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BoomerangToo
Guest
I always wondered about this. Seems Scandinavian countries are very non-religious. Why do you suppose that is?
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
Disdain for organized religion is definitely a thing in the UK, I’m a practicing Catholic and even I feel some disdain from time to time.
I think a lot of the sustainability of organized churches over the years is more due to increased life expectancy, anecdotally I don’t see a whole lot of faith being passed down generations.
I think a lot of the sustainability of organized churches over the years is more due to increased life expectancy, anecdotally I don’t see a whole lot of faith being passed down generations.
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TK421
Guest
Europe was ground zero for the religious revolutions and conflicts between Catholics and protestants, and then ground zero again for three different World Wars if you also include Napoleon’s Reign of Terror.
Protestantism set the stage for non-religious people or nominal Christians to become so despising towards their own history. It was through protestant propaganda of the 16th century coming off the press that spread hyperbolic views towards the Inquisition, the Papacy, and the Crusades. Those highly negative views towards Christian history that continue to the present day were originally indoctrinated into the culture by Christians, not by secularists. A lot of Voltaire’s ammunition during the French Revolution was - ironically - simply repackaged propaganda from the previous two centuries.
Personally, as an American looking from the outside, I haven’t written off Europe. I look at it like an alcoholic who needs to hit bottom in order to begin recovery. After several decades of cynicism, hedonism, emptiness, and an overall void of meaning in life, I personally share Pope Benedict’s optimism that Europe will over time experience a partial restoration of the Christian faith, and it will arguably be more pure than the old days when it had great wealth & power.
I’m a little more curious where the US is going to go. We have a strong secular movement too, but then we also have lots of evangelicals thrown into the unstable mix. I have a bad feeling in my gut that cooler heads are not going to prevail.
Protestantism set the stage for non-religious people or nominal Christians to become so despising towards their own history. It was through protestant propaganda of the 16th century coming off the press that spread hyperbolic views towards the Inquisition, the Papacy, and the Crusades. Those highly negative views towards Christian history that continue to the present day were originally indoctrinated into the culture by Christians, not by secularists. A lot of Voltaire’s ammunition during the French Revolution was - ironically - simply repackaged propaganda from the previous two centuries.
Personally, as an American looking from the outside, I haven’t written off Europe. I look at it like an alcoholic who needs to hit bottom in order to begin recovery. After several decades of cynicism, hedonism, emptiness, and an overall void of meaning in life, I personally share Pope Benedict’s optimism that Europe will over time experience a partial restoration of the Christian faith, and it will arguably be more pure than the old days when it had great wealth & power.
I’m a little more curious where the US is going to go. We have a strong secular movement too, but then we also have lots of evangelicals thrown into the unstable mix. I have a bad feeling in my gut that cooler heads are not going to prevail.
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Isca
Guest
Catholicism is a casual part of everyday life in Italy. I say ‘casual’ because people of all ages respect the church, but Mass attendance seems to be patchy and sparse.
It’s the norm to go into a bank, the post office, the accountant’s office and see a big crucifix on the wall. The mayor and the police walk alongside the priest during the (many) religious processions. There’s no feeling of a divorce between church and state, which is interesting. The church in our village is always open, you see elderly ladies popping in and out, but come Sunday and there’s not that many in the pews.
It’s the norm to go into a bank, the post office, the accountant’s office and see a big crucifix on the wall. The mayor and the police walk alongside the priest during the (many) religious processions. There’s no feeling of a divorce between church and state, which is interesting. The church in our village is always open, you see elderly ladies popping in and out, but come Sunday and there’s not that many in the pews.
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Vouthon
Guest
Across Europe as a whole, taken as an aggregate, 72% of the population is said to be Christian.
But when you take a look at particular countries, the picture that emerges is extremely variable, with countries like the Netherlands and Estonia having a majority of atheists/agnostics. However these are small states, so their extreme irreligiosity doesn’t greatly affect the overall trend.
Christianity is predominantly being held up by states with Catholic and Orthodox cultures. Protestant Europe has practically “died”, for all intents and purposes.
Consider the results from the 2015 “Religion in the European Union” poll (the EU is just a subset of the wider continent):
Catholic (45.3%)
Protestant (11.1%)
Orthodox (9.6%)
Other Christian (5.6%)
Non-believer/Agnostic (13.6%)
Atheist (10.4%)
Muslim (1.8%)
Other religion (2.6%)
As you can see, taken together (24%) there are far more atheists/agnostics/non-believers than their are Protestants. Even if you add the 5% non-denominational “other Christians” to the Protestant total.
Breaking some of the results down into individual member states, we find that 92.9% Greeks claimed to be Eastern Orthodox in 2015 with 79% saying they believe in God in 2010 and 95.0% Maltese claimed to be Catholic in 2015, with 94% saying they believed in God in 2010. Compare those tallies with Sweden, where 36.5% described themselves as Protestant in 2015 and 18% claimed to believe in God in 2010.
The Scandinavian countries are highly atheistic or irreligious.
If it wasn’t for Catholicism, which manages to linger on as a strong cultural force in a number of traditionally Catholic nations, religion truly would be “dead” in Europe.
In the UK, Christianity has little meaning in the everyday lives of most Brits. We tend to be among the irreligious cohort, with widespread indifference or even disdain towards organised religion.
I think its worth keeping in mind what Ben Ryan, a researcher for Theos, said last year:
But when you take a look at particular countries, the picture that emerges is extremely variable, with countries like the Netherlands and Estonia having a majority of atheists/agnostics. However these are small states, so their extreme irreligiosity doesn’t greatly affect the overall trend.
Christianity is predominantly being held up by states with Catholic and Orthodox cultures. Protestant Europe has practically “died”, for all intents and purposes.
Consider the results from the 2015 “Religion in the European Union” poll (the EU is just a subset of the wider continent):
Catholic (45.3%)
Protestant (11.1%)
Orthodox (9.6%)
Other Christian (5.6%)
Non-believer/Agnostic (13.6%)
Atheist (10.4%)
Muslim (1.8%)
Other religion (2.6%)
As you can see, taken together (24%) there are far more atheists/agnostics/non-believers than their are Protestants. Even if you add the 5% non-denominational “other Christians” to the Protestant total.
Breaking some of the results down into individual member states, we find that 92.9% Greeks claimed to be Eastern Orthodox in 2015 with 79% saying they believe in God in 2010 and 95.0% Maltese claimed to be Catholic in 2015, with 94% saying they believed in God in 2010. Compare those tallies with Sweden, where 36.5% described themselves as Protestant in 2015 and 18% claimed to believe in God in 2010.
The Scandinavian countries are highly atheistic or irreligious.
If it wasn’t for Catholicism, which manages to linger on as a strong cultural force in a number of traditionally Catholic nations, religion truly would be “dead” in Europe.
In the UK, Christianity has little meaning in the everyday lives of most Brits. We tend to be among the irreligious cohort, with widespread indifference or even disdain towards organised religion.
I think its worth keeping in mind what Ben Ryan, a researcher for Theos, said last year:
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anon65111186
Guest
That is quite interesting, I have always wondering about the syllabus of errors by Pope Pius IX, who condemned the separation of church and state. There are many countries in Europe in which Catholicism is the state religion.
How much power does the Pope have on the secular Italian government?
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magnusbar
Guest
Not many countries with state religion, no. Catholicism in Europe: The Vatican, Monaco, Liechtenstein and Malta. Protestant: England, Iceland and Denmark. Orthodox: Greece
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
It will be better and more pure if it comes from the will of the people in a “we want God” way, and not from the state imposing this church or that church on the inhabitants of a region.
I’m not and have never been an evangelical, but I think they have great gifts of enthusiasm and zeal, gifts I’m sorry they took away from the Catholic Church. I don’t think it’s bad to be an evangelical, and if they help keep some semblance of God-fearingness in the USA then good for them.
I am disturbed when the so-called intelligent or educated people in USA rush to denounce evangelicals as a bunch of stupid bigots, while seeming to believe in precious little themselves, other than science.
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whyeyeman
Guest
Yes. In the UK, you would be lucky to find a person under 40 who regularly goes to church. The children are breathtakingly ignorant of even the basic teachings of Christianity.
It is dying and it is being replaced by Islam.
It is dying and it is being replaced by Islam.
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anon65111186
Guest
Okay, my mistake, to me it seems many relative to other continents which have none, but considering all 50 states it would be very few. You’re leaving out Swiss cantons though.
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
What’s sad is I bet a lot of these folks grandparents were practicing Christians, what happened in the last few generations?
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AngelusDomini
Guest
If you had asked ‘Is Christianity dead in the UK?’ 50 years ago you would probably have received similar answers as those already listed.
I’m certain that there will be more signs of a return to faith sooner or later. People are becoming fed up with a diet of consumerism and secularism. Scratch the surface and there are plenty of people who still nominally identify as Christian - but it’s up to the Church (and that means everyone in the Church) to go out and get them back into the pews.
Unfortunately, the politically correct agenda means that many children no longer know even the most well known of Bible stories and so are becoming culturally bereft in art, literature, and cultural traditions also. Perhaps this would be a good starting point - exhibitions hosted by cathedrals/churches with commentaries. Processions outside (which do still happen and are gaining popularity) but with leaflets explaining what it’s about to give to people on the way. The Devil can do a lot with complacency and a defeatist attitude; I’m glad that parishes are waking up to this fact.
I’m certain that there will be more signs of a return to faith sooner or later. People are becoming fed up with a diet of consumerism and secularism. Scratch the surface and there are plenty of people who still nominally identify as Christian - but it’s up to the Church (and that means everyone in the Church) to go out and get them back into the pews.
Unfortunately, the politically correct agenda means that many children no longer know even the most well known of Bible stories and so are becoming culturally bereft in art, literature, and cultural traditions also. Perhaps this would be a good starting point - exhibitions hosted by cathedrals/churches with commentaries. Processions outside (which do still happen and are gaining popularity) but with leaflets explaining what it’s about to give to people on the way. The Devil can do a lot with complacency and a defeatist attitude; I’m glad that parishes are waking up to this fact.
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ATraveller
Guest
If one would count it as Christian, I wouldn’t discount the growing influence of Mormonism. It’s growing.
I believe evolution and the conclusions on climate change are legitimate. The thing is, many of the ‘intelligent’ and ‘educated’ people don’t actually understand those themselves but have blind faith in whatever is supposedly going to disprove God or spite people they happen not to like. It has little to do with them actually being more intelligent or educated.
I disagree with many of my fellow Evangelicals but I don’t look at them as lesser as many are doing. I find making evolution a litmus test a stupid thing. Does it really matter on a practical everyday basis? I compare this to the atomic model. The image of electrons orbiting the nucleus is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! But does it matter on a practical everyday basis that the vast majority of people are wrong? I don’t think so.
A good number of the ‘educated intelligent’ don’t believe in science but ‘science’.
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Kei
Guest
Just the other day a fellow from Spain had commented that he and all his friends don’t even consider God a question, and just assume against His existence, and he has done so ever since he could think. Says it’s evolution.
That where he’s from the only ones who believe in God are elderly or young children.
Made me so very sad, he said this after he clarified he had a Catholic education, that that is what is common in Spain. I imagine it is a watered down and not very rigorous education given what he has said.
Though it is sad, I see reason for hope.
I believe we may still be in the “minor chastisement” phase, which means there is a revival of Faith.
Comments here indicate protestantism is pretty much done for in Europe, but that Catholicism is still there, though small. This may play a significant part. Many are believing it is more important to come to their traditions, are turning away from a brave new world now that they see some of its failings. If we could gather around in unity under the Catholic Faith, wouldn’t that be amazing?
That where he’s from the only ones who believe in God are elderly or young children.
Made me so very sad, he said this after he clarified he had a Catholic education, that that is what is common in Spain. I imagine it is a watered down and not very rigorous education given what he has said.
Though it is sad, I see reason for hope.
I believe we may still be in the “minor chastisement” phase, which means there is a revival of Faith.
Comments here indicate protestantism is pretty much done for in Europe, but that Catholicism is still there, though small. This may play a significant part. Many are believing it is more important to come to their traditions, are turning away from a brave new world now that they see some of its failings. If we could gather around in unity under the Catholic Faith, wouldn’t that be amazing?
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ErJ
Guest
As heart-breaking as it is, Christianity is slowly vanishing from the Western and Nordic Europe…It won’t die though, but its impact is basically gone.
With all the communism’s impact in the past, the Eastern Europe seems to be holding the best. I live in Lithuania, which is considered Baltic & Eastern Europe and Christianity still has major impact on people’s lives. The churches are always full on Sundays. However our neighbors Latvia and Estonia seem to be less and less religious in general…
With all the communism’s impact in the past, the Eastern Europe seems to be holding the best. I live in Lithuania, which is considered Baltic & Eastern Europe and Christianity still has major impact on people’s lives. The churches are always full on Sundays. However our neighbors Latvia and Estonia seem to be less and less religious in general…
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CatholicGearSolid
Guest
Not everywhere, thankfully.
Although most governments are trying really hard to destroy Christianity through all possible means.
Although most governments are trying really hard to destroy Christianity through all possible means.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
You survived the transition! 
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Baguette
Guest
Thanks for all the reply though!
It gives me insight on how the faith is struggling there. If I can say something from where I am from, well that’s quite hard.
I came from Indonesia, and yeah that’s a country with the most muslim population in the world (88% of it’s people are muslims).
Christianity does struggle here though, it’s really hard for us to build churches because some radical and textual fundamentalist muslim are taking advantage of their majority factor to milk as much money from us. Most people here are pretty religious, maybe that’s because the country’s constitution acknowledged God and consider relationship with him a must.
As with Europe, the young people these days are getting more irreligious because they have been more and more influenced by western culture, in fact most Indonesians like western culture a lot more than their own culture.
I know a lot of people only going to churches every Christmas and Easter but every weekend the churches are still full.
And like the US ,we got diehard protestants here (protestants outnumber catholics here). Some are really anti-catholic and are not afraid to debate you and will do anything to win. The condition that I’m describing is accurate to the island of Java, I don’t really know how is Christianity going in the eastern part of Indonesia.
Well that’s what I can say about the condition of Christianity in my country, I’m sorry it’s quite out of topic, because Indonesia is in southeast Asia, but I hope my info can be helpful at giving you some insight.
It gives me insight on how the faith is struggling there. If I can say something from where I am from, well that’s quite hard.
I came from Indonesia, and yeah that’s a country with the most muslim population in the world (88% of it’s people are muslims).
Christianity does struggle here though, it’s really hard for us to build churches because some radical and textual fundamentalist muslim are taking advantage of their majority factor to milk as much money from us. Most people here are pretty religious, maybe that’s because the country’s constitution acknowledged God and consider relationship with him a must.
As with Europe, the young people these days are getting more irreligious because they have been more and more influenced by western culture, in fact most Indonesians like western culture a lot more than their own culture.
I know a lot of people only going to churches every Christmas and Easter but every weekend the churches are still full.
And like the US ,we got diehard protestants here (protestants outnumber catholics here). Some are really anti-catholic and are not afraid to debate you and will do anything to win. The condition that I’m describing is accurate to the island of Java, I don’t really know how is Christianity going in the eastern part of Indonesia.
Well that’s what I can say about the condition of Christianity in my country, I’m sorry it’s quite out of topic, because Indonesia is in southeast Asia, but I hope my info can be helpful at giving you some insight.
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goyim
Guest
I haven’t read all the replies, so forgive me if I repeat a point.
It would really depend on the country in Europe. For example, In Ireland, where the Catholic Church was traditionally very strong in membership, is seeing massive numbers of people leaving the church. In a country of 4.7 million, the main seminary, had 7 seminarians last year.
Then if you look at Poland, you might see a strengthening of certain Catholic practices. But again, as they become more western, people tend to leave the church.
That being said, an interesting phenomenon, in European Christianity, is that the more Orthodox branches of Christianity. Being Eastern Orthodox and the like as well as Catholicism, are seeing an upsurge in numbers in the last few years. For example, if you take a trip to a cathedral in Paris, you may be surprised to see many, young Lawyers, doctors, Business men and Engineers, mainly men, populating the pews.
The same is the case in eastern europe, where the Eastern Orthodox Church, in places such as Romania has seen an explosion in young people attending their services.
To add to this, in recent years, the number of Adult Baptisms in Catholicism, as begun to grow in the last couple of years, as have the number of reversions. The biggest demographic of christian converts across Europe is coming from Islamic migrants, who have begun to enter the countries.
From what I can see over here, in Europe, we are approaching the lowest points of Christianity in Europe, with regards to shear numbers. However, the Catholic community that is beginning to blossom, across Europe is a far stronger Catholicism than we have had in many decades. The same goes for Eastern Orthodox, even more so.
It has led me to the conclusion that there is something driving this increase over the last few years. If you ask any recent Revert or Convert, you might get some mixed approaches to views. But you will see a resounding amount of homogeneity. Young men especially, have become enchanted with the ideas of traditional christianity. Of the many, new and recent converts to Catholicism that I know of, nearly all enjoy latin in the mass. Nearly all are critical of the interpretations of Vatican 2 and most, are beginning to reject the weak pandering, to modern day cultural ideas, that we have been seeing for the past 60 years.
In short, Christianity is indeed, still decreasing in numbers of faithful. But lack of structure, meaning and discipline in many young men, is leading to a backlash against these ideas, in search of true meaning. Which is why, seemingly, the more orthodox the christianity, the more pious the followers tend to be.
It would really depend on the country in Europe. For example, In Ireland, where the Catholic Church was traditionally very strong in membership, is seeing massive numbers of people leaving the church. In a country of 4.7 million, the main seminary, had 7 seminarians last year.
Then if you look at Poland, you might see a strengthening of certain Catholic practices. But again, as they become more western, people tend to leave the church.
That being said, an interesting phenomenon, in European Christianity, is that the more Orthodox branches of Christianity. Being Eastern Orthodox and the like as well as Catholicism, are seeing an upsurge in numbers in the last few years. For example, if you take a trip to a cathedral in Paris, you may be surprised to see many, young Lawyers, doctors, Business men and Engineers, mainly men, populating the pews.
The same is the case in eastern europe, where the Eastern Orthodox Church, in places such as Romania has seen an explosion in young people attending their services.
To add to this, in recent years, the number of Adult Baptisms in Catholicism, as begun to grow in the last couple of years, as have the number of reversions. The biggest demographic of christian converts across Europe is coming from Islamic migrants, who have begun to enter the countries.
From what I can see over here, in Europe, we are approaching the lowest points of Christianity in Europe, with regards to shear numbers. However, the Catholic community that is beginning to blossom, across Europe is a far stronger Catholicism than we have had in many decades. The same goes for Eastern Orthodox, even more so.
It has led me to the conclusion that there is something driving this increase over the last few years. If you ask any recent Revert or Convert, you might get some mixed approaches to views. But you will see a resounding amount of homogeneity. Young men especially, have become enchanted with the ideas of traditional christianity. Of the many, new and recent converts to Catholicism that I know of, nearly all enjoy latin in the mass. Nearly all are critical of the interpretations of Vatican 2 and most, are beginning to reject the weak pandering, to modern day cultural ideas, that we have been seeing for the past 60 years.
In short, Christianity is indeed, still decreasing in numbers of faithful. But lack of structure, meaning and discipline in many young men, is leading to a backlash against these ideas, in search of true meaning. Which is why, seemingly, the more orthodox the christianity, the more pious the followers tend to be.
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