Is Christ's Divinity specifically a Catholic belief?

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TheresaEmilyAnn

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My boyfriend has been saying that Jesus is the Son of God, and not God Himself. That God would more be the Father part. As far as I can tell the arguments that can be used is:
  1. The Trinity - Which in my Catholic upbringing shows God to be of three parts - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All being of one God, such as St. Patrick showed with using the shamrock having three parts and being one plant. Now if a person believes in the trinity, then they should understand that it’s all one, making Jesus also God, or a part of God.
and 2) That Jesus was born a man, from a woman, Mary, and only later after he was resurrected that he became fully God. Also making him, in the end at least, God too.

Now with all my reasoning… I was wondering if my logic is coming from a specifically CATHOLIC point of view, and other Christian churches teach differently?
 
TheresaEmilyAnn said:
My boyfriend has been saying that Jesus is the Son of God, and not God Himself. That God would more be the Father part. As far as I can tell the arguments that can be used is:
  1. The Trinity - Which in my Catholic upbringing shows God to be of three parts - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All being of one God, such as St. Patrick showed with using the shamrock having three parts and being one plant. Now if a person believes in the trinity, then they should understand that it’s all one, making Jesus also God, or a part of God.
and 2) That Jesus was born a man, from a woman, Mary, and only later after he was resurrected that he became fully God. Also making him, in the end at least, God too.

Now with all my reasoning… I was wondering if my logic is coming from a specifically CATHOLIC point of view, and other Christian churches teach differently?
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All mainline Protestant churches believe in the divinity of Christ – God the Son as always being God, not only after resurrection. Fully human and fully God. (How does that work? Not sure our limited minds can understand.)
 
TheresaEmilyAnn said:
My boyfriend has been saying that Jesus is the Son of God, and not God Himself. That God would more be the Father part. As far as I can tell the arguments that can be used is:
  1. The Trinity - Which in my Catholic upbringing shows God to be of three parts - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All being of one God, such as St. Patrick showed with using the shamrock having three parts and being one plant. Now if a person believes in the trinity, then they should understand that it’s all one, making Jesus also God, or a part of God.
and 2) That Jesus was born a man, from a woman, Mary, and only later after he was resurrected that he became fully God. Also making him, in the end at least, God too.

Now with all my reasoning… I was wondering if my logic is coming from a specifically CATHOLIC point of view, and other Christian churches teach differently?
Click to expand...
Unitarians and Jehovah Witnesses are the two Religions that reject Christ’s divinity and are therefore considered to not be Christian by many Christians. Catholic’s accept Christ being divine as well as most all of the main Protestant/Evangelical denominations.

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last and there is no God besides me.’

Rev 1:17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one; and I was dead, and behold I am alive.

Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the governmentw ill rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace 7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, on the throne of David and over His kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousnes from then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

Notice how in the OT God was assuring His people that He would come as a man and yet still be fully God. It’s complex, I know, we all know it, but it’s truth.

Also, John states that Jesus existed before he did, and yet John is older… I could go on and on, but I’ll stop there for now. 🙂
 
EIF5A said:
All mainline Protestant churches believe in the divinity of Christ – God the Son as always being God, not only after resurrection. Fully human and fully God. (How does that work? Not sure our limited minds can understand.)
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The Father is greater than I.

Philip said "…show us the Father…

Jesus “…i am in the Father and the Father is in me”

Study the Church Fathers. Mainline Protestant churches should know by tracing back where the beliefs came from.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
The Father is greater than I.

Philip said "…show us the Father…

Jesus “…i am in the Father and the Father is in me”

Study the Church Fathers. Mainline Protestant churches should know by tracing back where the beliefs came from.

MJ
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I don’t understand your purpose in this reply. Did I make a heretical statement?
 
EIF5A said:
I don’t understand your purpose in this reply. Did I make a heretical statement?
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I’m just giving a general view of how we can understand Jesus is God and man. I was also focusing on mainline protestant churches and if they really trace back what they learned they would likely have to thank the Catholic church.

MJ
 
The Catholic Church teaches that Christ was fully God and fully human and was so from the moment of his conception.

Most Protestants believe the same. As you have seen, however, many Unitarians question the divinity of Christ.
 
No one who denies the Divinity of Christ can be called a Christian.

The Nicene Creed is an excellent summary of our faith in God.
 
By Catholic do you mean roman catholic belief? Or by catholic do mean the whole church? As the phrase was used before the schism and by the fathers? The Doctrine and idea certaintly isn’t limited to rome, in fact the greatest defenders of the trinity all came from the east, Athanasius, Gregory Nazianzus, Basil the great and etc (not to dismiss the importance of western fathers on the defence of the trinity mind you).

That being said I think you make a mistake in suggesting the trinity means god has three parts. What is a part but that which makes something whole? In terms of the persons perhaps that could be applied, the son is not the father. But on the level of the substance which the three persons compose of the word is improper. The Divine Substance which composes God, ineffeble, incomprehensible is inevitebly simply, there are no parts to divinity.

Concerning the ressurection and him “becoming” god, that sounds dangerously close to the apotheosis which some believed at the time but was not a Jewish belief nor would I say a belief of the early christians. Rather as Paul would say Christ was equal to God and humbled himself and then retook the glory he once had (this theme in particular is found in Phillipians, Hebrews and the Gospel of John). Jesus was not always a man, he was always god, but when he became man he gave up some of his divine perogatives. He became fully human and fully divine, each with their respective function (will) while remaining the same Jesus he always was.

Lastly all Christian churches, Orthodox, Oriental, Catholic, Protestant (Baptist, lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian and etc) would fully accept the same doctrine of the trinity. The only meaningful difference between these groups is of course that old contention about the procession of the holy spirit. The East typically saying From the father alone and the west saying from the father and the son.
 
This is the Lutheran view of the Person of Christ:

Lutherans call this the Communications of the Attributes in the Person Of Christ. Christ had two natures, his Divine Nature ( Person of the Eternal Logos Son of God and Second Person of the Holy Trinity. ) and His Human Nature ( Assumed from the Blessed Virgin Mary ). All this becomes the The Person Union of Christ - True God and True Man.
Each nature has its own essential characteristics, they are shared in the same Person. The Son of God is divine because He is eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-immortal.
The Divine Attributes ( Characteristics ) are: Eternal, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Immortal, Omniscient.
His Human Attributes ( Characteristics ) are: Was born, grew, lived, and aged. Lived in Judea. became tired, had to eat and sleep. Mortal, able to suffer and die, learned and grew in knowledge.
The Divine Attributes are essential to Christ’s Divine Nature and His Human Attributes are essential to His Human Nature for Christ to be God/man.
Divine Characteristics are transferred to the human nature are by virtue of the Personal Union. We can say Jesus the Man is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc., because He is the God-Man. So He could know people’s thoughts, perform miracles, etc., but the human characteristics are not transferred to the divine nature.
All that Jesus is - God and Man - works together for our salvation.
The two natures are truly and inseparably joined in the Person Union without being mingled, changed: unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably. Neither the flesh outside the Word nor the Word outside the flesh.
The attributes of the human nature and the attributes of the divine nature are shared in the same person but not essential to both natures. Each nature has its own essential attributes. ( Genus Idomaticum ),
The Divine attributes are transferred to the human nature by virtue of the Personal Union. But they never become an essential attribute of the human nature. The communication is strictly one way. ( Genus Majestaticum )
The full set of attributes work for our salvation. The redemption of mankind is accomplished by the theanthropic ( God-Man ) person of Jesus Christ. ( Genus Apotelesmaticum )
 
EIF5A said:
Fully human and fully God. (How does that work? Not sure our limited minds can understand.)
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I would like to take a shot at that there. So we believe in the Trinity. Now the Holy Spirit was and always will be with Christ. Even when He was a living man He was God. How could any man bear the weight of our sins without being God (in the flesh)? How could a mere man walk on water? Turn water to wine? Feed the multitudes not once, but twice? Jesus is God. God sent His Spirit into flesh and walked amongst us for our salvation and so we may praise God and His Mercy. Let us not forget there was so many pagan religions worshipping many gods. God said “Oh hell no” (Just kidding about that last part)
 
hn160 said:
This is the Lutheran view of the Person of Christ:

Lutherans call this the Communications of the Attributes in the Person Of Christ. Christ had two natures, his Divine Nature ( Person of the Eternal Logos Son of God and Second Person of the Holy Trinity. ) and His Human Nature ( Assumed from the Blessed Virgin Mary ). All this becomes the The Person Union of Christ - True God and True Man.
Each nature has its own essential characteristics, they are shared in the same Person. The Son of God is divine because He is eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-immortal.
The Divine Attributes ( Characteristics ) are: Eternal, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Immortal, Omniscient.
His Human Attributes ( Characteristics ) are: Was born, grew, lived, and aged. Lived in Judea. became tired, had to eat and sleep. Mortal, able to suffer and die, learned and grew in knowledge.
The Divine Attributes are essential to Christ’s Divine Nature and His Human Attributes are essential to His Human Nature for Christ to be God/man.
Divine Characteristics are transferred to the human nature are by virtue of the Personal Union. We can say Jesus the Man is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc., because He is the God-Man. So He could know people’s thoughts, perform miracles, etc., but the human characteristics are not transferred to the divine nature.
All that Jesus is - God and Man - works together for our salvation.
The two natures are truly and inseparably joined in the Person Union without being mingled, changed: unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably. Neither the flesh outside the Word nor the Word outside the flesh.
The attributes of the human nature and the attributes of the divine nature are shared in the same person but not essential to both natures. Each nature has its own essential attributes. ( Genus Idomaticum ),
The Divine attributes are transferred to the human nature by virtue of the Personal Union. But they never become an essential attribute of the human nature. The communication is strictly one way. ( Genus Majestaticum )
The full set of attributes work for our salvation. The redemption of mankind is accomplished by the theanthropic ( God-Man ) person of Jesus Christ. ( Genus Apotelesmaticum )
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I agree fully; well-documented 🙂
 
Pythons said:
What about a belief that affirms that Christ possessed divinity…
…With the caveat that the divinity ( Deity ) was conditionally His to keep.
…Provided He didn’t screw up and sin & if He had the divinity would have been extracted.

Such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh day Adventists believe.
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That is new to me. I thought that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus was St. Michael the Archangel. Where are these beliefs documented?
 
Elizium23 said:
That is new to me. I thought that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus was St. Michael the Archangel. Where are these beliefs documented?
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Seventh Day Adventists actually believe in the Trinity and therefore in the divinity of Christ. Jehovah’s Witnesses deny both the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. You shouldn’t mix and match these two, although they, along with the LDS, all grew out the Adventist movement of the mid 19th century and hold the belief that references to Michael are actually references to Christ. They don’t seem to distinguish between a Creator and his creatures. Michael was an angel, and therefore created. Christ is God and therefore not created. Therefore Christ cannot be Michael.
 
Pythons said:
What about a belief that affirms that Christ possessed divinity…
…With the caveat that the divinity ( Deity ) was conditionally His to keep.
…Provided He didn’t screw up and sin & if He had the divinity would have been extracted.

Such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh day Adventists believe.
Click to expand...
Seventh Day Adventists actually believe in the Trinity and therefore in the divinity of Christ. Jehovah’s Witnesses deny both the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. You shouldn’t mix and match these two, although they, along with the LDS, all grew out the Adventist movement of the mid 19th century and hold the belief that references to Michael are actually references to Christ. They don’t seem to distinguish between a Creator and his creatures. Michael was an angel, and therefore created. Christ is God and therefore not created. Therefore Christ cannot be Michael.
 
Elizium23 said:
That is new to me. I thought that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus was St. Michael the Archangel. Where are these beliefs documented?
Click to expand...
A Jehovah’s Witness “is” an Adventist…
…They are just not “Seventh Day” Adventists.

Ellen White, Review and Herald, Jan 14, 1909
We are to be partakers of knowledge. As I have seen pictures representing Satan coming to Christ in the wilderness of temptation in the form of a hideous monster, I have thought, How little the artists knew of the Bible! Before his fall, Satan was, next to Christ, the highest ANGEL in heaven
Haskell:
The angel Gabriel was sent to answer his prayer, and went to the prince of Persia, to persuade him to do this very thing. Being unable to do this, Michael, or Christ, came down to help Gabriel.
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That’s page 3, center column approximately in the middle.

docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/ALUG/ALUG19020226-V01-08__B.pdf
SDA Our Times:
The first prophecy was not only a promise of hope, but also a promise of warfare. The protagonists in this war would be the promised Seed (Michael or Christ) and the would-be usurper of Christ’s place (the Dragon or Satan). Both would be bruised in their fight, but the bruising of Christ would bring life eternal to those for whom He was bruised; but the bruising of Satan would be lethal and permanent.
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docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/BOT/BOT19600218-V76-04__C.pdf
Sabbath School Bible Lesson:
SUMMARY: In this lesson we have seen how a prophet in Babylon was concerned that God’s will should be accomplished. He fasted and prayed for three
full weeks. God graciously revealed Himself in the person of Michael or Christ, to assure him of God’s love and esteem.
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docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/SS/SS19870101-01__B.pdf

Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, page 104
Moses came under the dominion of death. If he had continued faithful, and his life had not been marred with that one transgression, in failing to give to God the glory of bringing water from the rock, he would have entered the Promised Land, and would have been translated to heaven without seeing death. Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses, came down from heaven

text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=TA&lang=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=104&QUERY=%22Michael+or+Christ%22&resultId=2

There are of course many more where those came from…
…But you get the idea.
 
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