Is coming to faith by argument and thinking truly possible?

[Genesis315]

As other have mentioned, faith is believing what God has revealed based on the authority of God the revealer. But we must use reason (with grace assisting) to believe that God exists and to determine where His revelation is to be found.

Unfortunately, in modern society, faith is now generally seen as belief based not on any evidence, but on a personal impulse or feeling (or simply on ethnic or cultural heritage) and is therefore immune to any rational critique.

 

[HarryStotle]

Ok I’ll try again.
Answer should be yes you can come to faith by reason alone, be it Christianity, Islam or Hinduism.

If you assume all three are equally reasonable and true.

Clearly they don’t have the same doctrinal beliefs and at least some of them contradict those from the other religious systems.

So why “should” it be “yes” that reason alone can take you to all of them?

Islam, for example, clearly is founded on the belief that God cannot be known because he is infinitely beyond human knowledge. Since he cannot be known, human beings are simply to submit to the practices (God’s will) outlined in the Qur’an and Hadiths.

Christianity claims God can be known because he has revealed himself in the man Jesus Christ. It also claims we will be transformed by God to share in his divinity and partake in the Beatific Vision, I.e., come to experience and know the intimate life and being of God.

Hinduism makes the claim that God, basically, IS all things and manifests “himself” in and through representations or forms, some of which are divine.

So there are fundamental differences in the belief systems than cannot all be true, some are more true than others.

It isn’t clear to me why you feel you need to restate my points in such a way that your version doesn’t reflect, at all, what I wrote.

Let my points stand on their own without rephrasing, thank you.

If you are unclear, ask for clarification. The problem with your restatements is that I may not have the time or inclination to respond, which makes it appear that I agree with your restatement when I actually don’t.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

If not, I have a boatload of other premises I know you won’t accept since we aren’t precisely strangers on these forums.

Yes. I hope you agree that premises should be obvious.
Now, specifically what premises do you think are obvious but others would not agree to them?
And what premises might another person postulate as obvious, but you would not agree to those?

I believe you have already stated in another thread that you don’t accept the principle of sufficient reason (PSR). The law of non-contradiction and the principle of proportionate causality are two others you may or may not agree with, especially if you deny the PSR.

The mere fact that axioms of logic are “not obvious” doesn’t necessarily reflect on potential problems with those. It may be the one not seeing their truth that has the problem.

There are scientific theorems and laws of physics that appear to be consistent and constant across the universe that aren’t “obvious” to everyone. So the presumption that premises need to be “obvious” isn’t at all true. They need to be self-evident in the sense that when fully understood they cannot be denied by a competently rational being.

 

[misstherese]

We can believe intellectually. But true faith comes when we are called to live out that faith, change our lives according to it. That is the gift that comes from God.

 

[ErraticFaith]

To be honest if your belief in something isn’t grounded in fact and reason you are probably part of the reason faith is dwindling in western society.

That sounds counter intuitive considering the world ‘faith’ but we live in a world guided by science and truth.

Saying you believe ‘just because’, is laughably dangerous nonsense.

On that note, I am Christian by logic/argument and reason alone yes. I have no room for fairy tales and non proofs in my debates and discussions with people.

Solely because there is no faster way to drive them from Jesus laughing and insulting along the way. I don’t doubt. Nor do I doubt the need for argument to convince others and rightfully so.

It has become a world of conmen with huge power and influence. Just look at the Episcopalians and Trudeau.

Arm yourself with argument and reason; or you have very little to distinguish yourself from fantasies and liars in the eyes of the public.

 

[CampionTheChampion]

Apologetics seeks to show through history and reason the truth of Christianity and defend it from objections.

Is coming to faith by argument and thinking truly possible?

It seemed to work for me. But it wasn’t reason alone. I was at a bad spot spiritually in my life and was praying some pretty desperate prayers. This left me wide open when I first came across serious, intellectual Catholics who knew what they were talking about.

 

[neophyte]

Apologetics seeks to show through history and reason the truth of Christianity and defend it from objections.

Is coming to faith by argument and thinking truly possible?

Argument and rationality is what made me become Catholic.

 

[adf417]

If we cannot reason our way to faith/truth then it should also be correct to say we cannot reason our way away from faith/truth. If we cannot reason our way away from faith then what force is responsible for the loss of congregates to the Christian faith? It surly cant be the lack of God’s inspiration or draw.

Peace!!!

 

[mdgspencer]

I came to faith in this way. I came across a Catholic pamphlet in a church pamphlet rack that convinced me in the truth of Catholicism. I won’t go over the arguments. It is true that faith comes from God. Then after this God gave me faith.

That was 60 years ago, and I still am happy to be a Catholic.

There are also famous examples of this. One of them was the conversion of Cardinal Newman.

 

[AlNg]

I am not sure if it is possible to reason your way to the Catholic faith. At least when I think about the millions of Muslims and the Jews who are convinced that they have the true religion. There have been some extremely intelligent Jews and Muslims and they are not budging from their beliefs. Actually, according to what I have been told, the official Shia belief is that all non-Muslims (including Roman Catholics) will go to eternal fire and damnation in hell. Even if their ignorance is invincible, they will still go to hell unless they convert. I understand that the Sunni Muslims are not so strict about this point. According to the Muslims, you should be able to reason your way to see that they have the true faith? Now I understand that there are 1.6 billion Muslims? That is a lot of people who insist that their religion is the one to follow.