Is Christianity about to triumph or fail?

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I know the suggestion was stick to the U.S. but I personally always wondered what God’s plans were back in the Middle Ages when there appeared two time where Christianity could have possibly triumphed worldwide.

The first was before the rise of Islam in the East. The Church (even the Nestorians) sent many missionaries to Persia, Arabia, and I still cannot comprehend why the Church there ultimately did not consolidate itself before Muhammed arose (we know he knew of Christian teaching). Perhaps it was because historically during this time there was still an imbalance and dispute among the Christian Monophysites, Greeks, Nestorians which discouraged proper spreading of the Word as the Word was not fully understood.

The second opportunity for worldwide triumph came around the Crusades. The Great Mongol Khan had accepted Christian missionaries into his court, his mother was already a Nestorian Christian, and had he converted and taken the entire Asia-dominated Mongol Empire’s subjects with him, the Christian forces in the Middle East would have naturally had an ally against the Muslim Army. Indeed, many Crusaders actually placed hope in the oncoming (at this point) pagan Turkic armies accepting Christianity and making the Holy Land and Asia Christian. Had Christ somehow interjected with a helpful push it may have happened. (Hopefully without blood, but then Christians killed each other pretty well too in the Middle Ages so this is all way too hypothetical).

As for today’s faltering, well who can really discount an approaching major shift in the way we proceed should Complete Economic collapse raise its head, or a superflu make people question their faith structure; or something positive causing a restrengthining in numbers in the Church: one possibility often mentioned are the hundreds of millions of “untouchables” stuck in India’s caste system sometime in the future converting to Christianity, or Christianity filling the spiritual vacuum which is so obvious in China. This would involve talking on the order of 2 billion people. With Christ all things are possible.
 
I have difficulty discussing the church as it pertains to the U.S. It’s a universal reality and limmiting it to a particular reality forces the focus on the particular. As it is united to the prophetic spirit it has triumphed, is both triumphant and failing on earth untill divinized at the foot of the cross in her final death/birth experience.

Now christianity is shrinking like a conscience being deadened by rationalizations of excuses mistaken for reason. But, as the world shuts it’s ears, and it is abandoning any conscious worship, this means the various images of good raised up by the various religions will be assimilated and their subjective good claimed and forgotten.

The world worships at the subconscious level, meaning it forms it’self into an image of good it is not conscious of. This is why religion is touted as archaic and will be considered uncivilized even so that mankind will be seeking good consciously but the image of that good is not since religion and worship will have become to the world a relic behaviour of the past.

Jesus said this as He entered Jerusalem 'If you quiet these the very stones will cry out"
 
KyivAndrew said:
I know the suggestion was stick to the U.S. but I personally always wondered what God’s plans were back in the Middle Ages when there appeared two time where Christianity could have possibly triumphed worldwide.

The first was before the rise of Islam in the East. The Church (even the Nestorians) sent many missionaries to Persia, Arabia, and I still cannot comprehend why the Church there ultimately did not consolidate itself before Muhammed arose (we know he knew of Christian teaching). Perhaps it was because historically during this time there was still an imbalance and dispute among the Christian Monophysites, Greeks, Nestorians which discouraged proper spreading of the Word as the Word was not fully understood.

The second opportunity for worldwide triumph came around the Crusades. The Great Mongol Khan had accepted Christian missionaries into his court, his mother was already a Nestorian Christian, and had he converted and taken the entire Asia-dominated Mongol Empire’s subjects with him, the Christian forces in the Middle East would have naturally had an ally against the Muslim Army. Indeed, many Crusaders actually placed hope in the oncoming (at this point) pagan Turkic armies accepting Christianity and making the Holy Land and Asia Christian. Had Christ somehow interjected with a helpful push it may have happened. (Hopefully without blood, but then Christians killed each other pretty well too in the Middle Ages so this is all way too hypothetical).

As for today’s faltering, well who can really discount an approaching major shift in the way we proceed should Complete Economic collapse raise its head, or a superflu make people question their faith structure; or something positive causing a restrengthining in numbers in the Church: one possibility often mentioned are the hundreds of millions of “untouchables” stuck in India’s caste system sometime in the future converting to Christianity, or Christianity filling the spiritual vacuum which is so obvious in China. This would involve talking on the order of 2 billion people. With Christ all things are possible.
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The growth of Christianity has always been periodic. Decades after Columbus discovered America, Christians faced an Muslim foe that threatened to overrun all of Europe. The turning point came at Lepanto. There after the colonization of the Americas
and the spread of Spanish and Portuguese, then Dutch and English trade around the world, brought Christians in contact with much of the world. The expansion of Russia went along with the collapse of Muslim authority in Europe, at about the same time the expansion of European influence in India. However, it was weakened by the rise of secularism, and so the growth of the European empiresd brought only marginal growth of Christianity. Now Christianity seems on the point of disappearing in secular Europe as it almost did in the lands taken over by the Muslims. On the other hand, it is growing both in half-savage Africa and in civilized China. Knocks it down in one place and it bobsup into other, unlikely places.
 
I appreciate all these reflections, and they all seem to be on target. I was hoping for a discussion more centered on the future of Christianity in the U.S., as I think we have here a living experiment that we are all the more able to observe and comment on.

I know it’s an unpleasant subject for many, and it seems depressing to look at the spiritual lay of the land today. But this is exactly why we need to look at it and look for ways to lift our spirits and hope that the current radical decline of morals in America is not to be viewed as a bottomless pit.

If this means that we must look at the way the Church has failed, and why it has failed, or at the way society as a whole has failed and why it has failed, then we should take a look. Otherwise, we delay the day of reckoning but probably not the day of wrath.
 
Western culture has failed. Europe as we have known it is already dead, if you have not already noticed this. The United States is not too far behind. The most “Western” of the eastern countries, Japan, is dead. China still kicks, but they are doomed to contract as spectacularly as they meteorically arrived on the industrial scene.

The reason for all of this is demographics. I’d like to point out one thing about predictions based on demographic data: they are the most accurate of all sociological predictions. This is because we can know with great certainty what a population might be like in 30 years simply by looking at how many births we have today. This leverages an epistemic certainty that simply does not exist for all other types of sociological trend analysis.

The demographic picture for the West, and for Japan, and for China, too, is profoundly disturbing. 2.1 births per woman are necessary for “replacement rate”, which means simply holding ground. The “Christianized” elements of every single Western country are around 1.3. Note that throughout the entire course of human history few cultures have ever survived when birthrates fall below 1.8. None have survived when they’ve fallen to 1.3.

The United States would be at 1.3 except for Hispanic immigration which pushes the number up to 2.1 – replacement rate. At present the only two groups of significance with truly robust demographic growth in the United States are the Mormons and the Menonite sects, who weigh in at around 8 births per woman or so.

We can philosophize about how this stunning reversal, almost unseen in history, occurred among the “boomer” generation born starting in 1948, but the cold hard fact is that this reversal has happened regardless of how we afix the cause.

A demographic contraction along this scale has occurred in the West once before, and it resulted in the period known as the Dark Ages. During this period the Christian Church was left standing as the sole keeper and preservation agent of the remnants of the western cultural inheritance from ancient Rome and Greece.

My guess is the same sort of thing will happen again. Western power and influence is about to implode. Again, accross Europe it already has. It is just a matter of time before the ramifications of this are realized by the populace. A “back to the basics” sort of Great Awakening will likely take place within the next 50 years, or western culture will vanish altogether. In either event what will emerge from its ashes several hundred years from now will look very different than what we recognize of it today.

And, yes, it will take several hundred years (again, demographics bear this out. It takes 100 years to recover from sliding to a 1.8 births per woman rate). My suspicion is that the Church will be the leader and the cultural preservation agent once again.

But that’s just a hunch, an educated guess. The cold fact is that we in the west are in for a wild ride; and it breaks my heart that my kids and future grandkids (if I am indeed blessed with them - cross my fingers) have got this inheritance which is so much bleaker than what I had.
 
mystagogia said:
Western culture has failed. Europe as we have known it is already dead, if you have not already noticed this. The United States is not too far behind. The most “Western” of the eastern countries, Japan, is dead. China still kicks, but they are doomed to contract as spectacularly as they meteorically arrived on the industrial scene.

The reason for all of this is demographics. I’d like to point out one thing about predictions based on demographic data: they are the most accurate of all sociological predictions. This is because we can know with great certainty what a population might be like in 30 years simply by looking at how many births we have today. This leverages an epistemic certainty that simply does not exist for all other types of sociological trend analysis.

The demographic picture for the West, and for Japan, and for China, too, is profoundly disturbing. 2.1 births per woman are necessary for “replacement rate”, which means simply holding ground. The “Christianized” elements of every single Western country are around 1.3. Note that throughout the entire course of human history few cultures have ever survived when birthrates fall below 1.8. None have survived when they’ve fallen to 1.3.

The United States would be at 1.3 except for Hispanic immigration which pushes the number up to 2.1 – replacement rate. At present the only two groups of significance with truly robust demographic growth in the United States are the Mormons and the Menonite sects, who weigh in at around 8 births per woman or so.

We can philosophize about how this stunning reversal, almost unseen in history, occurred among the “boomer” generation born starting in 1948, but the cold hard fact is that this reversal has happened regardless of how we afix the cause.

A demographic contraction along this scale has occurred in the West once before, and it resulted in the period known as the Dark Ages. During this period the Christian Church was left standing as the sole keeper and preservation agent of the remnants of the western cultural inheritance from ancient Rome and Greece.

My guess is the same sort of thing will happen again. Western power and influence is about to implode. Again, accross Europe it already has. It is just a matter of time before the ramifications of this are realized by the populace. A “back to the basics” sort of Great Awakening will likely take place within the next 50 years, or western culture will vanish altogether. In either event what will emerge from its ashes several hundred years from now will look very different than what we recognize of it today.

And, yes, it will take several hundred years (again, demographics bear this out. It takes 100 years to recover from sliding to a 1.8 births per woman rate). My suspicion is that the Church will be the leader and the cultural preservation agent once again.

But that’s just a hunch, an educated guess. The cold fact is that we in the west are in for a wild ride; and it breaks my heart that my kids and future grandkids (if I am indeed blessed with them - cross my fingers) have got this inheritance which is so much bleaker than what I had.
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On demographics true, but remember with respect to China, and the one child policy, many families abort their child if they find out it’s female in the womb. They want a son (India allows this too I think) - one result of the Abortion On Demand policies. What happens thirty years from now when the next generation turns out to have an incredible male:female ration of 2:1, let’s say hypothetically. What kind of society does that become? Ask a pro-abortionist on what grounds they could object to abortions of this kind. Its a woman’s body so, using their logic, how can a pro-abortionist dictate to a woman whether or not her abortion is allowed?

On Japan, I remember reading an article in First Things no less about the coming of Japan to Christianity and how close it was. Well, I haven’t seen it.

On the U.S. I think we have to be absolutely upfront about the current Western culture and Hollywood and the extremely iniquitous effect it is having. The culture must be sick when movies like SAW, of which I’ve only seen previews, show apparently every sick type of physical torture possible. Kids watch this. Hollywood, for all intents and purposes, has basically decided against Catholicism (even though they know after The Passion movie that Americans in their millions would watch spiritually edifying religious films). So what could possibly trump money in the heads of Hollywood studio houses? Jesus Christ, I assume.

I hope I’m not being too prosaic or simpleminded :shrug:with the explanations as I see them.
 
KyivAndrew said:
On demographics true, but remember with respect to China, and the one child policy, many families abort their child if they find out it’s female in the womb. They want a son (India allows this too I think) - one result of the Abortion On Demand policies. What happens thirty years from now when the next generation turns out to have an incredible male:female ration of 2:1, let’s say hypothetically. What kind of society does that become? Ask a pro-abortionist on what grounds they could object to abortions of this kind. Its a woman’s body so, using their logic, how can a pro-abortionist dictate to a woman whether or not her abortion is allowed?
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Yes, my friend, and I did count China among the demographically doomed. I said that their meteoric rise to industrial prominence would be followed by an equally spectacular implosion. That’s due to their 4-2-1 problem, towards which you hint. The One Child Policy causes it - 4 grandparents, 2 parents, 1 child. That’s a self-inflicted demographic death of geometric proportions. They’ve shot themselves in the foot.
On Japan, I remember reading an article in First Things no less about the coming of Japan to Christianity and how close it was. Well, I haven’t seen it.
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Japan is already dead. Already one of their large corporations, I think it was Mazda, gave all its workers a day off and asked them to go home and make babies. The hollowing out of Japanese cities has begun already.
On the U.S. I think we have to be absolutely upfront about the current Western culture and Hollywood and the extremely iniquitous effect it is having. The culture must be sick when movies like SAW, of which I’ve only seen previews, show apparently every sick type of physical torture possible. Kids watch this. Hollywood, for all intents and purposes, has basically decided against Catholicism (even though they know after The Passion movie that Americans in their millions would watch spiritually edifying religious films). So what could possibly trump money in the heads of Hollywood studio houses? Jesus Christ, I assume.
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I hope I’m not being too prosaic or simpleminded :shrug:with the explanations as I see them.
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Well I hardly think you’re being prosaic or simpleminded! I agree that Hollywood has a negative effect. They do not bear sole responsibility for this situation, however. They are the canaries in the coal mine, in my view.
 
I don’t think the Church has failed, but society has changed so much in recent decades I can see why others might think that the Church is failing. But remember the cyclical nature of history. The writer Salman Rushdie told Bill Moyers on the latter’s On Faith and Reason program on PBS some years ago that he could not have forseen the rise in Islamic fundamentalism around the world as a young man of Muslim background growing up in India in the 1960s. I have heard similar statements from virtually every Muslim that I have ever met who remembers how things were prior to the Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979. Prior to this, many of the “revolutions” in the Islamic world were socialist or at least socialistically-inspired (e.g., George Habash and his Marxist PFLP, Qadafi’s Libya, the Ba’ath in Iraq, etc). Now, it seems like the pendulum has swung the other way around, at least to an outside observer like me.

So demographics may be as they are, but they can’t in and of themselves predict shifts in the ideological trajectories of the societies in which they take place, and such a shift, or rather a complete and irreversible revolution, is what is necessary to “save” Western Christianity, if it is in fact worth saving.

Not to sound like a Marxist myself or anything… 😃
 
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but…the ratio’s mentioned by Andrew and mystagogia would be tragic as they say if it weren’t for the technologies and ionstitutions developed lately that are ‘planned’ to control human reproduction. Correction, I think the proper term will be ‘production’. Remember the population explosion? Like no one was smart eneogh to know it wasn’t about numbers of people but logistics and the distribution of technology. Look also at the socialistic form of governing that seems to be a requirement for this distribution. How is the U.S. involved? It all started here. We saw it birthing in us as the world’s salvific economy and strong arm for anyone who wished to partake. With the distorted sense of prophetic importance inherited from a ‘blessed’ land and the prevailing protestant mindset, we went about spreading democracy with self righteous abandon. Unfortunately our national form of christianity lacked a grounded traditional foundation so we succumbed to a utilitarian morality. Like frogs in a pot of water slowly coming to a boil we became pagans before we knew it. Still self righteous but now an idolatrous nation that subconsciously views our humanity as another product to roll off of our assembly lines. We package us, we market us, and we are selling us. We began thinking we were spreading a form of christianity but are finding out that we are handing out a tool with the devils hand on it’s handle. Cain’s offering of the ‘produce of the earth’ was rejected , unfortunately the produce on the plate offered today is us.
 
The forces of evil control most of the worlds media…opinion makers…take a look at the classic movie channel…and read the description of the film…in most cases hollyweird glorified prostituties,bank robbers,convicts etc and attacked fathers,clergymen etc…look at the recent reports of high budgeted hate films like DaVinci code etc…and how right after this hate film was premiered,the word.'code’was used over and over again on the history channel and shows…to subliminally imply that the film was correct! Yes Christianity is under attack on all fronts…anyone with half a brain knows of the brutal attacks in china,our beloved trading partner,against practicing Christians…and soon a hates crime law will come into affect that will all but outlaw Christianity in this nation…for most of what the Bible declared as sin will no longer be tolerated in america.!!! Remember,in a secular humanistic society,the winners are the corporations ,for if earth is all there is then why not max out ones credit card,buy all the trinkets the corps want us to buy …you see the picture…The shadow of the cross casts its reflection more and more on this once great land…after all ,over 50 million abortions hardly reveal a caring loving culture of the innocent…
 
I believe that Good conquers all. I believe the Catholic church will prevail and that God will be triumphant in the end.
The church shall be victorious in the end. Christ said this to Peter, " You are the rock upon which I will build my church. Not even the fires of Hell will prevail against it!"
Trust Christ’s words:)
 
We Catholics are Christians because we believe and follow the teachings of Christ Jesus. Believing in Christ is not enough, Satan believes in the existence of God and we know where he is. If we took Jesus as our role model and do our best, (He expects from us to do our best only) in knowing Him personally more and more every day and transmit that Jesus who lives inside of us, to the rest of the world, we are winning the battle. He already won the victory for us.
Jesus died on Good Friday but He resurrected on Easter Sunday. By dying He restored our life by rising He destroyed our death and that alone is enough for me to believe that those Christians who practice the real love of Christ will triumph.
By living or doing only what it feels right, I believe is not correct. Today, I may feel like I do not want to pray. Before God, this means nothing, He’s not asking me to pray when I feel we like it but, precisely when I feel not liking it; there’s the merit.
We’re not here to condemn anyone but to emit our prudent judgment by admonishing the sinner, as an act of mercy because we desire to everyone go to heaven. If we get defensive when someone points out our errors, is precisely because our conscience is telling us that we’re wrong. This is because we’re not perfect, we came to this world with sin. But if someone does it with love, it does not mean he/she’s judging. Judgment belongs to God alone but in our journey, we must warn each other of our sins. I fall but with God’s mercy I get up and will finish the race (just as He did in the way to Golgotha) and wait in joyful hope until He calls me to His merciful judgment.
By frequent confession and communion, alone with adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and doing our best in keeping His commandments (specially, His second in importance, “love one another as I have loved you.”) I know Christianity will triumph. The Church Jesus found upon His Rock -Peter will triumph!! He promised it.

God’s name is Mercy, also He is very simple. 😉
 
The shadow of the cross casts its reflection more and more on this once great land…after all ,over 50 million abortions hardly reveal a caring loving culture of the innocent…

Amen. And it begins to look like another 50 million unborn children are scheduled to be executed. What happened to the secularist claim that they would travel the high moral road against Christianity? Billions to protect other species; not one penny to protect the human being in the mother’s womb from the killer’s knife.
 
For those who believe the Church is under seige:

Recently the Connecticut state assembly introduced a bill in committee to strip Catholic bishops and priests of the right to administer their dioceses, and to require that lay boards elected for that purpose would wrest the administrative authority from the clergy. Fortunately, the bill was tabled and does not appear to be going anywhere.

Several years ago in connecticut another bill was introduced and failed: a bill to remove the seal of the confessional for Catholic priests. Connecticut seemes to be determined to test the First Amendment by interfering witrh the practice and government of the Catholic Church.

What is surprising is not that these bills were not passed, but that someone had the nerve to introduce them in the first place … thinking the Catholic Church so weak that some of its most basic practices can be trampled by legislative fiat.
 
Christianity doesn’t control the Western World like it used to because of secularism…
 
It is trials and tribulations that turn people to the Lord. Right now we have a turbulent world - a breeding ground for rebirth in Faith.

Ireland has been through a decade or longer of prosperity as never before. They were importing skills from all over the world to keep up with the demand. Now with the global economic downturn many people have lost their jobs and I saw an article in our local Catholic weekly newspaper that attendance at Mass has gone up 30%. This is likely to repeat itself all over the world.

Furthermore people are becoming aware of the importance of family and the Church is a good place to foster this.

We must also pray for conversions, vocations, our leaders in the Church (Pope and Magisterium) and always for the poor and the suffering. We need to network with our neighbours and friends and extend a helping hand whenever needed. We must also include lonely people. There is a great deal of loniness in our world, especially in big cities. Community is vital for the survival of mankind - sharing, caring, reaching out - we all need community.

Our God taught us to love and he commanded us to love - love Him and our Neighbour.

Cinette:)
 
These last two posts are full of hope, and rightly so. Christianity triumphed in the 4th Century because the roman empire had exhausted itself with hedonism and warfare. We may see that phenomenon repeat itself before long … the great pendulum effect. The Church will be the only antidote to the moral diseases of our day.

Science certainly isn’t going to pull that rabit out of its hat!
 
KyivAndrew said:
On demographics true, but remember with respect to China, and the one child policy, many families abort their child if they find out it’s female in the womb. They want a son (India allows this too I think) - one result of the Abortion On Demand policies. What happens thirty years from now when the next generation turns out to have an incredible male:female ration of 2:1, let’s say hypothetically. What kind of society does that become? Ask a pro-abortionist on what grounds they could object to abortions of this kind. Its a woman’s body so, using their logic, how can a pro-abortionist dictate to a woman whether or not her abortion is allowed?

On Japan, I remember reading an article in First Things no less about the coming of Japan to Christianity and how close it was. Well, I haven’t seen it.

On the U.S. I think we have to be absolutely upfront about the current Western culture and Hollywood and the extremely iniquitous effect it is having. The culture must be sick when movies like SAW, of which I’ve only seen previews, show apparently every sick type of physical torture possible.
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It was a pretty sick film - I saw the whole thing (only the first of them, though).​

I think the USA has done a lot to debauch Europe, partly by having a lower culture. Or is that unfair ? Europe has had its share of vulgar money-adorers, but the USA seems to treat such repellent attitudes as admirable. Which goes a long way to counterbalance the virtues that are clearly very much alive in the US. 😦 Of course, the US has not been helped by being a sort of dumping-ground for some of the more lunatic ideas current at various times in (for example) England & Scotland.
Kids watch this. Hollywood, for all intents and purposes, has basically decided against Catholicism (even though they know after The Passion movie that Americans in their millions would watch spiritually edifying religious films). So what could possibly trump money in the heads of Hollywood studio houses? Jesus Christ, I assume.

I hope I’m not being too prosaic or simpleminded :shrug:with the explanations as I see them.
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Of course Christianity will triumph, I believe it will be after the trend by the current administration to turn us in to an Islamic Nation. Actually I believe they want to erase God from every aspect of American Life.
Young parents in America, teach your kids about martyrdom or teach them the Koran.
We Americans have developed to such a degree that we will accept anything as long as it doesn’t effect out comfort level.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

It was a pretty sick film - I saw the whole thing (only the first of them, though).​

I think the USA has done a lot to debauch Europe, partly by having a lower culture. Or is that unfair ? Europe has had its share of vulgar money-adorers, but the USA seems to treat such repellent attitudes as admirable. Which goes a long way to counterbalance the virtues that are clearly very much alive in the US. 😦 Of course, the US has not been helped by being a sort of dumping-ground for some of the more lunatic ideas current at various times in (for example) England & Scotland.
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No you are right on American culture’s influences on Europe - not edifying. But again, I do not find certain French films with precocious progressives as characters struggling quite verbosely and internally with every possible sexual situation and adultery edifying either.

Be that as it may, I note of late much word in the English press with respect to the young in Britain being discarded of moral oversight from their parents and becoming, what is it - yobs?
I’ve read accounts how this must stem from England’s lack of its once great empire status, but how does that explain psychologically all the late-night drinking and troublemaking. Heck, I always thought Steven Gerrard was a role model. (drinking may also result because of Chelsea’s horrendous last minute loss to Barcelona, which I kind of understand).🙂

British Catholic historian Michael Burleigh has commented on how one could never find the religiosity of the USA and the American Bible Belt finding an equivalent in England or Europe. Why is that so? Is it because the secular elite in Europe has drummed into their citizens’ heads the battles that resulted from religion in ages old? Or is it the thought among European elites, which I surely believe exists, that religion kind of belongs more to the primitive cultures of the cowboys over the sea. I think the EU elites really see it this way.

The French, o.k., religion or not, they strike and vandalize;), and with Eric Hobsbawm’s assured support, but what has happened of France, the land of Lourdes. With Spain, obviously Zapatero is not making life easier.

I think with Europe, it partly has to do with the sheer unimaginable MegaDestruction it suffered during the 20th Century and both wars and the questioning of God. However, I always recall my parents’ stories when they, in fleeing both Nazi and Soviet oppression during WW2, found the absolute emptiness of the churches in Germany and even Bavaria right after WW2 amazing as they waited in DP camps. 2-3 people for a Sunday Mass. The Germans under Hitler lost God and it appears to have stayed that way under obviously much better circumstances for the German people now. I may be wrong.

I believe the secular left of Sartre and Russel and all the rest of the Euroleft made religion radically unchique, especially since one could automatically get revolutionary chique by becoming a Marxist, Leninist. These political religions supplanted the Real Religion and tried hard to make Christianity look retrograde.

With Europe now, the emphasis is always on secular progression and continual progess and not leaving any room for faith.

This is just my quick, late-night and therefore tired reading. I’m not European so probably wrong.
 
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