Is cruelty to animals a sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bobzills
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Would it be a mortal or a venial sin to eat meat from animals killed at a cruel slaughterhouse?
Well, if the person didn’t know that it was an issue, then it wouldn’t be a sin at all. It could be hard to say on the other - perhaps if the person had a clear understanding that it was indeed cruel, and didn’t care, it would be a mortal sin. Most people just think “oh that’s just the way it is - too bad” and never connect it to their spiritual lives.

I can think of a number of good texts dealing with diet where it might be appropriate to preach a sermon about what we choose to buy and consume. Catholics often propose boycotts about companies that support birth control or pornography, so I think the presedent exists that we are meant to be responsible consumers.
 
I admit processing veal can be cruel, but slaughterhouses aren’t cruel to the other animals. I have been in them, and I have seen the process from sale barn to dinner plate firsthand- there’s nothing cruel about it. The animals don’t know what’s going on, and if they feel anything, they are unconscious before they know what hits them.

Cruelty to animals can be a sin- depending on what the nature of the cruelty is, and how advanced the animal is. Smashing bugs just for fun isn’t a sin. Running over a dog or cat with your car on purpose probably is. If it’s something that doesn’t hurt the animal (just annoys it), but is unncessesary, it is a venial sin (if a sin at all). If it isn’t severe, but has lasting effects, it’s probably a venial sin. If it is something that causes the animal extreme fear or pain, it very likely is a mortal sin.

I’m not sure how much national publicity the following case got- it was all over the news where I was, but I lived near Kansas City, so it was local for me. Maybe some of you heard about it and still remember it. 12 years ago, in Kansas City, four men maliciously tortured a small dog until they finally killed it. They videotaped the whole thing- and gave copies of it to their friends. Someone turned it in to the police, and the people who did it were arrested. When asked why they did it, they responded “because we were bored”. They were all tried and convicted of animal cruelty and arson (they lit the dog on fire). That kind of animal cruelty is definitely a sin (and I imagine it was a mortal one)- just because it isn’t human doesn’t give us the right to senselessly torture it- animals are still part of God’s beautiful creation.
 
I admit processing veal can be cruel, but slaughterhouses aren’t cruel to the other animals. I have been in them, and I have seen the process from sale barn to dinner plate firsthand- there’s nothing cruel about it. The animals don’t know what’s going on, and if they feel anything, they are unconscious before they know what hits them.

Cruelty to animals can be a sin- depending on what the nature of the cruelty is, and how advanced the animal is. Smashing bugs just for fun isn’t a sin. Running over a dog or cat with your car on purpose probably is. If it’s something that doesn’t hurt the animal (just annoys it), but is unncessesary, it is a venial sin (if a sin at all). If it isn’t severe, but has lasting effects, it’s probably a venial sin. If it is something that causes the animal extreme fear or pain, it very likely is a mortal sin.

I’m not sure how much national publicity the following case got- it was all over the news where I was, but I lived near Kansas City, so it was local for me. Maybe some of you heard about it and still remember it. 12 years ago, in Kansas City, four men maliciously tortured a small dog until they finally killed it. They videotaped the whole thing- and gave copies of it to their friends. Someone turned it in to the police, and the people who did it were arrested. When asked why they did it, they responded “because we were bored”. They were all tried and convicted of animal cruelty and arson (they lit the dog on fire). That kind of animal cruelty is definitely a sin (and I imagine it was a mortal one)- just because it isn’t human doesn’t give us the right to senselessly torture it- animals are still part of God’s beautiful creation.
If a person finds smashing bugs fun, I would have to wonder about their attitude toward creation. Such behavior is also very common among psychopaths, which is hardly a recommendation.

I have also been in slaughterhouses, and I would dispute what you said. In many, though not all, cases, the process is very fearful for the animals. Transporting them to the sale barn and then to the abattoir are both very stressful, and physically hard on the animals. Many slaughterhouses have not been set up with best practices in mind, though there has been some very good work done to improve this by some.

More than that though, industrial agriculture is a mess. Feedlots and industrial barns are very unpleasant places, where animals are kept in abnormal conditions and subject to nasty interventions. In the US they are fed antibiotics which threaten everyone by creating super-bugs. They are an environmental disaster.

All so we can have cheap pork.
 
Would that also apply to eating a hamburgher or a hot dog from an animal that has been killed in a cruel slaughterhouse? I haven’t heard any sermons on this question.
I don’t know how I would know that. If there was an expose on a slaughterhouse which was not killing the animal as quickly as possible but using methods that caused it to suffer unnecessarily, I wouldn’t buy those meats.
 
While we have not had any live ones–in the past year or so, I’ve had my cats bring back their deceased gift.:eek:

Nothing like opening the door and finding a dead rodent.

They say its the thought that counts.

It’s comical when after I remove said dead rodent that when the cat is ready to play with her kill–she can’t find it.

We try to buy organic meats as they tend to more humanely raise and care for their animals and then humanely slaughter them for their meat.
too funny…my cats always look at me as if to say “what, you dont want that half eaten rabbit?..you philistine!”…lol…fd
 
Yes. But what conerns me is that meat-eating people can be cruel to animals without realising it. The slaughterhouses are incredibly cruel to animals, and this is where most of our meat comes from.
well…i was raised sda(not anymore, thank god, lol)and didnt eat meat until i went in the army at age 17, so i can go either way on diet…you make a valid point, though…i was doing some drywall at plantation foods in waco, texas during the high summer…think 105 to 110 degrees outside…i can remember the big trucks pulling up filled with birds that were dying of heat, dehydration, and general transport trauma…i thought it was VERY cruel…the other side of that coin is the fact that i havent bought much meat for years now…i have a freezer full of venison, rabbit, pheasent, etc…this is all game that i hunted, cleaned, and processed myself…i also have an apiary and my own vegetable garden…this all fits in nicely with my beleif in cob houses and clean, “off the grid” energy(think solar and wind)…fd
 
Cruelty to animals is a sickening, disgusting, and downright wrong. How can people even ask the question if it’s a sin?!! Of course it is!
 
This makes no sense on so many levels.

First of all, Christianity does not teach us that each human soul is of infinite worth. It teaches us that each human soul is of itself worthless.

All responsibility for how the animals are treated at slaughter cannot be put on the facility that does the work, though they obviously bear responsibility for much. If a facility is cruel, intentionally or unintentionally, then the customer also bears responsibility for buying the product.

It may well be that many abattoirs work on a model, that of the North American industrial food system, that makes it impossible to treat the animals properly, as well as having other serious stewardship issues. That does not mean that they should carry on and accept that, or that their customers should. If they cannot “afford” to operate properly, they shouldn’t operate at all. We don’t let them operate if they can’t afford to upgrade to whatever the health regulations are.

There are places in the world where the production of certain products has terrible effects on the workers - they spend their time being sprayed by pesticides as they pick fruit, or small children are forced to work long days in dangerous conditions. Would you suggest that if there was no other way to get these products, we should continue to support that way of producing them by buying them?

Meat is not something we need to have or we will die. It is, for much of the world, a luxury product. If you can’t find it produced in an ethical way, don’t eat it.
I think you have the teaching that ‘each and every human not worthy of salvation’ mixed up with the teaching that ‘each and every soul is of infinite worth’. Christianity teaches that no animal is worth more than a human. If fido and John were hanging over a bridge, to save fido would be a sin, it is a dog. To save John would be a good deed, even if fido dies. Yes, no human is worthy of salvation, but that does not mean that humans have no worth. Remember Christ died for US.

You are correct in saying that all responsibility should not just be placed on the facility. If the facility is being cruel for absolutely no reason then it should not be given any money from consumers.

It may be easy to say of these facilities, “If they cannot “afford” to operate properly, they shouldn’t operate at all.”, but you forget that people at these facilities have families they need to feed too. For them to simply stop running because they cannot afford a more humane way to kill animals would be irresponsible. Should the families of their employees starve just because Mary Moo Cow didn’t die just the right way?😃

Correct, some forms of production are terrible for workers, but i’m some workers would gladly do the job if it means that their loved ones wouldn’t have to starve, even those child workers. Istead of just shutting down these facilities we should work on better safety precausions, fairer wages, and more humane treatment of people.

And yes, meat is something we have to have or we would die. You could get your protein from beans and legumes, but only in part. Meat gives us all of the essential amino acids (ones our body cannot produce themselves) where beans or soy would only give you some of them. Soy itself contains too much estrogen, which is ok if you are a woman, but not as a man.

In short, it would be best if, instead of simply shutting down facilities that do not slaughter animals more humanely, we put pressure on them to do so, like by boycotting in mass or by only buying their meat products that you know were slaughtered humanely to send a message. But if, and i mean only if, for some reason these facilities cannot financially or legally change the way they do things, then to buy from them would be a venial sin if a sin at all, because through not fault of their own can they change things, and by not buying from them you keep them in a state where they cannot change, ironically:rolleyes:.

Also, friends, please keep in mind that some of the ways animals are slaughtered today would have been considered very humane in the past. Which is why I say that you should not consider it wrong to buy forom a facility that cannot afford the latest and most humane methods of slaughter, as that definition changes overtime.
 
I am curious to know, although i should probably start another thread, but i feel this is in the same line of thinking with this thread.

Yes animal cruelty is a sin, but is it sinful to run scientific experiments on animals, for say, the purpose of discovering a cure for a disease or even testing out makeup to make sure that when it hits the shelves it would not cause any harm to human customers? Some of you would already guess my answer:rolleyes:
 
I am curious to know, although i should probably start another thread, but i feel this is in the same line of thinking with this thread.

Yes animal cruelty is a sin, but is it sinful to run scientific experiments on animals, for say, the purpose of discovering a cure for a disease or even testing out makeup to make sure that when it hits the shelves it would not cause any harm to human customers? Some of you would already guess my answer:rolleyes:
I think it would be a sin not to run scientific experiments on animals before allowing the drug to be administered to humans.

I also think make-up must be tested before allowing humans to use it.

I’m sure animals’ brains have been operated on too in an effort to discover how the organ works.

Animals serve a purpose. I don’t think the animal should be used for its entire life. I think there comes a point when its service to man should be rewarded by retiring it at so it can enjoy life.
 
This type of discussion always frustrates me. Many pass judgement based on what they’ve seen publicized by PETA and other similar organizations. They neglect to realize that the reason these stories are publicized is b/c they are UNSUSUAL. In other words, most slaughterhouses and industrial farms do not mistreat their animals. What purpose would it serve to mistreat the animals. Some of the things I’ve heard mentioned as ‘common’ practice in industrial farms & slaughterhouses that are ‘cruel’ would take a more time and effort (therefore more money) than treating the animals properly.

To intentionally and irrationally (ie for no real reason) treat animals below our dignity is a sin (whether mortal or venial - not my decision/judgement). However, to use animals for a purpose, even if it entails a little fear or pain or discomfort, is not a sin - as long as the ‘suffering’ caused is proportionate to the benefit to humans.

It is not a sin to be a vegan (no animal products at all), but neither is it a sin to eat meat and/or use animal products. This is another situation (kind of like NFP) where each person (in NFP the couple) needs to discern the best route for them to be within their conscience on the issue. It is needless to argue the point b/c most likely we’re not going to change each other’s minds. There is merit to both sides of the issue, but no clear moral preference on the part of Mother Church.

Here is an answer from the AAA forum.

Happy eating!
 
This type of discussion always frustrates me. Many pass judgement based on what they’ve seen publicized by PETA and other similar organizations. They neglect to realize that the reason these stories are publicized is b/c they are UNSUSUAL. In other words, most slaughterhouses and industrial farms do not mistreat their animals. What purpose would it serve to mistreat the animals. Some of the things I’ve heard mentioned as ‘common’ practice in industrial farms & slaughterhouses that are ‘cruel’ would take a more time and effort (therefore more money) than treating the animals properly.

To intentionally and irrationally (ie for no real reason) treat animals below our dignity is a sin (whether mortal or venial - not my decision/judgement). However, to use animals for a purpose, even if it entails a little fear or pain or discomfort, is not a sin - as long as the ‘suffering’ caused is proportionate to the benefit to humans.

It is not a sin to be a vegan (no animal products at all), but neither is it a sin to eat meat and/or use animal products. This is another situation (kind of like NFP) where each person (in NFP the couple) needs to discern the best route for them to be within their conscience on the issue. It is needless to argue the point b/c most likely we’re not going to change each other’s minds. There is merit to both sides of the issue, but no clear moral preference on the part of Mother Church.

Here is an answer from the AAA forum.

Happy eating!
Ditto
 
I like to refer to the Bible. God gave laws in the Old Testament about how animals should be treated (rescuing your enemies animal, allowing them to eat as they are working in the fields, etc.) which is all based on compassion. God put them in our care to protect. Dominion does not mean abusive domination when He made man in His image before sin entered the world and said “Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground.” Gen. 1:26. Animals were created to be our companions, and to give God glory and praise (Psalm 150:6)… “all things were created through him and FOR him.” Colossians 1:16 (emphasis mine). Jesus actually not only died for our sins, but to redeem the whole world “and through him to reconcile all things for him, making peace by the blood of his cross (through him), whether those on earth or those in heaven.” Col. 1:20
As sin grew in this world, animals have suffered greatly for greed and the lust of their flesh.
God sees our hearts and WHY we allow and support animal sufferage. In Numbers 11:31-35 when the Israelites asked for meat, God sent them quail, but they died because they were greedy.
Surely mankind is more important than animals, but that doesn’t mean that God doesn’t care about each one. Psalm 145:9 says that the Lord is good to all and compassionate on all He has made. We WILL be held accountable someday concerning our treatment of animals as Hebrews 4:13 says. Animals are part of creation and we should examine our consciences. “A Sacred Duty” and “Christian Concern for All God’s Creatures” can both be seen online. Catholic Concern for Animals is a great website to learn Catholic theology concerning animals and our treatment of them in our walk with the Lord. 🙂
Blessings,
Jan
 
God gave man dominion over all the animals, so eating them is NOT a sin. Jesus ate fish. He is God. But if you were God, would you approve of someone pouring gasoline on a dog or a cat, light it on fire, and watch it scream while it burned to death? I would think not! It’s bad enough that human beings are terribly cruel to eachother because of sin, and those souls are lost without repentance.
 
Animal research is a huge money making industry. Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine gives some insight about animal research (I’ve given a presentation at a hospital using some of their information). Most, if not all, animal research is not needed. Their website is www.PCRM.org.
Also, most of our illnesses is from eating animal products. God created us (and animals) to have a plant-based diet. Then we would be healthier. Also all of the superbugs, swine flu, MRSA, mad cow disease, samonella, etc. are related to animals husbandry.
‘Family farms’ are not exempt from cruelty. They also take calves away from their mothers to confine them and to steal the mother’s milk for our ice cream, etc. We have been lied to for centuries and it’s never too late to learn the truth and live the truth.
 
It may be easy to say of these facilities, “If they cannot “afford” to operate properly, they shouldn’t operate at all.”, but you forget that people at these facilities have families they need to feed too. For them to simply stop running because they cannot afford a more humane way to kill animals would be irresponsible. Should the families of their employees starve just because Mary Moo Cow didn’t die just the right way?😃

Correct, some forms of production are terrible for workers, but i’m some workers would gladly do the job if it means that their loved ones wouldn’t have to starve, even those child workers. Istead of just shutting down these facilities we should work on better safety precausions, fairer wages, and more humane treatment of people.

And yes, meat is something we have to have or we would die. You could get your protein from beans and legumes, but only in part. Meat gives us all of the essential amino acids (ones our body cannot produce themselves) where beans or soy would only give you some of them. Soy itself contains too much estrogen, which is ok if you are a woman, but not as a man.
There are certainly those who work to get laws regarding animal care to change, which I think is a good thing. However, I would not continue to buy a product just to keep those employees at work, just as I would not buy another immoral product, say Playboy magazine, just to keep those people working. The means do not justify the end.

In most cases, it is best just to buy from a humane producer. That takes a bit more looking, and is more expensive (OTOH, there are serious systematic issues with the price of food in North America which contribute to many of our farming troubles here.) So a person might end of eating less meat, which is often a good idea anyway. We North Americans pee out a lot of expensive protein.

You are totally and completely mistaken about needing meat in the diet. It’s not actually all that hard to get complete proteins from non-meat sources. These days you can even get B12 from non-meat sources if you want, (I think they grow it on algae?) There are families in India that have been strickly vegetarian for over 10 generations, and they are still around.
 
This type of discussion always frustrates me. Many pass judgement based on what they’ve seen publicized by PETA and other similar organizations. They neglect to realize that the reason these stories are publicized is b/c they are UNSUSUAL. In other words, most slaughterhouses and industrial farms do not mistreat their animals. What purpose would it serve to mistreat the animals. Some of the things I’ve heard mentioned as ‘common’ practice in industrial farms & slaughterhouses that are ‘cruel’ would take a more time and effort (therefore more money) than treating the animals properly.

Well, what kind of practices are you thinking of? Having lived rurally and raised my own meat, I’m thinking of things like trucking cows long distances to feed lots and abattoirs, battery pens for chickens, industrial pig farms in general, sale barns, feed lots, etc. All of these things involve inhumane treatment. There are also any number of smaller infractions that go on often at slaughterhouses, such as denying animals that are waiting around food and especially water for longer than the recommended period, or plain lack of expertise sometimes by employees, who tend to have a high turnover rate.

It can be hard to look at the economics of many of these practices, because they are skewy. Feed lot beef, for example, should by rights be an expensive proposition, more so than grass fed beef. It should be too expensive to truck beef from the central US to me in Eastern Canada, when we can raise beef here. But subsidized oil and farming subsidies tend to confuse the issue, and industrial farming gets off without paying certain expenses that the public ends of paying for, such as waste control. And if you produce large volumes, a la Walmart, cost per unit goes down, enough to justify other kinds of expences that allow that amount of production, for example routine drugs.
 
I think it is all about selfishness. Many argue that we need meat to survive. If that were true there would be no vegans or vegetarians alive. Eating meat is about money for the producer of it and selfishness for the consumer of it. If we are so highly intelligent and civil, as the human race claims to be, then we would not eat meat. There is no such thing as “humane” slaughter. Just because it is quick and so called painless does not make it humane. Is it humane when a soldier gets shot in the head and dies instantly? It was quick and most likely painless (he wouldn’t have know what hit him it happened so fast). Is that humane? or is it slaughter? Is one life more important than another? And why would one be more important than another? Is the person who molests your child better than the dog who saved your child from drowning? Which of the two has more worth. Should Obama have swatted the fly? Maybe not. Maybe he should have just shooed it away. I think if we want to claim we are intelligent and civil that we should make every attempt to be kind to any and all living beings. I know people like to use the thing of disease too to justify killing. I’ve had flies land on plenty of my food and mice crawl thru it as well. I’m healthier than anyone I know. Personally, I think your government likes to scare you into thinking those things. I don’t remember the exact wording but I believe it says in the bible that it is not dirt that defileth a man, but his thoughts. As far as I know, all living things feel pain so we should make every attempt not to kill others. Maybe it doesn’t say exactly that in the bible but I do know God made me the way I am. He is the one that made me compassionate towards any living being, so if I am wrong I guess God screwed up with making me. Do you think you would ever see Jesus in a slaughter house “humanely” killing something or working on a factory farm making animals live in a way he never intended? An animal may be meat but we are too. That doesn’t make it right to eat another human. Doesn’t it say something like “as you do unto the least of them, you do unto me”? Would an animal or fly or rat not be the least of them in some peoples eyes? Look at the way we treat other humans because of there skin color or features and their language. If they don’t look, act, and talk the same language as me, then they feel no pain and deserve no respect. Animals, rats, insects look different and speak a different language. Maybe that’s the problem humans can’t relate to them. Maybe if they spoke English it would change things. It’s too bad humans think they are superior to every other living thing. Look what they have done to God’s world with their selfishness and greed. Do you think God made animals so that we could make them extinct? Or do you think that he created this world so we could pollute and destroy it? Do you think he wants us to fight in wars and kill each other. Isn’t that one of the commandments? Thou shalt not kill. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anywhere where it specifies who we should not be killing. Does it just refer to humans, our own race, those of the same religion, those in the same country. When I read it, I see, “don’t kill”.
 
You guys obviously are not in the meat business. My father-in-law owns cows and has them slaughtered at the local meat processing plant. I also have a student (I teach college Spanish) who works at a meat processing plant. They try to be as humane as possible according to my father-in-law and my student. We receive beef from a processing plant on a regular basis. I don’t think that we are sinning.
 
The whole situation with Obama swatting the fly has been overplayed by those animal rights groups. I mean seriously…then Im being crule to mosquitos and flies by having a zapper in my back yard.

I mean there is a passage in the bible that we are to use animals for our own useful purposes. I have to go and hunt for that verse. But it does say that we are not to abuse them or hurt them in any inhumane way. However if I remember correctly that was cows, mules, camels you know things like that. Im sure he didnt mean flies, mosquitos, and all those bugs that can transmite illness.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top