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spauline
Guest
Some young people have committed suicide because of derision and cruel ridicule from peers. In these cases, is this teasing still merely a venial sin, as I have heard the RCC teaches?
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LilyM
Guest
Sin always requires intention, and mortal sin requires full knowledge and intent to committ mortal sin. You thus would have to either seriously believe that the teasee is in a suicidal frame of mind or seriously intend to make them feel suicidal.
It’s kind of like Dick Cheney shooting his friend - if he had full knowledge that the guy was there in the path of his gun and shot anyway it’s murder. Because he didn’t it isn’t.
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spauline
Guest
Someone once told persons at work that if he were me, he would commit suicide. What then, of that?
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LittleDeb
Guest
The teasing might only be venial, while there might be a deeper, mortal sin causing the person to tease. True teasing is supposed to be in fun. Some people just go too far.
I think what you are asking about is a truly black heart, a person who bullies out of malice. That person might be in a state of mortal sin. It is the hatred that is their mortal sin.
Always remember it is God’s place to truly judge sin. We can judge wrong acts and do our best to determine if it is in fact sin. But only God knows our hearts and can objectively judge if a particular person is in a state of sin.
I think what you are asking about is a truly black heart, a person who bullies out of malice. That person might be in a state of mortal sin. It is the hatred that is their mortal sin.
Always remember it is God’s place to truly judge sin. We can judge wrong acts and do our best to determine if it is in fact sin. But only God knows our hearts and can objectively judge if a particular person is in a state of sin.
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wcknight
Guest
Cruel teasing can be a mortal sin, if true hatred is involved. We know that to hate anyone is seriously wrong, and to act out on that hatred, is even more seriously wrong.
Certainly if we purposely drive anyone to violence or suicide, we would be equally responsible for that persons death or violence.
Certainly if we purposely drive anyone to violence or suicide, we would be equally responsible for that persons death or violence.
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spauline
Guest
Well, yes, I agree that we cannot judge anyone’s motives, only their *actions. *That is, we can say that what a person is doing is OBJECTIVELY immoral, but we cannot be the judge of what the person’s SUBJECTIVE motives, circumstances, etc. are. Yes, I know that the Church teaches that to be mortal, not only must it be GRAVE MATTER, but also the SUBJECTIVE conditions of FULL KNOWLEDGE (or culpability for full knowledge) and FULL CONSENT OF THE WILL. So, I didn’t mean to imply that this we can know for sure that this particular person of whom I referred to above is in mortal sin, but I would have to say that, OBJECTIVELY, saying that you would commit suicide if you were someone because they are derided by the world’s standards (i.e., they are not cool, are nerds, virgin at age 29, unable to handle blue collar work and overly intellectual, goofy, etc.) is an insult of infinite degree, since every human person, whether they are strong or weak, athletic or not, smart or not, successful or not, thin or fat, attractive in the face or not, socially adept or not, is priceless and possesses an immeasurable worth, because God desires to give to the person the totality of Himself in Infinite Love forever. Hence, to regard any such creature merely as some object of entertainment and as otherwise worthless seems to me to be at least OBJECTIVELY grave matter, excepting of course, as I said, the person’s motives and will, intellect, etc. Father Doubay once commented that there is no such thing as an ORDINARY person. EVERY PERSON is EXTRAORDINARY, for they will exist for all eternity in one of two places: a place of everlasting joy and love, or a place of unimaginable torment and agony eternal.
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spauline
Guest
I don’t think it needs to be necessarily *hatred. *It could be simply regarding the person as intrinsically worthless. That is, the person m may not hate the individual but simply have pride that regards the individual as worthless. That alone would seem to suffice for me. And yet, I don’t think we can fully blame many young people today because they are led by our culture to regard themselves as merely animals.
I recall a funny comment by Janet Smith (The “Contraception: Why Not?” speaker). She was relating how after one lecture at her school, a girl came up to her and said “Mrs. Smith, I just can’t understand why you’re making such a big deal of the difference between animals and humans. We’re really not all that different.” Janet responded, “Let me ask you a question. Have you ever heard of a dog painting the top of his dog house like the Sistine Chapel?” “No.” “Have you ever heard of pigs playing rugby?” “No.” “Have you ever heard it to be possible to teach algebra to gorillas?” “No, not that I can think of.” “Why do you suppose that is?” Janet finally asked. The girl responded, “I don’t know, I guess they’re just not interested.”
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svoboda
Guest
People can be psychologically damaged by teasing even if they don’t kill themselves.
Psychological damage is harder to repair than physical damage.
In my opinion something that does harm to human beings in this way is a mortal sin.
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spauline
Guest
I agree that non-abortificiant contraception is less of a sin than ultimately cruel teasing, because cruel teasing is really violating the fifth commandment, thou shalt not kill, which is more serious than the sixth commandment, which non-abortificiant contraception violates. However, any contraception is still a mortal sin given the presence of the subjective conditions, and one that will undermine the foundations of human civlization if it goes unchecked.
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ReformedCatholic
Guest
I’m confused as to what contraception has to do with the question.
“One that will undermine the foundations of human civilization?” Are we still talking about condoms here? LOL
I agree with what Svogoda said.
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thistle
Guest
I would think that any kind of deliberate cruelty is a mortal sin, not just teasing.
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IPTgrad
Guest
Where have you heard that the Church teaches this? There is not, to my knowledge, a list of mortal and venial sins. Sin and the examination of ones own conscience is a very delicate and personal matter. The journey of a soul towards perfection cannot be reduced to lists of “acceptable,” “somewhat acceptable,” “condemned.”
Now, on a purely objective level, as a middle school teacher I have observed many years of the behaviors mentioned above. I have seen those who carelessly toss about whatever comment is in their minds at the moment with little though about its effect. I have seen those who mimic the behavior they have been subjected to at home. I have also seen personalities who seem truly sociopathic and who seem to get great pleasure out of purposely hurting others with their words. I can objectively judge a certain level of these individuals’ sins, guided by Church standards, but I cannot judge the state of any soul. I pray for each of them, that they will feel the tug of conscience that God has given each of them, and that they will begin a lifelong journey of growth in perfection. I pray also to be an instrument in God’s hands to help them to feel Him in their lives.
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spauline
Guest
this is what I got in the message in my email:
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spauline
Guest
I already know I can’t judge them. Please see my reply above.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
I’d tell him not to be deterred by the fact that he isn’t you.
Then again, maybe I wouldn’t say that…
Alan
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