Is conversion the only way to becoming a nun? (Sorry about the length, its important)

[JReducation]

I see that you say this but then you say…

The Orthodox do not have the approval of the Sacred Congregation.

This is true Brother; but as you will study in Canon Law, the approval of the Sacred Congregation is a matter of jurisdiction, not a matter of Apostolic Succession.

Orthodox Christians are not bound by the jurisdiction of the Sacred Congregation for Religious and Secular Institutes and they have Apostolic succession. Because they are true Churches they can accept vows in the name of the Church using their own juridical system.

The Reformation Communities do not have Apostolic succession. Therefore, they cannot validly accept public vows in the name of the Church. They don’t have jurisdiction to speak for the Church. The Orthodox hierarchy does have jurisdiction, even though they are not in full communion with the See of Peter.

I don’t know if there are Anglican Carmelites. But there are Anglican Franciscans. This has been a major point of separation between us. We, the Catholic Franciscans, cannot acknowledge them as members of the Order. Our four rules are very specific that the vow of obedience must be to: God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, our holy Father St. Francis, the Pope and all of their canonically elected successors. Without a valid vow of obedience, Conference of Franciscan Superiors General (Friars and Secular Superiors General) at best can recognize them as Anglican Franciscan Societies, without the same status of Public Associations of the Faithful.

The Orthodox religious do not vow obedience to the Holy. The Rule of St. Basil does not indicate it. The Orthodox bishops are Ordinaries.

This is an unfortunate historical stress that we must try to resolve so that all Christians can be fully reunited.

In the meantime, my recommendation to the OP is to seek out a Catholic community or an ecumenical community that has the “bene placito” of the Catholic hierarchy, at least the local bishop.

Religioius life, whether it is lived in a regular order or a secular order is a response to follow Christ. But Christ means for members these communities to follow him in the footsteps of the Apostles. The closer we are in communion with the Apostles the closer we are to the fullness of truth.

A man and a woman who joins an order, regular or secular, is responding to Christ’s call to follow him down a specific path that leads to the union of the soul with him within the Church, in union with his brothers and sisters and bears fruit in charity.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[1234]

I did post another topic on the subject. I have been looking around and asking questions for a while and got a multitude of different anwsers.

I have never been a part or practised christianity or catholicism. I’m pantheist pagan and occultist.

When i was younger (age 9) had thought about being a catholic nun. This fascination lasted off and on. Im very intrested in the life they lead, what they do and their pure devotion.

However obviouly i wouldnt be able to join. In some way i wish they would make an exception for me to join. As im willing to sacrifice the practicing occult for just being a pantheist. Im naturally a person who helps people and volunteers. Im not a material person (i do own a mobile and laptop few cd and dvds though) Im completely celibate (including relationships).

Im willing to go further like cover over my hair or cut my hair very short (to avoid the large amount of money i spend on my long hair.) I would be happy to study catholicism, bible and theology in depth.

i have some of the qualites but just not the main religion.

Would a complete convertion be the only way?

Im dont value conversion as a general rule mostly when people marry and their spouse converts to their religion type of thing. I Think regardless i should be a personal choice and true to themselves.

I have only tried once to visit a catholic church but the worry of having to explain myself like this to someone face to face. I got looks from people and left. I didnt find any leaflets about convents there.

thankyou

There are pantheist and pagan magazines–I’ve seen one in my health food/coop store –and there may be ads or sources for information on pantheistic celibate groups–or wiccans, who seem to be pantheistic to me. There are forums on all sorts of religious groups and you might find some leads there. I think that you are attracted to the life, not the beliefs, so I think that this is the way to go.

You are not alone. I have been attracted to the life for a long time, and have no Christian belief. Zen Buddhism, which has no establish belief system in the usual sense, has a well-established celibate tradition.

 

[JReducation]

The religious life is not just the vows of chastity, poverty and obedience or the community and ministry.

When we speak about our way of life, we’re speaking about living in a relationship with Christ and the Church. Therefore, the religious life is very much a way of life. It is a way of living in intimate relationship with Christ, within the Church and bound to the community by vows. Through chastity we surrender the gift of marriage and procreation and we embrace our sexuality as a precious gift that we present to Christ. Our need and desire for intimacy is satisfied through intimate contemplation. Our vow of obedience is a surrender of our will to the Will of God as he communicates it through the Gospel, the Church, and our community. Finally, through poverty we seek to detach from things, persons and places that are unnecessary to achieve union between the soul and God or that stand in the way of perfect union with God.

The Rule of the Order or the Statutes of the Congregation are the map by which we live this life in constant search for a deeper union with the Divine. The community is our new family where we find support and the perfect school of charity. It is very difficult to live in community.

There is no other form of religious life that can provide this framework. Buddhism, does have a monastic life, but it is nihilistic. It does not seek union eternal union with the Divine. When the individual dies, the journey is over. Such is not the case in Catholic and Orthodox religious life.

If one is seeking intimate union with Divinity by following a specific religious charism, there is no place outside the Church to find it.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[1234]

I did post another topic on the subject. I have been looking around and asking questions for a while and got a multitude of different anwsers.

I have never been a part or practised christianity or catholicism. I’m pantheist pagan and occultist.

When i was younger (age 9) had thought about being a catholic nun. This fascination lasted off and on. Im very intrested in the life they lead, what they do and their pure devotion.

However obviouly i wouldnt be able to join. In some way i wish they would make an exception for me to join. As im willing to sacrifice the practicing occult for just being a pantheist. Im naturally a person who helps people and volunteers. Im not a material person (i do own a mobile and laptop few cd and dvds though) Im completely celibate (including relationships).

Im willing to go further like cover over my hair or cut my hair very short (to avoid the large amount of money i spend on my long hair.) I would be happy to study catholicism, bible and theology in depth.

i have some of the qualites but just not the main religion.

Would a complete convertion be the only way?

Im dont value conversion as a general rule mostly when people marry and their spouse converts to their religion type of thing. I Think regardless i should be a personal choice and true to themselves.

I have only tried once to visit a catholic church but the worry of having to explain myself like this to someone face to face. I got looks from people and left. I didnt find any leaflets about convents there.

thankyou

AngelFairy posted twice on Oct 28 and has not posted since.

Both of her posts were on the same subject.

She has not indicated any interest in converting at all.

She has not followed up the many suggestions that she convert. She apparently knows what she needs to do and has not posted any followup interest.

I suggest that posters not trash Buddhist celibate culture or any other, for that matter, and let the issue lie.

 

[JReducation]

AngelFairy posted twice on Oct 28 and has not posted since.

Both of her posts were on the same subject.

She has not indicated any interest in converting at all.

She has not followed up the many suggestions that she convert. She apparently knows what she needs to do and has not posted any followup interest.

I suggest that posters not trash Buddhist celibate culture or any other, for that matter, and let the issue lie.

Hi,

I agree with 1234, if AngelFairy has not returned, there is not much more that we can suggest and this thread is almost useless.

That was a good observation, 1234.

I did say that Buddhist monasticism is nihilistic, but I did not mean that as an inssult or a bash. That is actually the teaching of the Catholic Church, which was summarized by John Paul II in his famous work Crossing the Threshold of Hope. He does a very good job at explaining why the Church considers Buddhism nihilistic. He is very charitable, very rational and gentle in the manner that he explains it. It’s an excellent work of theology and philosophy if anyone has not read it.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Augustine]

I don’t know if there are Anglican Carmelites.

I don’t believe that the OCD or the OCarm have the copyright on the word “Carmelite”, so, really, any yahoo can use it, even Anglicans. However, matters may get complicated even across different rites.

I know that there are Byzantine Carmelites and belonging to the Latin rite is not mandated by the OCD Constitution, but it seems that it’s practically very hard to become a religious even if one’s rite is not Latin. AFAIK, those coming from other rites transfer to the Latin rite when being accepted at a community.

 

[JReducation]

I don’t believe that the OCD or the OCarm have the copyright on the word “Carmelite”, so, really, any yahoo can use it, even Anglicans. However, matters may get complicated even across different rites.

I know that there are Byzantine Carmelites and belonging to the Latin rite is not mandated by the OCD Constitution, but it seems that it’s practically very hard to become a religious even if one’s rite is not Latin. AFAIK, those coming from other rites transfer to the Latin rite when being accepted at a community.

There are biritual religious. But Anglicans are not a rite. They’re not even a Church. They are a “Reformation” Community. I use the term reformation in quotes, because Henry was not really attempting a reform of anything.

You’re right, no one has a copyright on religious terms. What the Superior General of the Secular Franciscans and the Superiors General of the Friars Minor said was that they Anglican Franciscans are not part of the Franciscan family and cannot be use the term “order”, because they lack one element that is found in the Rules of St. Francis, obedience to the Pope. The Anglican Franciscans have since changed their name to Society of St. Francis.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[1234]

Hi,

I agree with 1234, if AngelFairy has not returned, there is not much more that we can suggest and this thread is almost useless.

That was a good observation, 1234.

I did say that Buddhist monasticism is nihilistic, but I did not mean that as an inssult or a bash. That is actually the teaching of the Catholic Church, which was summarized by John Paul II in his famous work Crossing the Threshold of Hope. He does a very good job at explaining why the Church considers Buddhism nihilistic. He is very charitable, very rational and gentle in the manner that he explains it. It’s an excellent work of theology and philosophy if anyone has not read it.

Fraternally,

JR

JPII have have been charitable, rational and gentle, but he managed to offend a lot of people, anyway.

 

[JReducation]

JPII have have been charitable, rational and gentle, but he managed to offend a lot of people, anyway.

The man is a candidate for sainthood not for diplomacy. Many people through history have been offended by what saints had to say or what they did. That does not take away from reason and truth.

Unless an offense is intentional, it is not a problem of the speaker. It may be true that John Paul II said or did things that others found offensive. But where is the evidence that those were intentional offenses? Often people got offended by things that he said and did, because it was contrary to what they believed or advocated, not because it was irrational or unkind.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[1234]

The man is a candidate for sainthood not for diplomacy. Many people through history have been offended by what saints had to say or what they did. That does not take away from reason and truth.

Unless an offense is intentional, it is not a problem of the speaker. It may be true that John Paul II said or did things that others found offensive. But where is the evidence that those were intentional offenses? Often people got offended by things that he said and did, because it was contrary to what they believed or advocated, not because it was irrational or unkind.

Fraternally,

JR

I’m sure he did not intend to offend. I also suspect that most Buddhists did not listen to what he had to say. Most Buddhists do not find Buddhism nihilistic.

 

[Aldebaran]

Angel Fairy,

You said you are willing to make some sacrifices. You have many places to look, but you came to a Christian sight to search. There are many Protestant religious orders. With a little research I am sure you could find the home to which you are being called. I suggest you look at one of the Celtic Christian orders. You do need to be baptized & confirmed. The confirmation classes could give you the chance to truly explore your calling.
I searched for many years before I found the to which I was being called. Don’t give up.

Blessings.
Aldebaran

 

[jazzbass981]

Your answer is most obvious! If you are being called to catholic religious life, then you are being called by GOD alone! He is telling you to drop the rediculousness of the stuff you are (hopefully were) practicing, and step on over to the TRUTH! I was a great sinner, and always struggle with my desire for the pleasures of the flesh. However, I feel a calling so strongly by God to become a deacon in the true church! I have DRASTICALLY reduced my ungodly ways, and am answering the call!