Is Darwin's Theory of Evolution True? Part Three

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Sure social sciences are soft sciences and follow the scientific method less directly but still follow thr scientific method to validate truth, and unfortunately no science has proved that soul or spirit is detectable from the scientific method.
I’m not sure what you mean by “soft sciences”. The ideas and measurements are most definitely of higher order structures of reality and because of that, such influences as philosophy and ideology are more easily seen to play a role. Evolutionary theory is beset by the same problem, which has been here described as materialism being passed as science because it is about matter.

I don’t think anyone expects the scientific method to be capable of proving the existence of a soul any more than it can prove the existence of itself. That there is a spirit and soul is clear to anyone who hasn’t made themselves oblivious to the obvious. The first time you cry because you are hungry or wet, you know there is someone here suffering and something out there that relieves it. I do expect any scienctific study of mankind in particular and life in general to acknowledge the soul’s existence, which is as certain as that of atoms and molecules.
 
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I agree, but the scientific method wouldn’t be such a knowledge producer if it didn’t have limits.

The Church condemns hijacking evolution for errant philosophy or heresy. Just like a car could be hijacked to run into people, it doesn’t make the car bad in itself.
I’m not sure what you are getting at in this first statement.

I’m asserting after all, that it leads people to believe in an illusion because the standard theory of evolution claims to be studying the origins of mankind using the wrong operational definition. The limits are not with the scientific method but the philosophical underpinings of evolutionary theory that chooses to focus on the material in speaking about genetic mutations as bing the source of our existence.

On the other side of the coin, we have “natural selection” which is an abstraction without a valid material definition. Why limit what we can say about organisms and not do so when we speak of the environment.

BTW: the car in the analogy is science, the hijacker - evolutionary theory.
 
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I’m not sure what you mean by “soft sciences”.
The ideas and measurements are most definitely of higher order structures of reality and because of that, such influences as philosophy and ideology are more easily seen to play a role.
Philosophy and ideology can influence scientists and the questions asked, but it cannot influence hard facts and data, and so the data which supports theories.
I do expect any scienctific study of mankind in particular and life in general to acknowledge its existence, which is as certain as that of atoms and molecules.
Good luck finding a scientific study that acknowledges spirit. You may be sorely disappointed.
I’m not sure what you are getting at in this first statement.
My point is you can’t open up the scientific method to test things untestable, like spiritual things via material. People have already tried and failed. It does not mean that it doesn’t exist, but that our belief in Spirit is based on faith, not on scientifically verifiable proof.
I’m asserting after all, that it leads people to believe in an illusion because the standard theory of evolution claims to be studying the origins of mankind using the wrong operational definition. The limits are not with the scientific method but the philosophical underpinings of evolutionary theory that chooses to focus on the material when speaking about genetic mutations.
There is no other option but to focus on the material, because once it starts focusing on the spiritual, it becomes philosophy or religion.
Please note that “natural selection” is an abstraction without a valid material definition.

BTW: the car in the analogy is science, the hijacker - evolutionary theory.
Natural selection is the differential survival and reproduction of individuals due to differences in phenotype. The exact meaning is concrete, as for material definitions, what is that? Definitions made of matter 😛 hahaha

I don’t follow how evolutionary theory hijacks science. Theories by themselves are created and manipulated by people, scientists, and are not themselves actors or movers or doers of any kind.
 
Name one other occasion when a Pope has declared that Satan has entered the Church.
First of all, in what context did this Pope say this? Do you have a reference so I can look at it in more detail?
 
Scientists find 10 new defense systems used by bacteria:
So? Did these defence systems evolve, were they created or did they arise from some currently unknown cause?

The paper is interesting, but it does not say anything about the correctness or otherwise of evolutionary theory.

rossum
 
It appears that scientists discover things that were there all the time in various living things. I would say that identifying 10 newly discovered defense mechanisms reduces the chance that they are there by accident, and more likely, by design.
 
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Random mutations happen at random times. Some happen before. The Luria-Delbruck experiment confirms that mutations occur randomly, and some happen to be useful to the organism in future.

Do you have experimental proof that Vishnu, or your deity of choice, is causing these mutations?

rossum
 
The programming God set forth is behind it.

Again, you bring up same experiment as if all the more recent research is null and void.

But I ask again, are these two your best offerings and if I successfully rebut you will convert?
 
This is a common misapplication of the principle of entropy.
The remarks were in reference to the effect of random activity on DNA. The claim by evolutionary theory is that it can add information to the genome. But, random changes that occur at a molecular level due to physical properties alone and not organized by an organizing external agency, are universally destructive.
consider a closed system
Forgive the pun but you may be closing in on what I’m saying. There is an order to a living organism that makes it a system existing in relation to a larger system in which it participates. That organizing principle is the soul, eternal and rational in mankind, created by God.
You cannot consider the plant in isolation
I would think you have to consider the plant in isolation, as a closed sysytem in itself as you stated above, but as it exists in relation to the sun. Such is the relational nature of any soul.
It is not about organization or fuzzy concepts of complexity.
I’m trying to keep it simple so we can both know what we are talking about. I’m sorry you have to resort to disparaging adjectives.

But, let’s put complexity or order on a back burner for now, and ramp up the conversation a notch; let’s think of an example - a room full of air. The particles are flying around in every which direction with different and changing velocities. At any given time, they will have a particular distribution in the room. The number of possible distributions, aka microstates is the measure of its entropy.

Now let’s imagine a living cell, with its much more fixed structure. The number of possible locations for its constituent molecules and their energies is constrained by the structure that is maintained by its living physiology. Its entropy is low. It is more ordered and that order is more complex than that of a similarly sized drop of disorganized organic molecules. It has fewer microstates and lower entropy.

In order for the soup of carbon-based simple molecules to come together to bring about the very complex molecules required to them go on and make them work together harmoniously as they do in a cell, requires a massive decrease in entropy, which can only be accomplished by the action of an external intelligent agency. A cell is not a specific form into which a mixture of organic molecules will organize themselves spontaneously.
There is no such law in physics that says the shoes in your closet must always tend to get separated, or that crystal lattice structures must always become less crystalline.
Whoosh! Right over my head. I have no idea what you are getting at.

Shoe laces will decay, they don’t untie.

And crystalline structures must be acted upon by the physical forces around them to cause a change. I would think that this more supports the claim that random change does not make things more organized or more complex - it breaks things up.
 
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“A cell is not a specific form into which a mixture of organic molecules will organize themselves spontaneously.” /end quote

This appears to be the case. An external intelligent agency is required.
 
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LeafByNiggle:
This is a common misapplication of the principle of entropy.
The remarks were in reference to the effect of random activity on DNA. The claim by evolutionary theory is that it can add information to the genome. But, random changes that occur at a molecular level due to physical properties alone and not organized by an organizing external agency, are universally destructive.
You established the context of physics when you said:
…let’s see what physics actually says:
Entropy is a measure of randomness.
Within physics, entropy means only one thing: the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. In other contexts entropy might mean something a little different, like a measure of disorganization. But that is not physics. You said physics. So in that context, entropy only means energy available for doing work. In that sense, life does not make entropy go backwards. That was the only point I was making.
 
I’m pretty sure that all religious traditions believe in truth by revelation, holy texts, authority of the religious institution, and faith. You see the world as Catholic / non-Catholic.

But an outsider isn’t engaged in Pascal’s wager between believing or not believing We have exposure to a couple dozen major religions and countless spiritual beliefs. Given that religious traditions so greatly contradict each other, there are only three possibilities:
  1. They are all made up by people in their attempt to understand the world around them.
  2. One of them has it right, and the others are all made up in an attempt to explain the world around us.
  3. None of them has it right.
Your position is #2. But this position seems pretty unlikely to me. I believe if there IS a God, and my philosophy and world view leave plenty of room for that possibility, I would expect that ALL of the religious traditions and texts, including the Bible, touch only .000001% of what God actually is. How could it be otherwise?

So the smugness of a position of knowing comes up against an obvious question: how big is God, and how COULD you know more than .0000001% of his greatness, his plan, etc.? I don’t think your source of knowledge is nearly as complete as you think-- despite faith, the Bible, revelation, etc.
 
As humans we are limited as to God’s attributes.

There are many worthy attempts to explain the world around us. Many have realized the same truths through reason alone.

But this may help.

I. The Unity and Trinity of God

God, our Creator and Lord, can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things.
God’s existence is not merely an object of rational knowledge, but also an object of supernatural faith.
God’s Nature is incomprehensible to men.
The blessed in Heaven possess an immediate intuitive knowledge of the Divine Essence.
The immediate vision of God transcends the natural power of cognition of the human soul, and is therefore supernatural.
The soul, for the immediate vision of God, requires the light of glory.
God’s Essence is also incomprehensible to the blessed in Heaven.
The divine attributes are really identical among themselves and with the Divine Essence.
God is absolutely perfect.
God is actually infinite in every perfection.
God is absolutely simple.
There is only one God.
The one God is, in the ontological sense, the true God.
God possesses an infinite power of cognition.
God is absolute veracity.
God is absolutely faithful.
God is absolute ontological goodness in Himself and in relation to others.
God is absolute moral goodness or holiness.
God is absolute benignity.
God is absolutely immutable.
God is eternal.
God is immense or absolutely immeasurable.
God is everywhere present in created space.
God’s knowledge is infinite.
God’s knowledge is purely and simply actual.
God’s knowledge is subsistent.
God knows all that is merely possible by the knowledge of simple intelligence.
God knows all real things in the past, the present and the future.
By the knowledge of vision, God also foresees the future free acts of rational creatures with infallible certainty.
God’s Divine Will is infinite.
God loves Himself of necessity, but loves and wills the creation of extra-divine things, on the other hand, with freedom.
God is almighty.
God is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth.
God is infinitely just.
God is infinitely merciful.
In God there are three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each of the three Persons possesses the one (numerical) Divine Essence.
In God there are two internal divine processions.
The Divine Persons, not the Divine Nature, are the subject of the internal divine processions (in the active and in the passive sense).
The Second Divine Person proceeds from the First Divine Person by generation, and therefore is related to Him as Son to Father.
The Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and from the Son as from a single principle through a single spiration.
The Holy Ghost does not proceed through generation but through spiration.
The relations in God are really identical with the Divine Nature.
The Three Divine Persons are in one another.
All the ad extra activities of God are common to the three Persons.
 
II. God the Creator

All that exists outside God was, in its whole substance, produced out of nothing by God.
God was moved by His goodness to create the world.
The world was created for the glorification of God.
The Three Divine Persons are one single, common principle of creation.
God created the world free from exterior compulsion and inner necessity.
God has created a good world.
The world had a beginning in time.
God alone created the world.
God keeps all created things in existence.
God, through His Providence, protects and guides all that He has created.
The first man was created by God.
Man consists of two essential parts - a material body and a spiritual soul.
The rational soul per se is the essential form of the body.
Every human being possesses an individual soul.
God has conferred on man a supernatural destiny.
Our first parents, before the fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace.
In addition to sanctifying grace, our first parents were endowed with the preternatural gift of bodily immortality.
Our first parents in Paradise sinned grievously through transgression of the Divine probationary commandment.
Through sin our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God.
Our first parents became subject to death and to the dominion of the devil.
Adam’s sin is transmitted to his posterity, not by imitation but by descent.
Original sin is transmitted by natural generation.
In the state of original sin man is deprived of sanctifying grace and all that this implies, as well as of the preternatural gifts of integrity.
Souls who depart this life in the state of original sin are excluded from the Beatific Vision of God.
In the beginning of time God created spiritual essences (angels) out of nothing.
The nature of angels is spiritual.
The evil spirits (demons) were created good by God; they became evil through their own fault.
The secondary task of the good angels is the protection of men and care for their salvation.
The devil possesses a certain dominion over mankind by reason of Adam’s sin.
 
III. God the Redeemer

Jesus Christ is true God and true Son of God.
Christ assumed a real body, not an apparent body.
Christ assumed not only a body but also a rational soul.
Christ was truly generated and born of a daughter of Adam, the Virgin Mary.
The Divine and human natures are united hypostatically in Christ, that is, joined to each other in one Person.
In the hypostatic union each of the two natures of Christ continues unimpaired, untransformed, and unmixed with each other.
Each of the two natures in Christ possesses its own natural will and its own natural mode of operation.
The hypostatic union of Christ’s human nature with the Divine Logos took place at the moment of conception.
The hypostatic union was effected by the three Divine Persons acting in common.
Only the second Divine Person became Man.
Not only as God but also as man Jesus Christ is the natural Son of God.
The God-Man Jesus Christ is to be venerated with one single mode of worship, the absolute worship of latria which is due to God alone.
Christ’s Divine and human characteristics and activities are to be predicated of the one Word Incarnate.
Christ was free from all sin, from original sin as well as from all personal sin.
Christ’s human nature was passable.
The Son of God became man in order to redeem men.
Fallen man cannot redeem himself.
The God-man Jesus Christ is a high priest.
Christ offered Himself on the Cross as a true and proper sacrifice.
Christ by His sacrifice on the Cross has ransomed us and reconciled us with God.
Christ, through His passion and death, merited award from God.
After His death, Christ’s Soul, which was separated from His Body, descended into the underworld.
On the third day after His death, Christ rose gloriously from the dead.
Christ ascended body and soul into Heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father.
 
VI. The Catholic Church

The Catholic Church was founded by the God-Man Jesus Christ.
Christ founded the Catholic Church in order to continue His work of redemption for all time.
Christ gave His Church a hierarchical constitution.
The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the Bishops.
Christ appointed the Apostle Peter to be the first of all the Apostles and to be the visible Head of the whole Catholic Church, by appointing him immediately and personally to the primacy of jurisdiction.
According to Christ’s ordinance, Peter is to have successors in his Primacy over the whole Catholic Church and for all time.
The successors of Peter in the Primacy are the Bishops of Rome.
The Pope possesses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Catholic Church, not merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the government of the Church.
The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.
By virtue of Divine right, the bishops possess an ordinary power of government over their dioceses.
Christ founded the Catholic Church.
Christ is the Head of the Catholic Church.
In the final decision on doctrines concerning faith and morals, the Catholic Church is infallible.
The primary object of the Infallibility is the formally revealed truths of Christian Doctrine concerning faith and morals.
The totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or scattered over the earth propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to he held by all the faithful.
The Church founded by Christ is unique and one.
The Church founded by Christ is holy.
The Church founded by Christ is catholic.
The Church founded by Christ is apostolic.
Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.
 
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