Is Christ talking about excommunication?

[ajpirc]

In Matt. 18:8-9, Christ is saying that if any of your body parts cause you to sin, cut it off, for it would be better to enter the kingdom without that part than to be thrown into the fiery Gehenna. Of course Christ isn’t being literal (unless your a fundamentalist) so would he be saying that if one person of the Church sins, excommunicate them so that the rest don’t fall into the same darkness and cause the entire Church to eventually be thrown into Hell with him? This is what it sounds like to me, but maybe Christ really was telling us to chop off our hands and pluck out our eyes.

 

[thistle]

In Matt. 18:8-9, Christ is saying that if any of your body parts cause you to sin, cut it off, for it would be better to enter the kingdom without that part than to be thrown into the fiery Gehenna. Of course Christ isn’t being literal (unless your a fundamentalist) so would he be saying that if one person of the Church sins, excommunicate them so that the rest don’t fall into the same darkness and cause the entire Church to eventually be thrown into Hell with him? This is what it sounds like to me, but maybe Christ really was telling us to chop off our hands and pluck out our eyes.

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 8. And if thy hand, or thy foot, &c. These comparisons are to make us sensible, that we must quit and renounce what is most dear to us, sooner than remain in the occasions of offending God. (Witham) — These words more properly mean our relatives and friends, who are united to us as closely as the different members of the body. This he had touched upon before, yet he again repeats it, for nothing is so pernicious, nothing so dangerous, as the company and conversation of the dissolute. Connections of friendship and affinity, are sometimes more powerful in inclining us to good or evil, than open compulsion. On this account Christ, with great earnestness, commands us to cut with those most near and dear to us, when they are to us the immediate occasions of scandal. (St. Chrysostom, hom. lx.)

 

[TimothyH]

I think the whole chapter is mostly Jesus speaking to the leaders of his Church, using their questions as occasions to teach them how to be good pastors. I think this because of the context under which Jesus is speaking and to whom he is speaking. Note that Matthew often does not differentiate between Apostles and Disciples but the author clearly states that Peter asked questions so the conversation is probably between the twelve.

The comments about cutting off one of your members is part of a greater discourse on causing children to sin. And if you look at it, it is a discourse about children and men who go after lost sheep. Jesus speaks about brothers who sin and telling it to the Church (verse 17) and grants his listeners the authority to bind and loose on earth and in heaven (Verse 18). He then states that where two or three are gathered in His name, He is in thier midst, which seems like more than just a hint at his promise to guide his Church to infallible truth.

Jesus then goes on to tell the parable of the wicked servant who did not do to others as his master had done to him. The entire Chapter has the feel of a Shepherd teaching his trainees how to be good shepherds themselves. And it’s not implausible to suggest that there are shepherds who need to be cut off today.

To me the passage speaks of my willingness to cut off things which I think I need but really don’t and which might be occasions for sin. TV is one. The gym membership is another. Maybe it means having to give up some hobby or hanging out with some people who are occasions for sin. It is better to cut these off than to wind up in Hell.

No magesterial teaching here. Just my own thoughts.

-Tim-

 

[valentino]

IMO He’s just stressing a point.not to take it literally.If there is any sin that causes one to go to Hell do you’re best to get rid of it.Anything is better than missing Heaven.

 

[ajpirc]

What is the purpose of excommunication anyway? Do the bishops even excommunicate anymore?

 

[valentino]

What is the purpose of excommunication anyway? Do the bishops even excommunicate anymore?

Excommunication is the process of cutting one off from the Church and its sacraments.In the eyes of the Church he is in mortal sin and unless he denounces what he has done and goes to confession and is forgiven he is in danger of hell.

 

[ajpirc]

Excommunication is the process of cutting one off from the Church and its sacraments.In the eyes of the Church he is in mortal sin and unless he denounces what he has done and goes to confession and is forgiven he is in danger of hell.

Are you saying that he is excommunicated because he is in the state of mortal sin or he is in the state of mortal sin because he has been excommunicated? I guess the first one makes more sense.

Are those who have been baptized but are descendants of the teachers of heresy or schisms considered excommunicated from the Church? (And when we say the Church, we are talking about the Catholic Church and not the “invisible” Church made up of all Christian faithful, right?)

Also, I don’t think Martin Luther went to Confession for attacking the Church’s teachings, so would he be a good example of being in mortal sin and in danger of damnation?

And how often is someone excommunicated? It doesn’t seem as though anybody’s getting excommunicated in these days.

 

[valentino]

Are you saying that he is excommunicated because he is in the state of mortal sin or he is in the state of mortal sin because he has been excommunicated? I guess the first one makes more sense.

Are those who have been baptized but are descendants of the teachers of heresy or schisms considered excommunicated from the Church? (And when we say the Church, we are talking about the Catholic Church and not the “invisible” Church made up of all Christian faithful, right?)

Also, I don’t think Martin Luther went to Confession for attacking the Church’s teachings, so would he be a good example of being in mortal sin and in danger of damnation?

And how often is someone excommunicated? It doesn’t seem as though anybody’s getting excommunicated in these days.

If a person preaches heresy and the Church condemns it He is in mortal sin,if he doesn’t renounce his stand the Church excommunicates Him.A person is not responsible for his father,no he is not excommunicated.2nd question.Sorry.Yes inregards to Luther however The Church can never in fact say for positive one is in Hell.For instance,Some people think luther was inbalanced.On the surface it appears that Luther was honestly trying to serve God by doing what he was doing.He was pointing out some errors the Church was engaged in.As a result the Church changed a couple of percieved errors.But Luther then went overboard and discredited the Pope’s authority all together.The Church would have had admitted Luther back in if he would have acknowledged the Pope’s authority had retracted some of his 95 pts.Many people aren’t officially excommunicated but a person living in mortal sin and refuses to confess his sin(s)is in a sense excommunicated.He has severed his relationship with God and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.A person who is Catholic and divorces his wife and remarries without permission from the Church is excommunicated.There aren’t many excommunications that we hear about because they aren’t made public unless its a person of some reputation.But people are excommunicated one way or another everyday.Nancy Pelosi was threatened by the Church with excommunication but I didn’t hear the outcoome.

 

[Benay]

In answer to a question posed on this thread: “Do Bishops still excommunicate?”

The answer is “Yes.” There was a recent case in Phoenix. Arizona, where the bioethics committee of a Caritas hospital, approved an abortion for a woman they believed could only be saved except by an abortion. A Catholic religious (Nun) was a member of that committee and voted in favor of the abortion based upon the evidence given.

The Bishop of Phoenix excommunicated that Nun thereby separating her from her order and effectively removing her from her means of support – her job.

As an aside, there is still on the books, automatic excommunication for anyone obtaining an abortion or performing an abortion.