent or ubiquitous — follows from the fact that He is the cause and ground of all reality. According to our finite manner of thinking we conceive this presence of God in things spatial as being primarily a presence of power and operation — immediate Divine efficiency being required to sustain created beings in existence and to enable them to act; but, as every kind of Divine action ad extra is really identical with the Divine nature or essence, it follows that God is really present everywhere in creation not merely per virtuten et operationem, but per essentiam. In other words God Himself, or the Divine nature, is in immediate contact with, or immanent in, every creature — conserving it in being and enabling it to act. But while insisting on this truth we must, if we would avoid contradiction, reject every form of the pantheistic hypothesis. While emphasizing Divine immanence we must not overlook Divine transcendence.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IIB
Immensity and ubiquity, or omnipresence
Space, like time, is one of the measures of the finite, and as by the attribute of eternity, we describe God’s transcendence of all temporal limitations, so by the attribute of immensity we express His transcendent relation to space. There is this difference, however, to be noted between eternity and immensity, that the positive aspect of the latter is more easily realized by us, and is sometimes spoken of, under the name of omnipresence, or ubiquity, as if it were a distinct attribute. Divine immensity means on the one hand that God is necessarily present everywhere in space as the immanent cause and sustainer of creatures, and on the other hand that He transcends the limitations of actual and possible space, and cannot be circumscribed or measured or divided by any spatial relations. To say that God is immense is only another way of saying that He is both immanent and transcendent in the sense already explained. As some one has metaphorically and paradoxically expressed it, “God’s centre is everywhere, His circumference nowhere.”
That God is not subject to spatial limitations follows from His infinite simplicity; and that He is truly present in every place or thing — that He is omnipresent or ubiquitous — follows from the fact that He is the cause and ground of all reality. According to our finite manner of thinking we conceive this presence of God in things spatial as being primarily a presence of power and operation — immediate Divine efficiency being required to sustain created beings in existence and to enable them to act; but, as every kind of Divine action ad extra is really identical with the Divine nature or essence, it follows that God is really present everywhere in creation not merely per virtuten et operationem, but per essentiam. In other words God Himself, or the Divine nature, is in immediate contact with, or immanent in, every creature — conserving it in being and enabling it to act. But while insisting on this truth we must, if we would avoid contradiction, reject every form of the pantheistic hypothesis. While emphasizing Divine immanence we must not overlook Divine transcendence.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IIB
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jredden92
Guest
So…Panentheism is or isn’t compatible?
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Athanasiy
Guest
Dutch-Jewish philosopher Spinoza philosophized about Pantheistic ideas, but you can not find any thing like that in a Catholic Cathechism historical chronology ,Spinoza’s views on Pantheism were considered heretical not only by the Church but also by Orthodox Judaism.
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Matthew25
Guest
Is…according to my interpretation of panenthiesm. Yes we have God (divine DNA) in us. We are not God but we are in God (Body of Christ). God is in us, proved by the incarnation. We want to consider God as Creator compared to a potter and a piece of clay. I believe a more accurate comparison is a living one, as Father to child. I am not my child, but my child certainly has parts of me in them.
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