Is curiosity a vice for women only and how is that different from reading and studying about the Faith?

[mary15]

@Irishmom2 its really a tough situation to be in, but I have to trust that they want the best for me, and don’t want to hurt me. I mostly don’t understand what they say, except for a few times. I think they are helping me, but there are weird and trying times when I am afraid of them.

I trust them completely…and then I may be thinking too much, and I struggle with what I heard, such as, “remember curiosity is a vice.”

 

[Irishmom2]

We do not know who they are to you, so no one here is going to tell you to trust them.

 

[MNathaniel]

If curiosity is a vice, how is that wrong, and furthermore, is it wrong to hunger and thirst for knowledge and then to study it, if one is a Catholic Woman?

Should curious female Catholics, save all striving for knowledge on the faith for their male counterparts?

I am not sure why curiosity is a vice if one is simply seeking His face and to be edified.

I am wondering if I should just give up trying to read all of my books on the faith, and trust with childlike faith in my male leaders to know what to do in all things regarding the faith?

My life would be a lot less stressful if I could just let go and trust that the men will do all the thinking for me, and why risk having a curious mind if it will lead me into sin?

Lol wut.

Is this a joke post?

 

[mary15]

@MNathaniel, no. I was told to be obedient to what they are teaching me, such as not self annointing my forehead with oil because its what they demand of me.

I used to do it, but the preist who blessed my vial of oil was called to another parish in another state.

Its things like that that have me fearful that I will be disobedient to him, who is over me, is not a stranger and is very high up and well respected.

I am trying to keep my place in life and my correct deportment.

 

[Lou2U]

I was told to be obedient to what they are teaching me,

Who told you this? And what standing do they have within the Church to tell you to be obedient to them?

Have you grown more fearful since speaking with them?

 

[Vico]

If curiosity is a vice, how is that wrong, and furthermore, is it wrong to hunger and thirst for knowledge and then to study it, if one is a Catholic Woman?
…

Summa Theologiae, Second Part of the Second Part​

Studiousness (166) and its opposite vice, curiosity (167)​

Question 166. Studiousness​

Article 1. Whether the proper matter of studiousness is knowledge?​

On the contrary, It is written (Proverbs 27:11): “Study wisdom, my son, and make my heart joyful, that thou mayest give an answer to him that reproacheth.” Now study, which is commended as a virtue, is the same as that to which the Law urges. Therefore studiousness is properly about “knowledge.”

Question 167. Curiosity​

Article 1. Whether curiosity can be about intellective knowledge?​

Reply to Objection 1. Man’s good consists in the knowledge of truth; yet man’s sovereign good consists, not in the knowledge of any truth, but in the perfect knowledge of the sovereign truth, as the Philosopher states (Ethic. x, 7,8). Hence there may be sin in the knowledge of certain truths, in so far as the desire of such knowledge is not directed in due manner to the knowledge of the sovereign truth, wherein supreme happiness consists.

Article 2. Whether the vice of curiosity is about sensitive knowledge?​

I answer that, The knowledge of sensible things is directed to two things. For in the first place, both in man and in other animals, it is directed to the upkeep of the body, because by knowledge of this kind, man and other animals avoid what is harmful to them, and seek those things that are necessary for the body’s sustenance. On the second place, it is directed in a manner special to man, to intellective knowledge, whether speculative or practical. Accordingly to employ study for the purpose of knowing sensible things may be sinful in two ways. First, when the sensitive knowledge is not directed to something useful, but turns man away from some useful consideration. Hence Augustine says (Confess. x, 35), “I go no more to see a dog coursing a hare in the circus; but in the open country, if I happen to be passing, that coursing haply will distract me from some weighty thought, and draw me after it . . . and unless Thou, having made me see my weakness, didst speedily admonish me, I become foolishly dull.” Secondly, when the knowledge of sensible things is directed to something harmful, as looking on a woman is directed to lust: even so the busy inquiry into other people’s actions is directed to detraction. on the other hand, if one be ordinately intent on the knowledge of sensible things by reason of the necessity of sustaining nature, or for the sake of the study of intelligible truth, this studiousness about the knowledge of sensible things is virtuous.

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/3167.htm

 

[MNathaniel]

I am sad in general as well that there are no women’s bible studies at all in my area.

But the men continue onwards, through the pandemic, being edified and supported with online bible studies.

I guess I should stay at home and make dinner? I seriously do not understand why we women could not join in the bible study too!

It’s comments like this that make you look like a troll. If you want to be part of a women’s bible study group and one doesn’t already exist in your local area, start a women’s bible study group. No man is stopping you. (You even say the men are doing theirs online… there’s a thousand ways you could join into studying the Bible online! No one’s got a padlock on your computer, have they? Why do you keep talking as if other people have power (or desire) to prevent you from pursuing the knowledge you want to learn? There may be random individuals here or there who actually want you to not-learn… but that is SO rare, and not a Catholic thing at all.)

Don’t make infantile comments like: “I guess I should stay at home and make dinner?” or “My life would be a lot less stressful if I could just let go and trust that the men will do all the thinking for me”.

That just comes off as passive aggressive, pretending-to-be-ignorant-and-weak trolling. You’re presumably an adult human. Study the Bible online if you want to study the Bible online. Join (or start) a local women’s faith study group when the pandemic ends. Stop pretending any person (man or woman) has the ability to prevent you from doing so, unless they’re in your house at the moment with a gun pointed at your head. Develop a thicker skin so you’re not emotionally impacted by someone simply failing to smile at the book you’re reading. Learn to ignore anyone (man or woman) who gives you advice contrary to Catholic teaching. Learn the difference between areas where it’s proper to follow the advice of others, and areas where you should recognize that advice as contrary to God’s Will. You’ll note that learning this difference requires growing in knowledge. So by all means keep studying your faith, through reliable resources (like anything put out by ‘Catholic Answers’, for a start.)

 

[White_Tree]

Okay, St. Paul has those infamous bits about women teaching or even asking questions in church – he’s agin’ it – but even if applied strictly those don’t forbid reading and learning as long as you’re not raising your hand like Hermione Granger during Mass itself.

Many scholars believe those quotes to be later additions by scribes or outright forgeries.

The paragraph in 1 Cor 14:34-35 appears in different locations in different manuscripts, and seems to directly contradict 1 Cor 11:5, which talks about women prophesying, and Romans 16:1-7, 15, which lists a number of female leaders of the early Church. That suggests 1 Cor 14:34-35 was likely a later addition by a scribe (e.g. a note in the margin), rather than the actual words of Paul.

As for 1 Timothy 2: 8-15, many scholars believe that whole epistle to be a forgery. It uses language that does not show up in the the epistles that are known to be written by Paul, and 2/3rds of the unique words it used were not common in Christianity until the 2nd Century, well after Paul’s era.

Even the many of the words it does share with his other epistles take on a different meaning in 1 Timothy than they do in his other writings. οἶκος (“house”) in 1 Tim 3:15 is used to refer to the house of God, but everywhere else Paul uses it, he is referring to the house of a private citizen. πίστις (“faith”) in 1 Tim 1:2 and 5:8 is used to refer to the religion of Christianity, but that is a meaning that wouldn’t have developed until much later, when Christianity had become more established, and he doesn’t use πίστις in that context in the letters that scholars can confidently ascribe to him.

So people who use Paul’s letters to justify claims that women should be subservient, silent, etc. are most likely misquoting the apostle, who, at least in the opinion of most modern scholars, never said anything like that.

 

[mary15]

@MNathanielI promise you, I am not a troll. I am afraid if I do not obey I will die. I am sorry I cannot be more clear about this situation.

I got some very helpful answers here.

Thanks, everyone for helping out.

 

[MNathaniel]

promise you, I am not a troll. I am afraid if I do not obey I will die. I am sorry I cannot be more clear about this situation.

This is starting to sound serious. Do you feel in literal, immediate danger of your life? Do you need to call 911?

 

[Godfollower]

Here’s what the Church says about studying God:

“Faith seeks understanding”: it is intrinsic to faith that a believer desires to know better the One in whom he has put his faith, and to understand better what He has revealed; a more penetrating knowledge will in turn call forth a greater faith, increasingly set afire by love. the grace of faith opens “the eyes of your hearts” to a lively understanding of the contents of Revelation: that is, of the totality of God’s plan and the mysteries of faith, of their connection with each other and with Christ, the centre of the revealed mystery. “The same Holy Spirit constantly perfects faith by his gifts, so that Revelation may be more and more profoundly understood.” In the words of St. Augustine, “I believe, in order to understand; and I understand, the better to believe.”

Catechism of the Catholic Church Para. 158.

It is natural to want to know more about God. Yes, you should study Him.

 

[Lou2U]

I am afraid if I do not obey I will die.

Please, can you tell us more about this? Where has this fear come from? How does it manifest itself?

 

[mary15]

@LumineDiei I can’t say.

At the very least I did get some very very kind and generous feedback.

God bless you all.

 

[mary15]

@camoderator please close my thread. I got beautiful and kind help.

Thank you.

God bless CAF

People can pm me if they would like. I cannot say much though.

 

[Lou2U]

However, the ONLY person that has “spiritual authority over you”, regardless of your location on the planet, is your parish priest.

This. Please keep this in mind, OP. I don’t know where you are, but please be safe, and know it is not wrong for you to be curious.

 

[LilyM]

This is getting all too confusing with the OP and the people she is dealing with. Let’s clear things up, shall we?
It sounds like probably a cultural thing you are dealing with in regards to the lesser view of women. However, the ONLY person that has “spiritual authority over you”, regardless of your location on the planet, is your parish priest. Is it an ordained member of the clergy (priest or deacon) that is telling you these things about your place in the Church?

And remember even.priests are human and sinners - and sometimes can.be wrong in what they tell you.