Is Catholicism in any way "anti-female"?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tips22
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
There is a perception among many women that Catholicism doesn’t treat women fairly. The same might be said of Southern Baptists and some other Protestant groups,
Code:
   I think this perception is created in large part by long processions of men - cardinals and such - with not a woman present. It suggests that the Church is run completely by males. I understand that the Eucharist will be offered only by priests (all males) during the Pope's visit to the USA.

    The Church has moved forward somewhat, but has a distance to go. Mainline Protestants now have ordained thousands of women, which has given women key leadership roles and also helped confront the clergy shortage problem.
 
I just remembered studying the Puritans, and they were anti-woman, they thought that all women were born evil and it was up to men to keep women in line. (At least this is what my teacher taught, I wasn’t interested so I didn’t dig further.) I mean if a woman was raped they would blame her and not the man because she must have bewitched him or flung herself at him. This was their mentality and I think the Muslims are pretty close, but again I haven’t studied this too much, I am just rememberin this and it may have come from a biased mouth, but you may want to choose one of those religions instead, and if you don’t want to offend anyone choose the Puritans, I think they are pretty much gone.
 
Margarite
Code:
 Puritanism along with all religions viewed women as subordinate over past centuries. I believe Catholicism was in large part responsible for putting to death thousands of women in medieval Europe, condemning them as witches or heretics. St. Augustine and other Church Fathers wrote about women as though they were the basic cause of evil in the world. Through Eve can sin - and such nonsense. 

  The leaders of the feminist movement in the USA were almost entirely either Protestant or anti-organized-religion. In more recent decades Jews have played a significant role, far greater than their small numbers would suggest.
 
Margarite

I believe Catholicism was in large part responsible for putting to death thousands of women in medieval Europe, condemning them as witches or heretics.
Why would you believe that?
 
My teacher suggested that for my Latin project on Religion in the Roman Empire and now around the world, I research the topic of if any religions are anti-female.

As I know very little about this topic I’ve come to the experts.
Therefore, and I’m sorry if this is at all offensive, is Catholicism at all “Anti-Female”?
Why?
Or Why not?
Are there any religions with Anti-female beliefs?

I just considered that I’ve never heard of a female Pope or Archbishop and that the Bible shows Eve to have tempted Adam and wished to know what people thought. Thanks 🙂
There is a church hierarchy that doesn’t give women some of key leadership roles. During the Medieval Ages, women in Christian nations weren’t often permitted roles where they had authority over men. Women are expected to obey their husbands, unless commanded to do something that violates God’s laws.

In Medieval and ancient Israelite society, if men also grew up in a class that was beneath that of the nobles or of the kings, they were expected to obey their authorities without question, unless commanded to do something that broke God’s laws.

In the Christian religion, everyone grows up beneath God and is expected to obey him absolutely. He is an absolute monarch.

Christianity and Judaism have been traditionally hierarchical religions. That is eroding under the influence of modern society, which asserts the rights of the individual now on every level of culture and society.

I do not see the traditional Christian practices as anti-woman, when it places the man as the head of the household, or as anti-man, when it requires that a man obey his sovereign. Really, saying that the woman must submit to the man doesn’t require much more of her than it does of the man, for the man has to submit to his sovereign in the same way. He must bend to ecclesiastical and secular authorities. And all must submit to God.

None of this is anti-human. It isn’t anti-woman and it isn’t anti-man. The idea (read Mary Astell) is that the people one must submit to have been given authority by God, and submission to them is spiritual training for submission to God. God will ultimately demand perfection of every person (and his grace gives us the means to come into this), so he is not so easy a sovereign to obey than an earthly sovereign. If we cannot submit to earthly leaders, how can we expect our souls to be in good shape to submit to divine authority?

Every human is equally valuable. Not every human has the same role, however. Some roles have more authority than others. One can call the monarchical system anti-most-men, or the male/female relationship anti-woman, if one is looking at it from a strictly modern, secular perspective. But really both systems are designed to spiritually train the soul, and both purify a human to make him or her ready to ascend to the Kingdom of God. The material world is full of symbols of the glory of God.

Submission in modern times is often seen as weakness. In our society, rebelliousness is constantly praised in popular culture and films. Submissive people are seen as cowards. In Christian culture, however, submission is a virtue. Many Christians aren’t cowards. The Early Church Fathers submitted to the Roman Empire and were martyred, and they conquered the Roman Empire’s soul for Christ through non-violent methods. They were not cowards but heroes, in their passive submission to the Emperor and in their vigorous, charismatic service to God.

Mary Astell wrote that if one had an abusive husband, marriage could even serve as a form of martyrdom for a woman, and that in this time too she should submit to him, and in this way submit to Christ.

It is much harder to turn the other cheek than it is to strike back. It is much more virtuous to turn the other cheek. Submission is a virtue, and doing it toward one’s Earthly authorities trains the soul for submission to heavenly authorities. And submission links oneself to the heart of God. Look at how Christ submitted to earthly authorities! Never was there such injustice as that which was perpetrated against him. He told his disciples not to fight in his defense, however, and he chose not to call legions of angels to his aid. He chose instead to submit, and he was glorious in his humility.

Here is what the scripture says on this point:
Philippians 2:5-11:
Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death- even death on a cross.

Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Was Jesus’ submission to such injustice as the Jewish authorities perpetrated against him a wrong act? If he was the hero of a modern movie, he’d have taken a sword and led his disciples to war, defeating Israeli authorities and the Roman Empire’s legions ;). Instead, he decided that submission was a higher calling than justice. His followers should emulate him forever. Whether they be woman or man, they should accept the role God has given them with humility, and should function within it in submission to the hierarchies of the time, knowing that these represent Christ for us.

We can argue with them if they’re doing wrong, but ultimately, when the authorities over us have made a decision (even a bad one), and they do have a legitimate role in power, their decision must be final. That is the only way to have an ordered society, as opposed to a chaotic one.
 
My point of view as a convert to Catholicism (about a year and a half now):

The Catholic Church esteems women more highly than any other. The love and veneration of the Blessed Mother speaks volumes. We have the greatest regard for her place in our faith.

There are nuns and other women in the Church who play such a key role such as Teresa of Avila, a doctor of the Church, Mother Angelica, Mother Teresa, St. Therese, etc. And many many women saints andy holy women for us to look to as fine examples of what we should strive to be.

The Catholic Church looks out for, protects and esteems women unlike any other through discouraging masturbation and pornography, valuing chastity, encouraging NFP and emphasizing the evils of abortion which can scar a woman forever emotionally, physically and spiritually.

While to outsiders the Catholic Church may appear to repress women since they are not permitted to be priests (just another way I consider they protect them from the stress and responsibility that would go with that position), etc., as a member, I know that the Catholic Church places women in higher esteem than any other religion!

Amie
 
When Our Lady said “Yes” to God she did not ask permission of any man. She did not ask her father or her husband to be. She made her commitment to God alone.

This act of submission to God has given freedom to all women. It was at this moment that women were freed from the constraints of men and were given the gift and power to follow God in ways that no other religion and ideolgy could ever imagine.

As a woman I am free and strong in the service of God and His Church.

Yes, I do believe that men and women have been given different roles to play in the service of God.

It is not God who regards the service of women as inferior to the service of men. It is secular society that regards the unique skills and gifts of women as inferior to those of men.

It is secular society that regards love and compassion as inferior to power. It is secular society that uses women as objects and cogs in the machine of commerce. It is secular society that takes strength from the home and gives it to big business and big government. It is secular society that seeks to destroy the honor of being a mother.
 
i haven’t read the whole thing yet, but i have heard really good things about JPII’s apostolic letter - the dignity of women
and if you just google “dignity of women” you’ll find a lot of other supporting information.
 
When Our Lady said “Yes” to God she did not ask permission of any man. She did not ask her father or her husband to be. She made her commitment to God alone.
St. Paul did say that women should submit to their husbands, though. So that’s NT, not only OT.

It’s just that whether you’re a man or a woman, while you should submit to the earthly authorities God has placed above you, you should submit to God first. If the earthly authorities ask of you anything that transgresses God’s law, it is to be rejected. If they don’t, they are to be obeyed (provided they aren’t exceeding their rightful authority).
 
Which part of the faith is anti female?

How is it objective to start when we have not defined what anti female means?
Good point Fix! 🙂 I went off on a tangent. I was sorta all over the place. Lot’s of good posts in here.
 
I think anti-female tends to be equated with anti-feminist in this culture.
 
My point of view as a convert to Catholicism (about a year and a half now):

The Catholic Church esteems women more highly than any other. The love and veneration of the Blessed Mother speaks volumes. We have the greatest regard for her place in our faith.

There are nuns and other women in the Church who play such a key role such as Teresa of Avila, a doctor of the Church, Mother Angelica, Mother Teresa, St. Therese, etc. And many many women saints andy holy women for us to look to as fine examples of what we should strive to be.

The Catholic Church looks out for, protects and esteems women unlike any other through discouraging masturbation and pornography, valuing chastity, encouraging NFP and emphasizing the evils of abortion which can scar a woman forever emotionally, physically and spiritually.

While to outsiders the Catholic Church may appear to repress women since they are not permitted to be priests (just another way I consider they protect them from the stress and responsibility that would go with that position), etc., as a member, I know that the Catholic Church places women in higher esteem than any other religion!

Amie
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
Very Well Said!
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
Margarite

Puritanism along with all religions viewed women as subordinate over past centuries. I believe Catholicism was in large part responsible for putting to death thousands of women in medieval Europe, condemning them as witches or heretics. St. Augustine and other Church Fathers wrote about women as though they were the basic cause of evil in the world. Through Eve can sin - and such nonsense.

The leaders of the feminist movement in the USA were almost entirely either Protestant or anti-organized-religion. In more recent decades Jews have played a significant role, far greater than their small numbers would suggest.
Please give some citations to support your first paragraph.
I am not defending any other religion but my own, I don’t know enough about the other religions to speak well, and fairly about them, so I cannot comment on the second paragraph.
 
Ohhhhh, thanks. The bit I don’t understand the most in the article is unfortunately very long…

*Further, in 1994 Pope John Paul II formally declared that the Church does not have the power to ordain women. He stated, “Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force. Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful” (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4).

And in 1995 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in conjunction with the pope, ruled that this teaching “requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium 25:2)” (Response of Oct. 25, 199* 😦 :eek:
Did you ever get the explanation you asked for? The first is the document declaring “definitively” that the Church cannot ordain women and that all the faithful are to accept this judgment, even though it is still debated in some places. The CDF reinforces the ruling, that it is “set forth infallibly”.
 
St. Paul did say that women should submit to their husbands, though. So that’s NT, not only OT.

It’s just that whether you’re a man or a woman, while you should submit to the earthly authorities God has placed above you, you should submit to God first. If the earthly authorities ask of you anything that transgresses God’s law, it is to be rejected. If they don’t, they are to be obeyed (provided they aren’t exceeding their rightful authority).
Paul also told men to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. The Church is always referred to as “She” The Church is feminine therefore can hardly be anti-female.

That doesn’t mean that there have not been men who have twisted God’s words to their own desire for power. But, this is something that both men and women do. Neither sex has a monopoly on sin nor a desire for control and power.
 
Women can control men if they want to- For some reason I cannot understand some women have a desire or need to be dominated.

DD
For the same reason many men have a desire or need to be dominated.

I don’t understand this need myself, but I certainly have observed it through out life.

Men and women have differing tactics in order to control each other but the ability to use and abuse each other is a universal sin.
 
Paul also told men to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. The Church is always referred to as “She” The Church is feminine therefore can hardly be anti-female.
Yes, this is another case of what occurs in the physical realm representing greater spiritual realities. The scripture says that a husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church, and be willing to give up his life for her. It also says that woman should submit to her husband.

This should occur physically. Each man should love his wife in this extreme way, and each woman should submit to the will of her husband. This physical relationship in this way symbolizes the submission of the Church (or the individual soul) to her Christ, and Christ’s love for his Church (or the individual soul) which is so extreme that he died for her.
That doesn’t mean that there have not been men who have twisted God’s words to their own desire for power.
Women submitting to men in the marriage bond is not a twisting of God’s words. It is a physical reality, ordained by God, in the relationship between husband and wife. Husband and wife should work together, but if there is a strong clash of wills, the husband wins. If both partners were exactly equal in the power relationship, then clashes of these kinds would drive the partners apart. That is seen a whole lot in modern marriages, and part of the reason is that women are taught in modern times not to pay attention to Biblical teachings on the roles of gender. Men, also, are not taught to love their wives to such an extent that they’ll give up their very lives for them. Neither gender is being taught its appropriate responsibilities. Both are suffering for it.

This power relationship is a great blessing to those that participate in it. The relationships of my parents and grandparents have been very deep and loving, and in both relationships, both the men and the women fulfilled their Biblical gender responsibilities. The women submitted to the men where there was an important and strong clash of wills, but almost always the two were working together on everything. The men loved their wives deeply and made sacrifices for them. Both couples loved one another.

I know that this works on a practical level. It also teaches virtue to both partners. Submission to a god-appointed hierarchy (even when it’s wrong, provided it isn’t ordering you to disobey God’s laws), as I pointed out in my first post in this thread, is a virtue. So is the husband making such sacrifices for his life, and living in such devotion to her. The acceptance of these roles teach virtue to each partner. They also train the souls of each partner for the higher relationship their Lord expects of them.

This physical relationship is symbolic of the higher spiritual relationship. Just as man’s role as protector of his wife to the extent of laying down his life for her is symbolic of Christ’s laying down his life for his bride, so the submission of the woman to her husband is symbolic of the submission of the soul to the Lord. The physical realities are not replaced by the relationship of the Church and Christ. They glorify that relationship and symbolically reveal its meaning to human families.

This is a wonderful case of the relationship roles God created glorifying God.

So is the relationship of children to their parents, for that matter. Parental relationships with their children represent the relationship between God and his children.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top