Is confession to Jesus Christ as effectual as confession to a priest?

[Duane1966]

If I am a Christian filled with the Spirit and someone does something against me and I do not forgive them; the sin, or offense against me, remains. If I forgive them, the sin is absolved. Is this a just interpretation of this passage?

Actually no. The priest has the power to retain, we do not. We can forgive them, and we should whether they ask for it or not. But we cannot make them retain them.

From the Gospel of St. Matthew. Notice what immediately follows the Lord’s prayer.

The Lord’s Prayer.9**“This is how you are to pray:cOur Father in heaven,*hallowed be your name,10your kingdom come,your will be done,on earth as in heaven.d11**eGive us today our daily bread;12and forgive us our debts,*as we forgive our debtors;f13and do not subject us to the final test,but deliver us from the evil one.g14

***If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.h15But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions. **

 

[Magdalena59]

I know they do. I am not saying it is wrong to go to confession or shows lack of faith. But if it became such, where you started trusting in the physical body of the priest and confessional in order to need forgiveness, you would be trusting in something other than God. Now understanding that confession is what a Catholic must do once a year. It is good to get in touch with an advisor to isolate areas in your life you could improve upon. Such as increase in prayer and the like. But I personally do not feel bound to follow the ritualistic aspect of things and instead just communicate directly with God. Why would I want anything other than His glorious insight into my life’s flaws. He does this through conviction and then, comforting. Remembering that even though He convicts us, He also shows us understanding; teaching us the way forward and giving you a renewal in grace.

It is not a trusting in the physical body of the priest, it is trust in the provisions Jesus gave to us. It IS a trusting in God. A Catholic may be required to go once a year but is encouraged to go every couple of weeks or weekly (check out Saint Padre Pio’s recommendations) and must go when one commits a mortal sin.

When going to confession you ARE communicating directly with God.That is the whole point I have tried to explain. It is not a trust or communication with the priest but a conversation with God through the priest. The priest is God’s gift to us, to bring to us his comfort. I agree why would you not want His glorious insight in to your life, he does convict and then comforts and through the words of guidance given to us from Him through the priest he guides us and leads us, teaches us.

I know from personal experience that is hard to find on one’s own. Why would you not want it?

 

[Tomdstone]

I know they do. I am not saying it is wrong to go to confession or shows lack of faith. But if it became such, where you started trusting in the physical body of the priest and confessional in order to need forgiveness, you would be trusting in something other than God. Now understanding that confession is what a Catholic must do once a year. It is good to get in touch with an advisor to isolate areas in your life you could improve upon. Such as increase in prayer and the like. But I personally do not feel bound to follow the ritualistic aspect of things and instead just communicate directly with God. Why would I want anything other than His glorious insight into my life’s flaws. He does this through conviction and then, comforting. Remembering that even though He convicts us, He also shows us understanding; teaching us the way forward and giving you a renewal in grace.

Why did Jesus Christ give to His Apostles the authority to forgive sins?
John 20:23

 

[Duane1966]

I know they do. I am not saying it is wrong to go to confession or shows lack of faith. But if it became such, where you started trusting in the physical body of the priest and confessional in order to need forgiveness, you would be trusting in something other than God. Now understanding that confession is what a Catholic must do once a year. It is good to get in touch with an advisor to isolate areas in your life you could improve upon. Such as increase in prayer and the like. But I personally do not feel bound to follow the ritualistic aspect of things and instead just communicate directly with God. Why would I want anything other than His glorious insight into my life’s flaws. He does this through conviction and then, comforting. Remembering that even though He convicts us, He also shows us understanding; teaching us the way forward and giving you a renewal in grace.

We are trusting in what Jesus said and instituted much more than you are. Your views were never held for the first 1500 years of Christendom. Why is that?

The Catholic reply, from Catholic.com

Jesus is telling the apostles that they have been empowered to do something. He does not say, “When God forgives men’s sins, they are forgiven.” He uses the second person plural: “you.” And he talks about the apostles forgiving, not preaching. When he refers to retaining sins, he uses the same form: "When you hold them bound, they are held bound."

• The Advantages

Is the Catholic who confesses his sins to a priest any better off than the non-Catholic who confesses directly to God? Yes. First, he seeks forgiveness the way Christ intended. Second, by confessing to a priest, the Catholic learns a lesson in humility, which is avoided when one confesses only through private prayer. Third, the Catholic receives sacramental graces the non-Catholic doesn’t get; through the sacrament of penance sins are forgiven and graces are obtained. Fourth, the Catholic is assured that his sins are forgiven; he does not have to rely on a subjective “feeling.” Lastly, the Catholic can also obtain sound advice on avoiding sin in the future.*During his lifetime Christ sent out his followers to do his work. Just before he left this world, he gave the apostles special authority, commissioning them to make God’s forgiveness present to all people, and the whole Christian world accepted this, until just a few centuries ago. If there is an “invention” here, it is not the sacrament of penance, but the notion that the sacramental forgiveness of sins is not to be found in the Bible or in early Christian history.

 

[steve_b]

I understand the sacrament and agree it cleanses the soul through the priest persona Christi. Yet I can communicate directly with the Spirit of Christ and confess to Him my offenses and sins. Now is that effectual in the removal of sin?

Yes for sins that aren’t mortal.

Remember what John taught?

1 Jn 5:14 And this is the boldness we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. 16 If you see your brother or sisterd] committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and Gode] will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal.

John is writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Which means it ultimately comes from Jesus John 16:12-15 , the one who gave His apostles this power and sacrament, and ergo the ones they ordain the same power to forgive or retain ALL sins. John20:23 . Jesus doesn’t institute useless sacraments. Catholics have understood this sacrament for 2000 years. When it comes to forgiveness of sins, we do it Our Lord’s way.
G:

But that is precisely what happens. If you can not in your heart forgive someone you are holding onto sin. The separation between you and that person that exists creates an area in your life could have more love in it. But only the Spirit can teach you through conviction of sin, and the need for repentance. And then effectual cleansing grace is produced by the Spirit’s work.

Jesus has already spoken on this. Now it’s a matter of doing things His way and what He established. Remember these 2 passages, John 14:25-26 , and John 16:12-15 . The HS only inspires what He hears from Jesus. And Jesus instituted the sacrament of reconcilliation. John 20:22-23

 

[God_I_Love]

Yes for sins that aren’t mortal.

Remember what John taught?

1 Jn 5:14 And this is the boldness we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. 16 If you see your brother or sisterd] committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and Gode] will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal.

So repentence does not cleanse mortal sin? I understand that John is talking about a ‘‘sin unto death’’ meaning a complete turning away from God to self.

John is writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Which means it ultimately comes from Jesus John 16:12-15 , the one who gave His apostles this power and sacrament, and ergo the ones they ordain the same power to forgive or retain ALL sins. John20:23 . Jesus doesn’t institute useless sacraments. Catholics have understood this sacrament for 2000 years. When it comes to forgiveness of sins, we do it Our Lord’s way.

So no inspiration comes by the HS to men now? is it not God who is to teach us all things through the Spirit of Christ?
Now I understand that to those whom Jesus gave the HS, ‘‘receive ye the HS’’ is that not we whom have the HS? Is this not Christ speaking directly to us?

Jesus has already spoken on this. Now it’s a matter of doing things His way and what He established. Remember these 2 passages, John 14:25-26 , and John 16:12-15 . The HS only inspires what He hears from Jesus. And Jesus instituted the sacrament of reconcilliation. John 20:22-23

Yes and I agree the sacrament of reconciliation is instituted by Christ.

 

[God_I_Love]

Actually no. The priest has the power to retain, we do not. We can forgive them, and we should whether they ask for it or not. But we cannot make them retain them.

Why can not one with the HS (whom is not a priest) retain or forgive sins

From the Gospel of St. Matthew. Notice what immediately follows the Lord’s prayer.

The Lord’s Prayer.9**“This is how you are to pray:cOur Father in heaven,*hallowed be your name,10your kingdom come,your will be done,on earth as in heaven.d11**eGive us today our daily bread;12and forgive us our debts,*as we forgive our debtors;f13and do not subject us to the final test,but deliver us from the evil one.g14

***If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.h15But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions. **

Yes God is telling us that we whom we forgive are cleansed of that offense towards you. There perception of holding a grudge against you, for whatever reason, is lacking in forgiving. Complete forgiveness implies that you love them. And in doing that, even if they do not forgive us, we are still forgiven through Christ. Which is whom you must go through as the ransom to hold a debt against me. Only He can judge.

 

[cena]

Why can not one with the HS (whom is not a priest) retain or forgive sins

Yes God is telling us that we whom we forgive are cleansed of that offense towards you. There perception of holding a grudge against you, for whatever reason, is lacking in forgiving. Complete forgiveness implies that you love them. And in doing that, even if they do not forgive us, we are still forgiven through Christ. Which is whom you must go through as the ransom to hold a debt against me. Only He can judge.

I know you only want an answer from that person but here is a link that could help

catholic.com/tracts/the-forgiveness-of-sins

 

[Duane1966]

Why can not one with the HS (whom is not a priest) retain or forgive sins

Yes God is telling us that we whom we forgive are cleansed of that offense towards you. There perception of holding a grudge against you, for whatever reason, is lacking in forgiving. Complete forgiveness implies that you love them. And in doing that, even if they do not forgive us, we are still forgiven through Christ. Which is whom you must go through as the ransom to hold a debt against me. Only He can judge.

You are contradicting yourself. You cannot in the first sentence be asking why you cannot retain someone’s sins against you, which is a judgment, and then in the next say only Christ can judge.

It is precisely because we are the person who the sin is committed against, is the reason we are the ones who cannot do the retaining. Sometimes the hurt is so great that we, as human beings, do not give the sinner a fair hearing.

Yes God is telling us that we whom we forgive are cleansed of that offense towards you

Did you word this right? Do you mean *they *whom we forgive?

Because that is wrong also. Forgiveness of the offender does not hinge on whether the one who received the offense forgives. No matter how much a person may plead for our forgiveness, we as human beings, even though we know we are called to forgive, with our free will, we may still not forgive. The beauty is that if I wrong you, I can be forgiven, no matter how you feel about whether I should be forgiven or not.

Jesus clearly says some sins will be retained. Without going to a priest in the confessional, how do we know if our sins have not been retained?

 

[JamalChristophr]

For one thing, it humbles me much more as a person to go to another person even if they are in persona Christi, and tell them my ugly dark sins.

That humbles me, and God smiles upon the person who will humble himself.

If I simply tell God I’m sorry in the privacy of my own heart, there’s a big difference.

I think more graces come, in part, because we have humbled ourselves to disclose our moral failures, transgressions, and short comings to “other men” (if you understand what I mean here.)

 

[Duane1966]

For one thing, it humbles me much more as a person to go to another person even if they are in persona Christi, and tell them my ugly dark sins.

That humbles me, and God smiles upon the person who will humble himself.

If I simply tell God I’m sorry in the privacy of my own heart, there’s a big difference.

I think more graces come, in part, because we have humbled ourselves to disclose our moral failures, transgressions, and short comings to “other men” (if you understand what I mean here.)

Hmmmmmmm sounds an awful lot like my post #44.

 

[steve_b]

So repentence does not cleanse mortal sin? I understand that John is talking about a ‘‘sin unto death’’ meaning a complete turning away from God to self.

Let’s read it again.

1 Jn 5:14 And this is the boldness we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. 16 If you see your brother or sisterd] committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and Gode] will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal.

John is making a distinction between types of sin…agreed? All sin is wrong, but some sins are mortal (deadly). So what sins are mortal and what sins are NOT? He doesn’t go into that here. But mortal sin has to be really a bad sin in God’s view…agreed? It’s a grave enough sin that if one dies with that sin on their soul, they go straight to hell. So you ask, what sins are those that condemn a soul? Here’s an example #15

We are both body & soul. The body is mortal it lives it dies. The soul is immortal, once created by God at our conception, it lives forever with memory intellect and will fully functional.

The question is, what is required for the soul to live with God forever in heaven, as opposed to living in hell for all eternity? It’s grace in the soul. Specifically sanctifying grace. Non mortal sin (venial sin), doesn’t destroy sanctifying grace in the soul, mortal sin otoh does. In short, one’s soul without sanctifying grace at the end of their life here, will spend an eternity in hell.

In this particular selection from 1 John, John is validating just before this section, that sin is forgiven by prayer except for mortal sin. John doesn’t give the remedy for getting rid of mortal sin on one’s soul in this particular scripture selection. That’s because the remedy has already been given by Jesus. Jesus instituted the sacrament of reconcilliation John20:23. Therefore we do it His way not our way.
G:

So no inspiration comes by the HS to men now? is it not God who is to teach us all things through the Spirit of Christ?

Is God the author of all this confusion we see? Everybody thinking THEY are inspired by the HS? Neither you nor I are the pillar and foundation of truth. That title goes to the Church [1 Timothy 3:15](1 - - Bible Gateway Timothy+3:15&version=NRSVCE) the only one He established and gave all His promises to #34
G:

Now I understand that to those whom Jesus gave the HS, ‘‘receive ye the HS’’ is that not we whom have the HS? Is this not Christ speaking directly to us?

Who else was standing around “THEM” when Jesus breathed on “THEM” giving THEM the power to forgive or retain sin? John20:23

Our Lord was focusing this authority to the ones He ordained
G:

Yes and I agree the sacrament of reconciliation is instituted by Christ.

 

[Ignatius]

Essentially is confessing my sin to Jesus Christ personally as effectual in cleaning my soul from sin as going through a priest?

You misunderstand the Ministry of Reconciliation (Confession). Sins are confessed to Jesus Christ in the presence of the priest. He is the necessary witness.

 

[Magdalena59]

Why can not one with the HS (whom is not a priest) retain or forgive sins.

There are certain things God instituted that we can’t understand but God has his ways and knows best and because of His great love for us he gives us what we need and what works. Sometimes we don’t understand and want to go our own way or try to interpret Scripture on our own but the Bible is very clear that Scripture is not for private interpretation. (2 Peter). It happened also in the Old Testament the Israelites cried out to Moses and Aaron in Numbers 16, that everyone was holy and Moses and Aaron weren’t the only holy ones but God demonstrated in Numbers 17 with the budding of Aarons rod that Moses and Aaron were whom he had chosen.
In New Testament times Jesus instituted a new priesthood. It started with Jesus and the apostles and this new priesthood works in the person of Christ at certain times and one of those times is in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. It is a gift. God did not leave it up to us to decide whose sins are retained or forgiven but the one whom God has called into the priesthood. More than likely he did that because he knows our hearts and that our hearts are not always forgiving of others even when that person who hurt us is repentant.

Yes God is telling us that we whom we forgive are cleansed of that offense towards you. There perception of holding a grudge against you, for whatever reason, is lacking in forgiving. Complete forgiveness implies that you love them. And in doing that, even if they do not forgive us, we are still forgiven through Christ. Which is whom you must go through as the ransom to hold a debt against me. Only He can judge.

When we sin we not only sin against others but against God and our sins can affect all of humanity and that includes the Church, so when we forgive and reconcile between each other we are doing just that, only reconciling between each other but we also need to be reconciled to God and to all of the Church and that only happens in the sacrament of reconciliation.

I totally agree we must go to Christ. As I said before it is Christ whom we go to when we go to sacrament of confession. He is there loving and waiting.

 

[rfournier103]

Yes from a traditional point of view you are correct, from a Biblical not so much

Hmm…

From the Holy Bible:

**John 20:21-23 - **(Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. ose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

John 20:21-23 - (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, “as the Father sent me, so I send you.” As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

**John 20:22 **- the Lord “breathes” on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord “breathes” divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.
It appears that Jesus Christ has bestowed the authority to forgive sins to His Apostles AFTER the Crucifixion and Resurrection. How do you explain this? Hmm?

ALSO from the Holy Bible:

Matt 18:18 - Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt.18:18 - the apostles are given authority to bind and loose. The authority to bind and loose includes administering and removing the temporal penalties due to sin. The Jews understood this since the birth of the Church.

Why would Jesus give out this authority? How do Protestants explain it?

Yet MORE Biblical evidence…

James 5:14-15 - Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man’s authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

Any thoughts?

(Special thanks to Scripture Catholic)