Is confession to Jesus Christ as effectual as confession to a priest?

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SJacob7 said:
In Matthew 6 the Apostles ask Jesus how to pray. As we all know it starts out with “Our Father… foregive us our tresspasses”…

The Lords prayer goes directly to Our Father to ask for forgiveness.
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That would help the argument that a priest is not need to forgive sins
 
JamalChristophr said:
He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

John Chapter 20
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I like how this quote is used here. In looking at it however what I see is Jesus saying that anyone whom receives His Spirit ‘‘receive ye the Holy Ghost’’ has the power to forgive and retain sins. If I am a Christian filled with the Spirit and someone does something against me and I do not forgive them; the sin, or offense against me, remains. If I forgive them, the sin is absolved. Is this a just interpretation of this passage?
 
God_I_Love said:
I like how this quote is used here. In looking at it however what I see is Jesus saying that anyone whom receives His Spirit ‘‘receive ye the Holy Ghost’’ has the power to forgive and retain sins. If I am a Christian filled with the Spirit and someone does something against me and I do not forgive them; the sin, or offense against me, remains. If I forgive them, the sin is absolved. Is this a just interpretation of this passage?
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What if the person who sins against you kills your family? Years later, they are truly repentant and in jail, and they want to ask for your forgiveness, but you are dead? In fact, you died never forgiving them. Or you are alive, and you just cannot bring it into your heart to forgive them. Or you died having forgiven them, but they do not know that. Should their sin still be retained? Or has God provided us a way for us to know that the sin has truly been absolved, independent of the person the sin was committed against?

The above scenario has happened to me. (No killing involved. Person was dead before I could tell them how sorry I was and make amends) People who have committed grave sin do not know the power of the confessional in the healing process.
 
God_I_Love said:
I like how this quote is used here. In looking at it however what I see is Jesus saying that anyone whom receives His Spirit ‘‘receive ye the Holy Ghost’’ has the power to forgive and retain sins. If I am a Christian filled with the Spirit and someone does something against me and I do not forgive them; the sin, or offense against me, remains. If I forgive them, the sin is absolved. Is this a just interpretation of this passage?
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When Jesus said this to the Apostles they knew that the only way that they could forgive or not forgive would be to know what the sins are of people. The Apostles passed this on throughout history to the Bishops and Priests who came after them.

When you go to confession you are confessing your sins to Jesus, the priest is only the means through which it takes place. We are then, as someone else said, given the beautiful blessing of God’s grace and the help to fight committing that sin again.

It sounds as if you are saying that if you choose not to forgive someone on a personal level they can not receive forgiveness because you are retaining the sin and I don’t believe it works that way because many times we are not given the opportunity to confess our contrition to those we have hurt but we can always go to Jesus in the sacrament of confession.
 
Duane1966 said:
What if the person who sins against you kills your family? Years later, they are truly repentant and in jail, and they want to ask for your forgiveness, but you are dead? In fact, you died never forgiving them. Or you are alive, and you just cannot bring it into your heart to forgive them. Or you died having forgiven them, but they do not know that. Should their sin still be retained? Or has God provided us a way for us to know that the sin has truly been absolved, independent of the person the sin was committed against?

The above scenario has happened to me. (No killing involved. Person was dead before I could tell them how sorry I was and make amends) People who have committed grave sin do not know the power of the confessional in the healing process.
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You don’t understand, the sin can be absolved in confession. The priest can retain it if he thinks that the penitent isn’t contrite( like they are not avoiding occasion of sin so they don’t seem to be repentant). Otherwise if he gives you absolution and you have contrition you are forgiven.The person the sin was committed against does not have to forgive you.
 
Magdalena59 said:
When Jesus said this to the Apostles they knew that the only way that they could forgive or not forgive would be to know what the sins are of people. The Apostles passed this on throughout history to the Bishops and Priests who came after them.

When you go to confession you are confessing your sins to Jesus, the priest is only the means through which it takes place. We are then, as someone else said, given the beautiful blessing of God’s grace and the help to fight committing that sin again.
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I understand the sacrament and agree it cleanses the soul through the priest persona Christi. Yet I can communicate directly with the Spirit of Christ and confess to Him my offenses and sins. Now is that effectual in the removal of sin?
It sounds as if you are saying that if you choose not to forgive someone on a personal level they can not receive forgiveness because you are retaining the sin and I don’t believe it works that way because many times we are not given the opportunity to confess our contrition to those we have hurt but we can always go to Jesus in the sacrament of confession.
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But that is precisely what happens. If you can not in your heart forgive someone you are holding onto sin. The separation between you and that person that exists creates an area in your life could have more love in it. But only the Spirit can teach you through conviction of sin, and the need for repentance. And then effectual cleansing grace is produced by the Spirit’s work.
 
cena said:
You don’t understand, the sin can be absolved in confession. The priest can retain it if he thinks that the penitent isn’t contrite( like they are not avoiding occasion of sin so they don’t seem to be repentant). Otherwise if he gives you absolution and you have contrition you are forgiven.The person the sin was committed against does not have to forgive you.
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I understand completely. Do you understand that I posted that question to a specific person based on something they said?
 
God_I_Love said:
Essentially is confessing my sin to Jesus Christ personally as effectual in cleaning my soul from sin as going through a priest?
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No. For one thing when confessing through the sacrament of reconciliation you **are **confessing to Jesus. The priest is just the means through which you confess and receive forgiveness and grace. It comes to you from Jesus through the priest.

Also, when we sin, what we do has effects through all of the Church. We are one body and in the sacrament of reconciliation we are also reconciled to God’s Church.

Saint Augustine himself said that our hope is in confession.

I know as an ex-protestant that confessing sins just quietly to Jesus in prayer are important but also leave one in doubt. “Should I confess again? Am I forgiven? What should I do about this sin? and so forth” Always in doubt. Many times you end up finding a friend somewhere who will listen to you, so you can “get it off your chest” and feel justified or forgiven. This is perhaps why you are asking this question. You, as we all do need to have the feeling of truly being forgiven. A priest said once, everyone goes to confession sometime, just not always to a priest, then not always getting reconciled to God. Probably why we have so many talk shows. We have the need to confess.

The beauty of hearing the grace filled words from the priest, “Go in peace. Your sins are forgiven”, are too wonderful to explain and knowing it is Jesus speaking to you through the priest because the priest is working in “persona Christi”, well this is just one of the most wonderful and consoling sacraments.

Probably one of the great reasons Jesus instituted the priesthood, so we could confess, be forgiven and go in God’s peace. Awesome.
 
Duane1966 said:
What if the person who sins against you kills your family? Years later, they are truly repentant and in jail, and they want to ask for your forgiveness, but you are dead? In fact, you died never forgiving them. Or you are alive, and you just cannot bring it into your heart to forgive them. Or you died having forgiven them, but they do not know that. Should their sin still be retained? Or has God provided us a way for us to know that the sin has truly been absolved, independent of the person the sin was committed against?

The above scenario has happened to me. (No killing involved. Person was dead before I could tell them how sorry I was and make amends) People who have committed grave sin do not know the power of the confessional in the healing process.
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Thats what the Last Day is. The judgment of all and everything becomes known. So if they died or forgot they will be shown the reasons behind you doing what was done and the reasons behind them doing what they did. They will be there and so will you witnessing all things being brought forth through the power of the Spirit of God. And you will declare that the Lord is just in His judgments. And every tongue will confess.
 
God_I_Love said:
I understand the sacrament and agree it cleanses the soul through the priest persona Christi. Yet I can communicate directly with the Spirit of Christ and confess to Him my offenses and sins. Now is that effectual in the removal of sin?

But that is precisely what happens. If you can not in your heart forgive someone you are holding onto sin. The separation between you and that person that exists creates an area in your life could have more love in it. But only the Spirit can teach you through conviction of sin, and the need for repentance. And then effectual cleansing grace is produced by the Spirit’s work.
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I would say it depends on the sin, the amount of times you commit the sin, if it is venial or mortal, if you are truly repentant and if you know or don’t about the sacrament of reconciliation and choose to ignore it or not. Also, if the sacrament of reconciliation is available to you or not. Perhaps also, your relationship with the Lord, how closely one is walking with the Lord. Only God can read someone’s heart. I can not, so it would not be wise for me to say not going to confession to receive forgiveness is just as good as going to confession to receive forgiveness. Jesus gave us the sacrament of reconciliation because we need it. The sacrament of reconciliation is a gift, not a burden.

I understood the meaning behind the example that the person committing the sin, though he was repentant would not receive forgiveness if the person he sinned against did not forgive him. I agree that if you do not forgive you are holding onto sin and bitterness but that sounds like you are talking about us forgiving those who hurt us, which is a different argument.
 
Magdalena59 said:
No. For one thing when confessing through the sacrament of reconciliation you **are **confessing to Jesus. The priest is just the means through which you confess and receive forgiveness and grace. It comes to you from Jesus through the priest.

Also, when we sin, what we do has effects through all of the Church. We are one body and in the sacrament of reconciliation we are also reconciled to God’s Church.

Saint Augustine himself said that our hope is in confession.

I know as an ex-protestant that confessing sins just quietly to Jesus in prayer are important but also leave one in doubt. “Should I confess again? Am I forgiven? What should I do about this sin? and so forth” Always in doubt. Many times you end up finding a friend somewhere who will listen to you, so you can “get it off your chest” and feel justified or forgiven. This is perhaps why you are asking this question. You, as we all do need to have the feeling of truly being forgiven. A priest said once, everyone goes to confession sometime, just not always to a priest, then not always getting reconciled to God. Probably why we have so many talk shows. We have the need to confess.

The beauty of hearing the grace filled words from the priest, “Go in peace. Your sins are forgiven”, are too wonderful to explain and knowing it is Jesus speaking to you through the priest because the priest is working in “persona Christi”, well this is just one of the most wonderful and consoling sacraments.

Probably one of the great reasons Jesus instituted the priesthood, so we could confess, be forgiven and go in God’s peace. Awesome.
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I agree with the sacrament. I understand the beauty of Christ’s work being poured out upon the repentant. But I also believe that can take place outside of the confessional as well. So if you doubt that you are forgiven go to a priest. But if, living by faith, I trust in the Lord and know He has forgiven me due to my repentance, do I need to go to a priest? isn’t that like doubt?
 
Duane1966 said:
…
The above scenario has happened to me. (No killing involved. Person was dead before I could tell them how sorry I was and make amends) People who have committed grave sin do not know the power of the confessional in the healing process.
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:yup:

I can relate to this. I, too have had remorse and wanted to make amends with people who have died but could not but found that forgiveness in the sacrament of reconciliation.
 
God_I_Love said:
I agree with the sacrament. I understand the beauty of Christ’s work being poured out upon the repentant. But I also believe that can take place outside of the confessional as well. So if you doubt that you are forgiven go to a priest. But if, living by faith, I trust in the Lord and know He has forgiven me due to my repentance, do I need to go to a priest? isn’t that like doubt?
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Those who go to confession live by faith also. It is our faith that tells us we need what Jesus has given us and that is where we find forgiveness. It is our repentance and contrition and living out our faith that leads us to Jesus in the confessional. If you understand what happens in the sacrament why would you not want it?
 
Magdalena59 said:
I would say it depends on the sin, the amount of times you commit the sin, if it is venial or mortal, if you are truly repentant and if you know or don’t about the sacrament of reconciliation and choose to ignore it or not. Also, if the sacrament of reconciliation is available to you or not. Perhaps also, your relationship with the Lord, how closely one is walking with the Lord. Only God can read someone’s heart. I can not, so it would not be wise for me to say not going to confession to receive forgiveness is just as good as going to confession to receive forgiveness. Jesus gave us the sacrament of reconciliation because we need it. The sacrament of reconciliation is a gift, not a burden.
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It is a wonderful gift.
I understood the meaning behind the example that the person committing the sin, though he was repentant would not receive forgiveness if the person he sinned against did not forgive him. I agree that if you do not forgive you are holding onto sin and bitterness but that sounds like you are talking about us forgiving those who hurt us, which is a different argument.
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I’m not saying you have to know if the other person forgave you. But even without their forgiveness of repetance you can in your heart be forgiving towards them. Always find Christ in them and you can draw closer. But that can only happen, even if they remain obstinate and hardened, through an outpouring of your love (having already opened your heart through repentant forgiveness) upon them. This is why it says in Psalms ‘‘22For you will heap burning coals on his head, And the LORD will reward you.’’
 
God_I_Love said:
It is a wonderful gift.

I’m not saying you have to know if the other person forgave you. But even without their forgiveness of repetance you can in your heart be forgiving towards them. Always find Christ in them and you can draw closer. But that can only happen, even if they remain obstinate and hardened, through an outpouring of your love (having already opened your heart through repentant forgiveness) upon them. This is why it says in Psalms ‘‘22For you will heap burning coals on his head, And the LORD will reward you.’’
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I agree with both.

Even though the sacrament of reconciliation exists for our obtaining forgiveness and grace from God, we still are required to love and forgive each other.
 
Magdalena59 said:
Those who go to confession live by faith also. It is our faith that tells us we need what Jesus has given us and that is where we find forgiveness. It is our repentance and contrition and living out our faith that leads us to Jesus in the confessional. If you understand what happens in the sacrament why would you not want it?
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I know they do. I am not saying it is wrong to go to confession or shows lack of faith. But if it became such, where you started trusting in the physical body of the priest and confessional in order to need forgiveness, you would be trusting in something other than God. Now understanding that confession is what a Catholic must do once a year. It is good to get in touch with an advisor to isolate areas in your life you could improve upon. Such as increase in prayer and the like. But I personally do not feel bound to follow the ritualistic aspect of things and instead just communicate directly with God. Why would I want anything other than His glorious insight into my life’s flaws. He does this through conviction and then, comforting. Remembering that even though He convicts us, He also shows us understanding; teaching us the way forward and giving you a renewal in grace.
 
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