Is Christ present in the Eucharist in other Christian denominations?

[300WhiteKnights]

What does the Catholic Church teach about the Eucharist in other Christian denominations who believe that he is really and truly present in the Eucharist? For example, is Jesus really present in the Orthodox, Anglican, or Lutheran Eucharist?

It seems unfair that He wouldn’t be just because they disagree on small things like the duration of his presence.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

What does the Catholic Church teach about the Eucharist in other Christian denominations who believe that he is really and truly present in the Eucharist? For example, is Jesus really present in the Orthodox, Anglican, or Lutheran Eucharist?

It seems unfair that He wouldn’t be just because they disagree on small things like the duration of his presence.

The Eastern Orthodox Churches have completely valid Sacraments including Holy Communion. Christ is fully present in the Orthodox Divine Liturgy just as He is at Catholic Mass or Catholic Divine Liturgy.

There are other groups that the Church says do have valid apostolic succession and therefore valid Sacraments. I know the Old Catholic churches are one, there may be a few others. I’ll let others that know more discuss those.

This might be better placed in the Non-Catholic religions forum.

 

[zab]

**
The presence of Christ by the power of his word and the Holy Spirit **
[1373](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1373.htm’) “Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us,” is present in many ways to his Church:197 in his word, in his Church’s prayer, "where two or three are gathered in my name,"199 in the poor, the sick, and the imprisoned,199 in the sacraments of which he is the author, in the sacrifice of the Mass, and in the person of the minister. But "he is present . . . most especially in the Eucharistic species**."200
1374** The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend."201 In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained.**"202 "This presence is called ‘real’ - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present."203
1375 It is by the conversion of the bread and wine into Christ’s body and blood that Christ becomes present in this sacrament. The Church Fathers strongly affirmed the faith of the Church in the efficacy of the Word of Christ and of the action of the Holy Spirit to bring about this conversion. Thus St. John Chrysostom declares: **
**It is not man that causes the things offered to become the Body and Blood of Christ, but he who was crucified for us, Christ himself. The priest, in the role of Christ, pronounces these words, but their power and grace are God’s. This is my body, he says. This word transforms the things offered.204 **

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Protestant Ministers do not have the faculties to change the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. But Christ is present in other christian chuches in other ways. Their Communion, I would asume, is similar to making a Spiritual Communion, asking Jesus to come into our souls but Jesus is not present in the unique way that He is present in our Catholic Eucharist.

 

[valentino]

What does the Catholic Church teach about the Eucharist in other Christian denominations who believe that he is really and truly present in the Eucharist? For example, is Jesus really present in the Orthodox, Anglican, or Lutheran Eucharist?

It seems unfair that He wouldn’t be just because they disagree on small things like the duration of his presence.

No.Christ is only present when an ordained priest speaks his words over the unconsecrated host.THe HS only works actively in the CC.This is the way in which Christ (God) wanted it done.All other church’s have been severed from the Church.They no longer have the authority to consecrate hosts.

 

[ringil]

Really, the Old Catholics? WOW I didn’t know that. Do they accept openly gay priests? I imagine they don’t have women priests. Of course a woman priest would not give valid sacraments.

 

[Myqyl]

I’m not sure… I know that Lutherans claim to have the Real Presence of Christ in their Eucharist, but I’ve heard some say they are wrong. This is why I would never receive communion at a Lutheran Church. If I am unsure and I receive I am approaching the table in an unworthy manner. I respect their belief and I am certain that it is possible for Christ to be present, so I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt, while retaining my doubt about their Communion. The Catholic Church says no, so I wouldn’t receive It. I will however respect their belief and will wait till Judgement Day to see what Jesus says about it.

I know with absolute certainty that my Church’s Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus. Beyond that, I can’t judge…

… but that’s just me

God bless

 

[Myqyl]

It seems unfair that He wouldn’t be just because they disagree on small things like the duration of his presence.

As I often tell my children, “Who ever said life was suppose to be fair?”

Kidding aside, we should never try to stand in judgement of what God decides. As I said in my previous post, I don’t know the answer, but I do know that whatever God says is the answer is the RIGHT answer, even if we don’t think it’s “fair”…

God bless

 

[runningdude]

Really, the Old Catholics? WOW I didn’t know that. Do they accept openly gay priests? I imagine they don’t have women priests. Of course a woman priest would not give valid sacraments.

Some Old Catholics might ordain gay males as priests. This wouldn’t affect the validity of the sacraments, provided the ordination itself was valid. Some Old Catholic churches have started “ordaining” women, which as you point out is not valid.

I know the Polish National Catholic Church started off as an “Old Catholic” church in the United States, but broke communion from churches that claim ordained woman. The Catholic Church recognizes their orders, and even allows a limited inter-communion (allowing PNCC members to receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church if desired).

I don’t believe the PNCC accepts gay priests - they are pretty orthodox except on the authority of the Pope (otherwise they wouldn’t have broken away) and the use of artificial birth control (which the church doesn’t endorse, but leaves to the married couple to discern). Other churches from the Old Catholic tradition are a mixed lot regarding homosexuality.

 

[RevRoy]

I am a practicing Catholic and former protestant minister (Christian Church, DOC). In my church, we practiced Holy Communion every Sunday. My prayer over the elements was that our Lord “bless these elements, the work of human hands, and use them for your holy purposes.” I could not say the words “that these elements, the work of human hands, become for us, the body and blood of our Lord …” Well, it was a protestant church.

I believed in and taught the real Presence and always have believed in the real presence. I also believed and still believe that Jesus today can do anything He wants to do. Who is to say that if a protestant was taught and believes that the Communion host is the real Presence of Christ, it is not so? By the same token, if a Catholic does not believe that the Communion host is the real Presence, it most certainly will not be the real Presence for that person.

I believe that faith transcends denominations and church polity, and that Jesus visits each of us personally and individually in Communion, which is the most personal and intimate part of Mass. That is why, when my priest elevates the Host for adoration, I reply “My Lord and my God.” Not OUR Lord and OUR God, but MY Lord and MY God.

This is a “For what it’s worth” response.

RevRoy

 

[TimothyH]

As stated in Zab’s citation of the Catechism, Christ is everywere.

Where can I hide from your spirit? From your presence, where can I flee?
If I ascend to the heavens, you are there; if I lie down in Sheol, you are there too.
If I fly with the wings of dawn and alight beyond the sea,
Even there your hand will guide me, your right hand hold me fast.
(Psalm 139:7-10)

But the fullness of Christ’s body, blood, soul and divinity exists in the form of the Eucharist. The entire substance of Christ resides in its fullness form in the Eucharist. The cited paragraphs from the Chatechsim are sublime. And the Eucharist is found only in the one, holy, apostolic and universal Catholic Church under the Holy Father in Rome.

-Tim-

 

[SouthpawLink]

What does the Catholic Church teach about the Eucharist in other Christian denominations who believe that he is really and truly present in the Eucharist? For example, is Jesus really present in the Orthodox, Anglican, or Lutheran Eucharist?

It seems unfair that He wouldn’t be just because they disagree on small things like the duration of his presence.

All Protestant sects are without the Sacrament of Holy Orders (they generally do not distinguish between the priesthood and laity), so the Holy Eucharist cannot be confected (made present) in their churches. Disagreeing about a sacrament instituted by Our Lord is not a small matter.

RevRoy:

I believe that faith transcends denominations and church polity, and that Jesus visits each of us personally and individually in Communion, which is the most personal and intimate part of Mass.

Catholics believe that the true Faith is only professed in the Catholic Church. If Jesus visits each of us (Catholic and Protestant) at Holy Communion, then the Catholic Church is in error regarding the necessity of a priest to confect the Holy Eucharist as well as in error regarding the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (Christ doesn’t reward Protestants for their errors, so if He’s in their Holy Eucharist then they must not be in error). If the Catholic Church is in error regarding those two things, then she is clearly not the Church of Christ.

 

[TimothyH]

Who is to say that if a protestant was taught and believes that the Communion host is the real Presence of Christ, it is not so? By the same token, if a Catholic does not believe that the Communion host is the real Presence, it most certainly will not be the real Presence for that person.

This cannot be so.

The sacramental presence of Christ in the Eucharist is an objective reality apart from anyone’s belief about it. As stated in my ealier post, Christ is present everywhere, but his sacramental presence, the entire substance of his body and blood, soul and divinity can only be found in the Eucharist as it is validly consecrated by a priest of God in the Holy Catholic Church.

A Protestant’s belief in the fullness of Christ’s presence in a Protestant communion bread does not make it so. If I as a Catholic believed that Protestant communion bread contained the same sacramental presence of Christ as the Catholic Eucharist and partook, I would not the same sacramental presence of Christ as that which is in the Eucharist. A Catholic’s belief that a validly consecrated Eucharist does not contain the sacramental fullness of Christ’s presence does not make it so. If a Catholic approaches the altar and does not believe, he is recieving the Lord anyway, apart from his belief.

When the priest says the words, it becomes the sacramental presence of Christ, the Eucharist. No Protestant minister has that ability. The Eucharist is an objective reality.

-Tim-

 

[Rolltide]

Ok, here it is broken down plain and simple:

According to Catholic belief, you have to have three things in order to have a valid consecration of the Eucharist:

1. Apostolic Succession. The bread and wine can ONLY be turned into the Body and Blood of Christ by a priest or bishop that has valid apostolic succession. This rules out virtually all Protestant churches by default.
2. Valid form and matter. The bread and wine must ACTUALLY be bread and wine. You cannot substitute grape juice, or a cracker, or something like that. The bread MUST contain at least a little wheat. It does not, however, have to be unleavened. The actual words of consecration that Christ used MUST also be used (with the ONE exception of the Liturgy of Addai and Mari used in the Assyrian Church of the East, which has no distinct consecration but garners an exception because the theology is still valid and it dates to the earliest days of Christianity).
3. Valid intent. The priest or bishop must be INTENDING to confect the Eucharist. If he is giving a demonstration of a Mass for a workshop or a class, for example, he is not intending the sacrament to be celebrated. This might also rule out a priest that later left the church for another denomination, but no longer believes in the Real Presence.

According to current Catholic teaching, besides Catholicism, the following denominations have a TRUE Eucharist where transubstantiation takes place:

1. The Orthodox Churches. This includes both the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox.
2. The Assyrian Church of the East
3. The Polish National Catholic Church

Male priests of the Old Catholic Church maintain valid apostolic succession and are able to confect the Eucharist. Female priests in the Old Catholic Church cannot, at least according to the Catholic view. The SSPX also preserves a true Eucharist, although they are simply in an irregular status with the church, and have not officially broken away.

Notably, the Anglican, Episcopalian, and Lutheran denominations do NOT have a valid Eucharist because they do NOT retain Apostolic Succession.

I think the SSPV may also have a valid Eucharist, but I am not certain on this point.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Really, the Old Catholics? WOW I didn’t know that. Do they accept openly gay priests? I imagine they don’t have women priests. Of course a woman priest would not give valid sacraments.

Because the Old Catholics separated themselves from the Pope, they have fallen into error. There are some factions within them that have attempted women ordinations. Some still try to maintain their traditional beliefs from before Vatican I. But obviously by falling into schism, they have fallen out of the protection of the Holy Spirit from error.

 

[Little_One0307]

I believed in and taught the real Presence and always have believed in the real presence. I also believed and still believe that Jesus today can do anything He wants to do. Who is to say that if a protestant was taught and believes that the Communion host is the real Presence of Christ, it is not so? By the same token, if a Catholic does not believe that the Communion host is the real Presence, it most certainly will not be the real Presence for that person.

I had to write back to this. Whether a Catholic believes in the Real Presence of Christ does not change the fact that Christ is made truly and really present on the Altar in every sacrifice of the Mass. By the same token if a non-catholic ecclesial community wants to believe that Jesus is present in their Communion does not change the fact that Jesus is not present in their communion.

What we believe in does not determine the ontological reality of something. For example, I can choose to disbelieve in gravity and can be quite sincere and teach others of my unbelief, but if I go jumping off of a 30 story building, I am going to find out really quickly that my belief and reality are not one.

I believe that faith transcends denominations and church polity, and that Jesus visits each of us personally and individually in Communion, which is the most personal and intimate part of Mass. That is why, when my priest elevates the Host for adoration, I reply “My Lord and my God.” Not OUR Lord and OUR God, but MY Lord and MY God.

RevRoy

He can be present to the Ecclesial Communities but not in the same way that He is present to Catholics and those in Communion with Rome. That is why we Catholics can say My Lord and My God when the Host or Chalice is elevated.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

Lutherans do not have the Real Presence, as they broke off from Apostolic Succession and from Communion of Rome.

God bless.

 

[zab]

I had to write back to this. Whether a Catholic believes in the Real Presence of Christ does not change the fact that Christ is made truly and really present on the Altar in every sacrifice of the Mass. By the same token if a non-catholic ecclesial community wants to believe that Jesus is present in their Communion does not change the fact that Jesus is not present in their communion.

What we believe in does not determine the ontological reality of something. For example, I can choose to disbelieve in gravity and can be quite sincere and teach others of my unbelief, but if I go jumping off of a 30 story building, I am going to find out really quickly that my belief and reality are not one.

Excellent point.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

Ok, here it is broken down plain and simple:

According to Catholic belief, you have to have three things in order to have a valid consecration of the Eucharist:

1. Apostolic Succession. The bread and wine can ONLY be turned into the Body and Blood of Christ by a priest or bishop that has valid apostolic succession. This rules out virtually all Protestant churches by default.
2. Valid form and matter. The bread and wine must ACTUALLY be bread and wine. You cannot substitute grape juice, or a cracker, or something like that. The bread MUST contain at least a little wheat. It does not, however, have to be unleavened. The actual words of consecration that Christ used MUST also be used (with the ONE exception of the Liturgy of Addai and Mari used in the Assyrian Church of the East, which has no distinct consecration but garners an exception because the theology is still valid and it dates to the earliest days of Christianity).
3. Valid intent. The priest or bishop must be INTENDING to confect the Eucharist. If he is giving a demonstration of a Mass for a workshop or a class, for example, he is not intending the sacrament to be celebrated. This might also rule out a priest that later left the church for another denomination, but no longer believes in the Real Presence.

According to current Catholic teaching, besides Catholicism, the following denominations have a TRUE Eucharist where transubstantiation takes place:

1. The Orthodox Churches. This includes both the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox.
2. The Assyrian Church of the East
3. The Polish National Catholic Church

Male priests of the Old Catholic Church maintain valid apostolic succession and are able to confect the Eucharist. Female priests in the Old Catholic Church cannot, at least according to the Catholic view. The SSPX also preserves a true Eucharist, although they are simply in an irregular status with the church, and have not officially broken away.

Notably, the Anglican, Episcopalian, and Lutheran denominations do NOT have a valid Eucharist because they do NOT retain Apostolic Succession.

I think the SSPV may also have a valid Eucharist, but I am not certain on this point.

I 2nd this. Very good answer.

 

[collegeprof]

This is one of the reasons I left the Catholic Church. I’ve never seen a logical, rational argument that made a case that the real presence could not take place outside the Catholic Church or that God would have a reason for not allowing such to take place. Simply my own opinion, I don’t seek is change anyone’s mind.

 

[zab]

This is one of the reasons I left the Catholic Church. I’ve never seen a logical, rational argument that made a case that the real presence could not take place outside the Catholic Church or that God would have a reason for not allowing such to take place. Simply my own opinion, I don’t seek is change anyone’s mind.

Christ is really present in many ways even outside the Catholic Church. When two or three are gathered in His Name, He is really there, you just can’t see Him. But He is not present in a way appeals to the senses like our Catholic Eucharist that can be seen, touched, tasted. When we eat His Body and drink His Blood we take Him inside of us and we share an intimate presence with Him. His Real Presence in the Catholic Church is unique.