Is Christ Really Equal To The Father?

[Sirach2]

You not looking at the context of John 10:30.
I suggest that you read the chapter please before saying what it means.

I had not intended to continue this conversation, but it just occurred to me, as I read back through the thread, that you keep trying to focus everyone on John 10:30,. Please note that I never isolated that scripture in our discussion. It was primarily to John 10:38 that I referred, and you have not responded, except to continually challenge others to interpret John 10:30, here and here. That must be the JW standard opening to catch others.

In fact, I gave an entire post of scriptures here, and you have not responded to them, either. In addition, I provided the interpretation for your difficulty in reconciling John 14:20 and 17:21 (below). Again, no response.
There is another sense of oneness, a true oneness in the spirit, not necessarily in the body. It is that sense that Jesus was referring to in Jn. 17:21. Were that not true, how else might one interpret this oneness when Jesus identifies with the very ones Saul was persecuting? It is to misconstrue the truth of Jesus’ Divinity by using Jesus’ identification and oneness with His mystical Body - they have two different meanings.

Acts 9:3. Now as Saul was going along and approaching Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?” 5. He asked, “Who are you, Lord?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”
Let me just add one more scripture to substantiate Paul’s experience of “persecuting Jesus”. Mt. 25:40, “Verily I say unto you, whatsoever you have done unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto Me.”

Jesus plainly spoke of His identification with those who do not recognize that He indwells His brethren, as He promised in John 14:23.

I’m not finding any openness to discussion from you, since you revert back only to those scriptures that are part of the JW arsenal, rather than address the truths others provided for your consideration of our faith. And for that reason, I concluded that you are not open.

 

[Sirach2]

ChosenOne7,

A couple more when you get the time to comment: Col. 1:19 and Col. 2:9

 

[Sirach2]

And persons besides his disciples called him “Lord,” or “Sir.” (Mt 8:2;Joh 4:11) In these cases the designation was primarily a title of respect or courtesy. However, to his apostles Jesus showed that calling him “Lord” involved more than this. Said he: “You address me, ‘Teacher,’ and, ‘Lord,’ and you speak rightly, for I am such.” (Joh 13:13) As his disciples, these apostles were his learners, or pupils. Thus he was their Lord, or Master.

This is false. Why do you overlook the rest of the scripture verse, that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus, whether those who are in heaven, those who are on earth or those who are under the earth. If it was confined only to those on earth as a title of respect, then why did the verse extend to those “under the earth?” Its meaning is far exceeding the mundane interpretation you gave it.

In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the ineffable Hebrew name YHWH, by which God revealed himself to Moses, is rendered as Kyrios, “Lord”. From then on, “Lord” becomes the more usual name by which to indicate the divinity of Israel’s God. The New Testament uses this full sense of the title “Lord” both for the Father and - what is new - for Jesus, who is thereby recognized as God Himself.

You are well trained in JW responses. Every time one has appeared at my door, the opening question is always, “What do you think of this verse?” If the person happens to respond, the JW has the necessary edge to let his show begin. He proceeds to render every interpretation as erroneous and intrudes with the JW concept of the verse.

 

[ChosenOne7]

It says: “And we are in the one who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life”.

I see the “He” as referring to the preceding noun (Jesus Christ) in the previous sentence. That would be proper grammer usage.

Also, in Scripture, Jesus is referred to as the “eternal life”.

If you read it that way then it would contradict what the rest of the Bible says, an exclusive title for God, the Most High, only true God, if we include the context of all the uses of the `true God,’ it is certain that He is the Father alone. God has given life through Jesus verse 11 says “And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”
God has given us eternal life which is in his Son, so who gives eternal life according to this verse is God. Remember God exalted Jesus to a higher position it’s from God’s authority that Jesus can now too give eternal life, the resurrection performed by Jesus was because of God’s spirit and was done to glorify God his father he himself said, remember too who resurrected Jesus when he died it was God… Scripture proves the Father is greater than Jesus, scripture says God exalted Jesus to a higher position, Jesus himself referred to God as “my God”… And that is consistent in scripture look at what Paul said at
Ephesians 1:17 says - “that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him.” notice Paul says the God of Jesus may give us spirit… Just like Jesus recognized that he had a God so too did Paul recognized Jesus had a God.
Verse 20 goes on to say - “which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places”
God raised Jesus from the dead, here’s that higher position God exalted Jesus to, placing him at his right hand… Verse 22 then says God made Jesus the head of the congregation meaning he is above and in control of the congregation and according to scripture we know the head of Jesus is God meaning his above Jesus, just like Jesus is above the congregation.
It’s not that hard to see God the Father is the one having more power an authority over his son Jesus Christ.

But coming back to 1 John 5:20
To clinch John’s intended meaning at 1 John 5:20, let’s look another use of the term: John 17:1, 3, where, again (as in 1 Jn 5:20), he mentions Father, Son, and eternal life.
At John 17:1-3 Jesus prays to the Father: “Father, … this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” - (NIV). Here the Father alone is not only very clearly identified as the only true God, but Jesus Christ is again pointedly and specifically excluded from that identification (“AND Jesus Christ whom you [the only true God] have sent”)
Read verse 2 - “For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.”
Definition of authority - the power or right to direct or control someone or something.
Jesus himself says God gave him that authority to give eternal life,without God’s authority Jesus wouldn’t be able to give everlasting life, but God gave it to him
I don’t think it’s that hard to grasp if we follow what the Bible really says

 

[Sirach2]

If you read it that way then it would contradict what the rest of the Bible says. …] I don’t think it’s that hard to grasp if we follow what the Bible really says

Whose bible? The JW bible? And whose interpretation of the verse? The JW interpretation?

Do not be so brash to assert that the JW version is the only correct one. “In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.” 2 Peter 3:16 Why do you suppose the 30,000 denominations that exist today have difficulty coming to a universal interpretation?

 

[JerryZ]

Definition of authority - the power or right to direct or control someone or something. Jesus himself says God gave him that **authority** to give eternal life.. I don't think it's that hard to grasp if we follow what the Bible really says

Authority. Does Jesus have the same authority as the Father?

Matthew 3:11
John the Baptist is speaking here “Indeed, I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who will come after me is more powerful than me. I am not worthy to carry his shoes. He will baptize you with the fire of the Holy Spirit.”

Mark 1:7
And he preached, saying: “A stronger one comes after me. I am not worthy to reach down and loosen the laces of his shoes. 1:8 I have baptized you with water. Yet truly, he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Matthew 28:19 Therefore, go forth and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

It seems that Jesus has as much authority as His Father

Also how do you explain Jesus explicitly stating to HIS Apostles that if they see HIM they are seeing the Father?

John Chapter 14

14:6 Jesus said to him: “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except through me. 14:7** If you had known me, certainly you would also have known my Father. And from now on, you shall know him, and you have seen him.**” 14:8 Philip said to him, “Lord, reveal the Father to us, and it is enough for us.” 14:9 Jesus said to him: “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me? Philip, whoever sees me, also sees the Father. How can you say, ‘Reveal the Father to us?’ 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I am speaking to you, I do not speak from myself. But the Father abiding in me, he does these works. 14:11 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? 14:12 Or else, believe because of these same works. Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me shall also do the works that I do. And greater things than these shall he do, for I go to the Father.

John Chapter 16

16:13 But when the Spirit of truth has arrived, he will teach the whole truth to you. For he will not be speaking from himself. Instead, whatever he will hear, he will speak. And he will announce to you the things that are to come. 16:14 He shall glorify me. For he will receive from what is mine, and he will announce it to you. 16:15 All things whatsoever that the Father has are mine. For this reason, I said that he will receive from what is mine and that he will announce it to you. 16:16 A little while, and then you will not see me. And again a little while, and you will see me. For I am going to the Father.”

Then there is also John 17:5 And now Father, glorify me within yourself, with the glory that I had with you before the world ever was.

Sorry! But there are just too many verses, that disagree with your position, or rather the position espoused by the JW.

…

 

[ChosenOne7]

Whose bible? The JW bible? And whose interpretation of the verse? The JW interpretation?

Do not be so brash to assert that the JW version is the only correct one. “In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.” 2 Peter 3:16 Why do you suppose the 30,000 denominations that exist today have difficulty coming to a universal interpretation?

I’ve purposely used NIV in quoting scripture because I knew someone would say something like that, like I said your approach is no different to Protestants, they say the same thing. Have you even taking the time to read the scriptures I gave in your own Bible?

That’s like asking why would people believe 13 men claiming to preach the truth in Jesus time… If we go back we know that there were many different sub-groups within ancient Judaism, and that the early “Jesus Movement” was just one of many different Jewish groups.bMoreover, the separation of Christianity from Judaism was not sudden, but happened gradually over several generations.
Judaism at the time of Jesus was both unified and divided, much like Christianity is today. All Jews believed and practiced some core aspects of their religion (Monotheism, the Law of Moses, Circumcision, etc) but different Jewish groups debated and disagreed with each other about many details (expectations of the Messiah, ritual and purity laws, how to live under foreign domination, etc.). Similarly all Christians today agree on certain core items (Jesus is the Son of God, the NT has 27 books, etc.) but disagree on many details (the number of sacraments, forms of worship, role of faith and good works, etc.).
The 3 major Jewish groups at the time was the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essences, and some smaller groups like the Herodians and th Zealots
They ofcause like many Christian denominations today agreed on many things but weren’t the same in worship. It’s interesting to note that they all didn’t accept the teachings of Jesus. Jesus started out with 12 diciples basically preaching to all those ppl from various religious backgrounds and correcting them in the scriptural thinking and teaching, not many accepted. Like Jesus used scripture to convey his message and teaching often saying “it is written” and then quotes the verse, even when being tempted by Satan 3 times he used then scriptures by saying 3 “it is written”, many times against pharisees aswel even who the Bible says “was well versed in the scriptures”, yet Jesus came and said they twisting scriptures and many then could see by what Jesus taught and said was the truth from the scriptures that’s how Jesus started getting followers. Bare in mind Jesus and his followers were most hated for their teachings all of them or most of them being killed for their preaching. Also bare in mind that Jesus and that 12 men with him were the only ones preaching truth. It’s also interesting to note that even though many of those religions did not get along they came together to kill Jesus. Many of Jesus followers if not all of them had to leave their beliefs and accept Jesus beliefs but that was because they could see it was truth. Like Paul was a pharisees and many other followers of Jesus was pharisees for example.
So what is happening today is probably the same as to what happened back then.

 

[ChosenOne7]

Throughout history God’s servants was preaching… Like look at the example of Moses he was brought up as an Egyptian but he left them to lead the Israelites, how many times didn’t he preach to Pharoah but to no avail or for how long weren’t the Israelites in Egyptian slavery, for how long weren’t they waiting to be delivered from God and for how long weren’t they telling the Egyptians about there deliverance from God so that they could save some of them… What about the time of Noah, him an his family were probably the only ones preaching that the end of coming with a flood of water, no one listened to him they mocked him too, but still he kept preaching regardless of what people said, we know only him and his family survived when the flood eventually came. Remember too that it never rained then for him to say it’s gonna rain am a flood will come was a crazy thing to hear, we can understand why ppl thought he was crazy an didn’t believe an follow him, that flood only came after 40 years of preaching… Today people laugh because Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only religion preaching that the end is coming, people mock, people call us weird names, people will say slanderous things against us, people will make us seem evil, you know how it goes… Yet that doesn’t stop us preaching or atleast that won’t, until God says this work which he commanded Jesus followers to do is complete. Even if police and government and religion should take arms against us so as to stop what we doing we won’t. What other Christians religion today do you know that is more successful than Jehovah’s Witnesses in preaching? Or atleast that makes ‘s much effort to reach people? That was one of the things that showed me they following Jesus example. Jw’ 's are preaching in over 230 lands around the world even going to the most remotest parts of the earth to reach people, We reach people of any language too, people where books and things don’t even come out in their language. I wish other religions would put that much effort in searching for people… Islam claim to be the only true religion but what do they do to reach people do they go out and preach… They don’t either

 

[JerryZ]

Throughout history God’s servants was preaching… Like look at the example of Moses he was brought up as an Egyptian but he left them to lead the Israelites, how many times didn’t he preach to Pharoah but to no avail or for how long weren’t the Israelites in Egyptian slavery, for how long weren’t they waiting to be delivered from God and for how long weren’t they telling the Egyptians about there deliverance from God so that they could save some of them… What about the time of Noah, him an his family were probably the only ones preaching that the end of coming with a flood of water, no one listened to him they mocked him too, but still he kept preaching regardless of what people said, we know only him and his family survived when the flood eventually came. Remember too that it never rained then for him to say it’s gonna rain am a flood will come was a crazy thing to hear, we can understand why ppl thought he was crazy an didn’t believe an follow him, that flood only came after 40 years of preaching… Today people laugh because Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only religion preaching that the end is coming, people mock, people call us weird names, people will say slanderous things against us, people will make us seem evil, you know how it goes… Yet that doesn’t stop us preaching or atleast that won’t, until God says this work which he commanded Jesus followers to do is complete. Even if police and government and religion should take arms against us so as to stop what we doing we won’t. What other Christians religion today do you know that is more successful than Jehovah’s Witnesses in preaching? Or atleast that makes ‘s much effort to reach people? That was one of the things that showed me they following Jesus example. Jw’ 's are preaching in over 230 lands around the world even going to the most remotest parts of the earth to reach people, We reach people of any language too, people where books and things don’t even come out in their language. I wish other religions would put that much effort in searching for people… Islam claim to be the only true religion but what do they do to reach people do they go out and preach… They don’t either

I am sorry but why do you believe that ONLY the JW believe that the end is coming?

Catholics have ALWAYS known that the end of the world WILL come! No doubt about it. Jesus told us so. Also the Catholic Church has been preaching to the end of the Earth for more than 2000 years and was the Church that compiled and disseminated the Bible. Without it there would be no Bible. But I would ask you where in the Bible yours or anyone else can you find a verse that says “Jesus commanded the Disciples to start distributing Bibles to the people”.

I am pretty sure it is NOT there. Jesus never wrote a single sheet of papyrus, parchment or clay tablet. We DO know that HE could read. For we are told that HE taught in the synagogue and read from the sacred scrolls. We also know that HE wrote something on sand, when the pharisees wanted to stone the adulterous woman to death. But the Bible does not tell us WHAT HE wrote.
Must have been powerful stuff that all of them one by one left. But not important enough to tell us what it was.
In other words Jesus left us a teaching Church with an ORAL Tradition.
That same Church started putting to written form the Tradition handed down by Jesus.
The same Church that presided over which books could become the Bible.
And since all of the historical evidence points to the Catholic Church the JW was founded when?
What justification can they put forth for their obvious late entrance in the world stage?
Apostasy? Sorry but Jesus promised quite clearly His Church would be protected until the very end of the world. The fact remains it is still here! warts and all.

…

 

[ChosenOne7]

I had not intended to continue this conversation, but it just occurred to me, as I read back through the thread, that you keep trying to focus everyone on John 10:30,. Please note that I never isolated that scripture in our discussion. It was primarily to John 10:38 that I referred, and you have not responded, except to continually challenge others to interpret John 10:30, here and here. That must be the JW standard opening to catch others.

In fact, I gave an entire post of scriptures here, and you have not responded to them, either. In addition, I provided the interpretation for your difficulty in reconciling John 14:20 and 17:21 (below). Again, no response.
There is another sense of oneness, a true oneness in the spirit, not necessarily in the body. It is that sense that Jesus was referring to in Jn. 17:21. Were that not true, how else might one interpret this oneness when Jesus identifies with the very ones Saul was persecuting? It is to misconstrue the truth of Jesus’ Divinity by using Jesus’ identification and oneness with His mystical Body - they have two different meanings.

Acts 9:3. Now as Saul was going along and approaching Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?” 5. He asked, “Who are you, Lord?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”
Let me just add one more scripture to substantiate Paul’s experience of “persecuting Jesus”. Mt. 25:40, “Verily I say unto you, whatsoever you have done unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto Me.”

Jesus plainly spoke of His identification with those who do not recognize that He indwells His brethren, as He promised in John 14:23.

I’m not finding any openness to discussion from you, since you revert back only to those scriptures that are part of the JW arsenal, rather than address the truths others provided for your consideration of our faith. And for that reason, I concluded that you are not open.

Okay in all fairness you don’t have to assume that I’m speaking of behalf of the rest of the Jw’s I’m speaking for myself and what I know and have learnt this has nothing to do with JW arsenak or whatever you think… I have to sit here and reply to 4 different people all using different scriptures I at times do get confused as to who I’m replying to… With regards to John 10:30 I’m sure that has been brought up by someone on this thread correct me if I’m wrong…
And as regards to that scripture u have I did respond… Perhaps u just ignored it, the longer posts are I think the more ppl lose our info from that post because they choose what to respond to in the post… I saw you said we mustn’t confuse the 2 when u said and I quote - “Jesus’ Divinity by using Jesus’ identification and oneness with His mystical Body - they have two different meanings.”
I then asked you since we both agreed that the oneness is speaking about oneness in spirit which rules out any trinitarians using that verse to prove Jesus an God is one right… I asked you then how would you tell the differenxe between the 2 when you read about Jesus and God being one… Which verse shows the 2 different meanings you referring to?

 

[ChosenOne7]

I am sorry but why do you believe that ONLY the JW believe that the end is coming?

Catholics have ALWAYS known that the end of the world WILL come! No doubt about it. Jesus told us so. Also the Catholic Church has been preaching to the end of the Earth for more than 2000 years and was the Church that compiled and disseminated the Bible. Without it there would be no Bible. But I would ask you where in the Bible yours or anyone else can you find a verse that says “Jesus commanded the Disciples to start distributing Bibles to the people”.

I am pretty sure it is NOT there. Jesus never wrote a single sheet of papyrus, parchment or clay tablet. We DO know that HE could read. For we are told that HE taught in the synagogue and read from the sacred scrolls. We also know that HE wrote something on sand, when the pharisees wanted to stone the adulterous woman to death. But the Bible does not tell us WHAT HE wrote.
Must have been powerful stuff that all of them one by one left. But not important enough to tell us what it was.
In other words Jesus left us a teaching Church with an ORAL Tradition.
That same Church started putting to written form the Tradition handed down by Jesus.
The same Church that presided over which books could become the Bible.
And since all of the historical evidence points to the Catholic Church the JW was founded when?
What justification can they put forth for their obvious late entrance in the world stage?
Apostasy? Sorry but Jesus promised quite clearly His Church would be protected until the very end of the world. The fact remains it is still here! warts and all.

…

I’m sorry to say but I’ve never seen a Catholic preach before, yes just about every other religion believes that the end is near but my question was why aren’t they making an effort then to save life’s of they know the end is so near. . Jehovahs witnesses are known for their preaching work and that’s fact regardless of how you look at it, we are the only ones preaching about God’s Kingdom that’s coming soon to earth an that will bring an end to Satans wicked world. We making an effort to reach people. Jesus done the same, Jesus was a preacher… Bible makes that clear… I can give scripture to support that too. He went from city to city, he went from house to house… Same what we doing… Jesus going to the synagogue was part of his worship to God… My question to you still remains why isn’t other Christian religions preaching or making so much effort to preach you believe in Jesus the follow his footsteps in that regard

 

[thistle]

I’m sorry to say but I’ve never seen a Catholic preach before, yes just about every other religion believes that the end is near but my question was why aren’t they making an effort then to save life’s of they know the end is so near. . Jehovahs witnesses are known for their preaching work and that’s fact regardless of how you look at it, we are the only ones preaching about God’s Kingdom that’s coming soon to earth an that will bring an end to Satans wicked world. We making an effort to reach people. Jesus done the same, Jesus was a preacher… Bible makes that clear… I can give scripture to support that too. He went from city to city, he went from house to house… Same what we doing… Jesus going to the synagogue was part of his worship to God… My question to you still remains why isn’t other Christian religions preaching or making so much effort to preach you believe in Jesus the follow his footsteps in that regard

How many times have JW’s predicted the end. All their predictions have proven to be false. Why would anyone want to listen to them??

 

[ChosenOne7]

How many times have JW’s predicted the end. All their predictions have proven to be false. Why would anyone want to listen to them??

That’s another topic on its own if you start a thread I’d be willing to discuss about that… We as Jw’s are aware of these dates and predictions… But it’s good to hear a story from both sides, so can hear what Jw’s think about it compared to what other people who aren’t Jw’s think about it… But start a new thread as these conversations normally takes long due to all the info and evidence people will have

 

[Sirach2]

And as regards to that scripture u have I did respond… Perhaps u just ignored it, the longer posts are I think the more ppl lose our info from that post because they choose what to respond to in the post… I saw you said we mustn’t confuse the 2 when u said and I quote - “Jesus’ Divinity by using Jesus’ identification and oneness with His mystical Body - they have two different meanings.”
I then asked you since we both agreed that the oneness is speaking about oneness in spirit which rules out any trinitarians using that verse to prove Jesus an God is one right… I asked you then how would you tell the differenxe between the 2 when you read about Jesus and God being one… Which verse shows the 2 different meanings you referring to?

On the contrary, I responded here, “In His Divinity, that scripture is true. In His Sacred Humanity, He emptied Himself.” (short form) As for trying to find a particular verse, you will not find one. We have the whole of scripture in its totality of verses to piece together the truth, and the fact that one verse alone does not encapsulate it in its entirety, as you are looking for, does not negate the truth. As you know, the evangelists do not expound in the same depth as St. John did, since he was writing in Greek to the Greek world of his time. It is easy to “create contradictions” when there are none, by violating the context of the passage(s) in question.

Rather than address my post, you went off on another tangent here about “Lord” being merely a social courtesy and denying that the Bible used the words “by nature WAS GOD.” (Read it again here - the very first scripture, “Who, being in very nature GOD”…) You ignored the content of my post completely and implied that I did not read John 10:30 correctly, even though I did not address that scripture.

Meanwhile, you injected the JW concept of Trinity (in red print) which had nothing to do with our discussion.

As I said, it becomes impossible to dialogue with you because you have your own agenda to prove.

 

[Sirach2]

We have the whole of scripture in its totality of verses to piece together the truth, and the fact that one verse alone does not encapsulate it in its entirety, as you are looking for, does not negate the truth. As you know, the evangelists do not expound in the same depth as St. John did, since he was writing in Greek to the Greek world of his time. It is easy to “create contradictions” when there are none, by violating the context of the passage(s) in question.

This is why Catholics believe and follow the Divinely-appointed Authority (the Church to correctly interpret scripture and its meanings.)
Note this passage stating that the Church is the bulwark of Truth. 1 Tim 3:15, "If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

And again, the reference to Tradition: 2 Thess. 2:15, “Stand firm and hold the teachings that you have learned, whether by word (oral transmission) or letter of ours (sacred scripture).” Catholics also have the riches of Sacred Tradition, therefore, and coupled with Church and Scripture, are able to attain irrevocably to the Truth.

Look at this example, which is only one of many *apparent *contradictions in scripture…
At what hour was Jesus crucified?
Mark 15:25 says it was in the third hour, 9:00 a.m. John 19:14-15 says that it was during the sixth hour (different clock). He was still not crucified yet but was being judged before Pilate. This was at about 6 a.m.
So three hours later, He was crucified. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Acts use Hebrew time for their reckoning. John uses Roman time.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

I’m sorry to say but I’ve never seen a Catholic preach before, yes just about every other religion believes that the end is near but my question was why aren’t they making an effort then to save life’s of they know the end is so near. . Jehovahs witnesses are known for their preaching work and that’s fact regardless of how you look at it, we are the only ones preaching about God’s Kingdom that’s coming soon to earth an that will bring an end to Satans wicked world. We making an effort to reach people. Jesus done the same, Jesus was a preacher… Bible makes that clear… I can give scripture to support that too. He went from city to city, he went from house to house… Same what we doing… Jesus going to the synagogue was part of his worship to God… My question to you still remains why isn’t other Christian religions preaching or making so much effort to preach you believe in Jesus the follow his footsteps in that regard

Catholic missionaries have been preaching the Word of God since the time of the Apostles, as recorded in the Acts. Whole countries have been converted to Christianity because of Catholics in the dark ages, the middle ages, the Renaissance, and all of man’s history since Jesus Christ was on earth, during which time NO ONE ever heard of JWs who only popped onto the scene a mere hundred years or so ago.

What JW’s are doing is trying to convince ALREADY Baptized Christian people to give up their Christian Truth and be seduced by lies that were exposed and destroyed during the Arian heresy in the 4th century AD. The evil heresy that Jesus is not One with the Father in Substance. From that horrible lie, it is nothing to swallow all of the rest.

 

[JMM1957]

Throughout history God’s servants was preaching… Like look at the example of Moses he was brought up as an Egyptian but he left them to lead the Israelites, how many times didn’t he preach to Pharoah but to no avail or for how long weren’t the Israelites in Egyptian slavery, for how long weren’t they waiting to be delivered from God and for how long weren’t they telling the Egyptians about there deliverance from God so that they could save some of them… What about the time of Noah, him an his family were probably the only ones preaching that the end of coming with a flood of water, no one listened to him they mocked him too, but still he kept preaching regardless of what people said, we know only him and his family survived when the flood eventually came. Remember too that it never rained then for him to say it’s gonna rain am a flood will come was a crazy thing to hear, we can understand why ppl thought he was crazy an didn’t believe an follow him, that flood only came after 40 years of preaching… Today people laugh because Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only religion preaching that the end is coming, people mock, people call us weird names, people will say slanderous things against us, people will make us seem evil, you know how it goes… Yet that doesn’t stop us preaching or atleast that won’t, until God says this work which he commanded Jesus followers to do is complete. Even if police and government and religion should take arms against us so as to stop what we doing we won’t. What other Christians religion today do you know that is more successful than Jehovah’s Witnesses in preaching? Or atleast that makes ‘s much effort to reach people? That was one of the things that showed me they following Jesus example. Jw’ 's are preaching in over 230 lands around the world even going to the most remotest parts of the earth to reach people, We reach people of any language too, people where books and things don’t even come out in their language. I wish other religions would put that much effort in searching for people… Islam claim to be the only true religion but what do they do to reach people do they go out and preach… They don’t either

ChoseOne7,

Where, I ask, do you get this kind of information that you are putting out here? Either you are deliberately trying to insult Catholics just for the fun of it, or you are truly ignorant of the facts. I will assume that it is the latter. Is this the type of education they give you at the kingdom hall? Its almost ludicrous that I, or anyone needs to set you straight on the complete error of your thinking when it comes to preaching the Gospel. Throughout all of Christianity from the time of the Apostles till now, the Catholic Church has done more to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ than anyone, period. Even non-Catholic Christians would agree with this if they are being honest. We don’t have to go door to door as you do, nothing stops us from doing it though. That just happens to be the way your organization chooses to do it. The Catholic Church spreads the Gospel in many, many other ways than going door to door, and they have done it since the earliest centuries of the Church. We have done it through hospitals, schools, universities, missions, orphanages, monasteries, etc. Preaching the Gospel is at the heart of what we do, but we also have to take care of peoples needs that go beyond just the Gospel, this is something Jesus always emphasized (Matt. 25-35).

Friend, do not be misled that your organization is doing more preaching of the Gospel in this world than anyone else. If you need more information about what the Catholic Church has done and is doing in the world to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you can simply “google” it. I don’t have the time to go into detail concerning this subject on the forum. I hope we can get back to the original topic that was being discussed.

 

[JMM1957]

ChosenOne7,

Getting back to the original subject, can you please give me your understanding of Rev.1:8, Rev. 22:12-13, Rev.21:6, and Rev.22:20. Who is doing the speaking in each of these verses?

 

[chesterlab]

Just read the creeds. They are spelled out very clearly.

 

[ChosenOne7]

ChosenOne7,

Getting back to the original subject, can you please give me your understanding of Rev.1:8, Rev. 22:12-13, Rev.21:6, and Rev.22:20. Who is doing the speaking in each of these verses?

Revelation… One of the most difficult books to understand and can so easily be misunderstood and taking out of context… But before I answer and give you my understanding let me just ask, have you read the whole book of Revelation before? And if you did will you agree with me that in Revelation there are 4 different speakers that speaks at anytime, namely John, God, Jesus and a angel?