Is Christ the means through which God can change?

[truthseeker32]

One of the most frequent objections I hear to the orthodox Christian concept of God is as follows:

“If God is unchanging, why pray to him?”

However, this immutability of God seems only to apply to the foremost of the Trinity, God the Father. After all, scripture and history show us that Christ changed. He went from sleeping to waking, not eating to eating, smiling to weeping, and so on.

Is it possible that, because of Christ’s human nature, God is actually able to change?

 

[ConstantineTG]

One of the most frequent objections I hear to the orthodox Christian concept of God is as follows:

“If God is unchanging, why pray to him?”

However, this immutability of God seems only to apply to the foremost of the Trinity, God the Father. After all, scripture and history show us that Christ changed. He went from sleeping to waking, not eating to eating, smiling to weeping, and so on.

Is it possible that, because of Christ’s human nature, God is actually able to change?

Christ is unchanging as well. Wasn’t it St. Paul who wrote that Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? But unchangable doesn’t mean that petitions cannot be granted. God’s will must be accomplished, that is for sure. How that will is accomplished can surely change. If you ask God to give you B instead of A, that doesn’t mean God has changed. God is still God and His will is still accomplished whether you got A or B. But if His will cannot be accomplished by what you asked for, you will not get it.

 

[Richca]

One of the most frequent objections I hear to the orthodox Christian concept of God is as follows:

“If God is unchanging, why pray to him?”

God has made prayer to him a necessary means for our salvation as well as for the salvation of others. For we should prayer for others besides ourselves. Now God certainly knows whether or not you may pray to him today or tomorrow, but it will be up to you whether or not you actually do pray.

 

[Mystophilus]

One of the most frequent objections I hear to the orthodox Christian concept of God is as follows:

“If God is unchanging, why pray to him?”

Because prayer is for us, not for God.

However, this immutability of God seems only to apply to the foremost of the Trinity, God the Father. After all, scripture and history show us that Christ changed. He went from sleeping to waking, not eating to eating, smiling to weeping, and so on.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Scripture represents God the Father as changing, in the superficial sense of responding in different ways to different situations. What remains unchanging is the nature of God, and the same is true for the Logos.

 

[truthseeker32]

Christ is unchanging as well. Wasn’t it St. Paul who wrote that Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? But unchangable doesn’t mean that petitions cannot be granted. God’s will must be accomplished, that is for sure. How that will is accomplished can surely change. If you ask God to give you B instead of A, that doesn’t mean God has changed. God is still God and His will is still accomplished whether you got A or B. But if His will cannot be accomplished by what you asked for, you will not get it.

When you say Christ is unchanging do you mean it in the sense that his nature will never change, or that he can’t change period (i.e. going from walking to not walking)? I am assuming you mean it only in the first way, since Christ clearly underwent several physical changes during both his recorded mortal and post-mortal life.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Truth__

Jesus has two natures : divine and human. As a human he is changing. As God he is unchanging. God is one pure eternal act. He sees everything as one. Out of millions of worlds, he creates this one and sees everything that will happen in it. He sees that you will pray and decides that he will answer your prayer in one way or the other.

Does this answer your question?

Verbum

 

[truthseeker32]

Hi Truth__

Jesus has two natures : divine and human. As a human he is changing. As God he is unchanging. God is one pure eternal act. He sees everything as one. Out of millions of worlds, he creates this one and sees everything that will happen in it. He sees that you will pray and decides that he will answer your prayer in one way or the other.

Does this answer your question?

Verbum

It depends on how you define change. If change is any alteration in state, then we have to say god has to remain constant in every way. His thoughts, actions, etc. can never change. He cannot answer prayers unless he is always answering them.

However, if by change we mean that God’s personality, goal, etc. cannot be altered it would be a different story. This seems to be the God of Christianity. We like to say God hears our prayers and answers them. I suppose one can argue that in some complex way God is always hearing and answering prayers, eternally. Still, in the end it all becomes quite complicated, especially when the incarnation of Christ is brought into the picture. It is also impossible for human beings to comprehend timelessness. We can only think of things in spacial and temporal ways.

 

[Verbum]

Hi,Truth_,

Naturally, we cannot really comprehend God and we have to talk about Him in human term. Even the Bible does so, when it says that God is sorry or angry. But, speaking theologically, we have to try and speak of God as He is, or as St;.Thomas Aquinas says, as He is not.

Still we should avoid the obvious heresy. As children, we sometimes heard the sisters say : “Oh this makes Jesus cry.” This is not good teaching. Jesus, as God cannot cry; He is infinitely happy. As a man, he has suffered, died and resurrected, and He is now “in heaven”, where there is no tear or any kind of suffering. Any intimation that Jesus or Mary or any other person in heaven is unhappy is wrong.

What do you think?

Verbum

 

[zz912]

It depends on how you define change. If change is any alteration in state, then we have to say god has to remain constant in every way. His thoughts, actions, etc. can never change. He cannot answer prayers unless he is always answering them.

However, if by change we mean that God’s personality, goal, etc. cannot be altered it would be a different story. This seems to be the God of Christianity. We like to say God hears our prayers and answers them. I suppose one can argue that in some complex way God is always hearing and answering prayers, eternally. Still, in the end it all becomes quite complicated, especially when the incarnation of Christ is brought into the picture. It is also impossible for human beings to comprehend timelessness. We can only think of things in spacial and temporal ways.

I think you are confusing the idea of unchanging with unmoving. God acts/moves at certain points, like creating the universe, or becoming man, etc. But His divine nature does not change.