Is death a momentary experience after Christ?

[Sam_777]

Shall I understand from Luke 23:43, when JESUS told that person “today you will be with me in paradise”, that death became a “momentary experience” where previously was a “paused experience till the judgement day”.

 

[JerryZ]

Shall I understand from Luke 23:43, when JESUS told that person “today you will be with me in paradise”, that death became a “momentary experience” where previously was a “paused experience till the judgement day”.

Before Christ’s atonement for the original sin all the dead where in the “sheol” a holding place and they were “waiting” expectant Jesus arrival.

You can find references to this in the Bible

Jesus opened the pearly gates of Heaven to us and if He promised the good thief that he would be with him in Heaven then yes that is what happened.

That by the way is the credo He went to the sheol to liberate the souls awaiting there.

Not the hell of the damned.

 

[meltzerboy]

Shall I understand from Luke 23:43, when JESUS told that person “today you will be with me in paradise”, that death became a “momentary experience” where previously was a “paused experience till the judgement day”.

I think the meaning of Jesus’ statement may depend in large part on the translation of the word “paradise” and perhaps the word “today” as well.

 

[MarcoPolo]

that death became a “momentary experience” where previously was a “paused experience till the judgement day”.

What’s the difference between a “pause” and “moment” in this question? Are you meaning to ask what the specific amount of “time” elapses after death before entering heaven?

 

[jcrichton]

Shall I understand from Luke 23:43, when JESUS told that person “today you will be with me in paradise”, that death became a “momentary experience” where previously was a “paused experience till the judgement day”.

Hi, Sam!

…since Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life, it could well be that the man’s Confession was so pure that Jesus decided to take his spirit directly to Heaven when his temporal life ceased.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Sam_777]

Before Christ’s atonement for the original sin all the dead where in the “sheol” a holding place and they were “waiting” expectant Jesus arrival.

What is the difference between “sheol” & “****purgatory”?

Are you meaning to ask what the specific amount of “time” elapses after death before entering heaven?

Yes, although actual time will not be an issue for the dead person since it will be like when we sleep we wake up but we do not feel the time has elapsed.

it could well be that the man’s Confession was so pure that Jesus decided to take his spirit directly to Heaven when his temporal life ceased.

I do not have an issue with that, but I want to know for example if my Muslim relative died today, can me “Sam” say okay now he/she knows that he/she was wrong by following a false prophet, or my relative will not know till the resurrection day?

Angel

 

[JerryZ]

What is the difference between “sheol” & “****purgatory”?

Yes, although actual time will not be an issue for the dead person since it will be like when we sleep we wake up but we do not feel the time has elapsed.

I do not have an issue with that, but I want to know for example if my Muslim relative died today, can me “Sam” say okay now he/she knows that he/she was wrong by following a false prophet, or my relative will not know till the resurrection day?

Nope Purgatory would have no meaning prior to Jesus’s act of opening Heaven.

John 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

Sheol was one of those mansion holding the faithfull that awaited Jesus judgement
Many probably went to Purgatory, others to Heaven and the rest …

On the salvation of a Muslim the Catholic Church teaches that as he is not aware of Jesus he can Still be saved through Him if he followed the Moral Law written in his hearth.
In other words did he follow the precepts of Islam, was he charitable toward his fellow human beings, and lead a morally good life, then we have confidence in the mercy of the Lord. As you know the Church does not condemn anyone to Hell She hopes all are saved.

 

[JerryZ]

Hi, Sam!

…since Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life, it could well be that the man’s Confession was so pure that Jesus decided to take his spirit directly to Heaven when his temporal life ceased.

Maran atha!

Angel

Yes he did rebuke the bad thief that scorned Jesus, He aknowledged that his death was just for he had sinned but Jesus was an innocent man and he asked the Lord to have mercy on him when he went to His Father.

He showed repentance and accepted his death as just, Jesus that can see his heart told him he would be with Him that very day in Paradise.

People ask if he had to go through purgatory, but purgatory is reserved to people that die in God Grace but retain the temporal effects of their sin.
This guy walked the way to Calvary with the Lord and was executed for his sin, I would submit to you that he paid the temporal punishment here on earth with his life.

 

[Sam_777]

Sheol was one of those mansion holding the faithfull that awaited Jesus judgement

So now (after JESUS) we do not have “Sheol” any more?

On the salvation of a Muslim…

Actully, I’m not worried about the salvation issue (I know about CCC 841), but my concern is will that person know that he/she was right or wrong immediately after his/her death?

 

[jcrichton]

Originally Posted by jcrichton
it could well be that the man’s Confession was so pure that Jesus decided to take his spirit directly to Heaven when his temporal life ceased.

…since God exist both in time and outside of time (Spirit) and since He is the Eternal “I AM” (past, present, future are simultaneously opened/revealed to Him), He could well chose to visit us directly at the end of our temporal existence or at a mass resurrection at the final day before Judgment… or it could well be that Jesus Himself Preached to the spirits imprisoned (past, temporaries, future) all at once and all of humanity have been visited, in the Spirit, and our fates known to God and to the individual (though man temporal existence limits what he can understand/know)…

…it is difficult to say… however, we must take into consideration that a relative of yours could well be a person after God’s own Heart and that he/she got caught up in the mundane and was not strong enough to recognize the Creator and Savior as Jesus Christ… but at the very moment of his/her death a pure and contrite heart may search out the Truth and the Holy Spirit, Who is also our Advocate (Paraclete) can intercede on his/her behalf (as it happened with Saul on the way to Damascus) and in a spiritual flood Jesus, the Truth, is fully Revealed… and your relative, in the spirit, may accept Christ as the Only Lord and Savior…

…there are only two factors that we can consider as possible outcome: 1) the Believer will enter into the presence of God, through Faith in Christ, and 2) the non-Believer will never enter God’s presence… however it happens, for both Christians and non-Christians, God’s Holy Spirit will make our innermost being known to God and those who are Christ’s will resurrect into Eternal Life with God and those who reject Christ will resurrect into eternal separation from God, the Second Death.

Originally Posted by jcrichton
Angel

…I’m thinking that your query refers to my signature: “Angel;” …if that’s so… that’s my actual name… in the past, in another site, there was some confusion as to the jcrichton screen name (some one else was posting as jcrichton) so I decided to sign my entries so that if there were other jcs about we could be told appart… if the confusion was intentional and malice was involved then the perpetrator/s would have no excuse since they would be both using the screen name and one of my personal names–I’m Latino so its a male name, not the US’s usage!

 

[jcrichton]

Yes he did rebuke the bad thief that scorned Jesus, He aknowledged that his death was just for he had sinned but Jesus was an innocent man and he asked the Lord to have mercy on him when he went to His Father.

He showed repentance and accepted his death as just, Jesus that can see his heart told him he would be with Him that very day in Paradise.

People ask if he had to go through purgatory, but purgatory is reserved to people that die in God Grace but retain the temporal effects of their sin.
This guy walked the way to Calvary with the Lord and was executed for his sin, I would submit to you that he paid the temporal punishment here on earth with his life.

…I also found telling his confidence in Christ’s Power and Authority:

Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Sam_777]

God’s Holy Spirit will make our innermost being known to God and those who are Christ’s will resurrect into Eternal Life with God and those who reject Christ will resurrect into eternal separation from God, the Second Death…

“Second Death” or a punishment then Eternal Life?

 

[jcrichton]

“Second Death” or a punishment then Eternal Life?

…well, those who reject Christ will be resurrected and will exist in eternal damnation–the temporal body will cease to exist… whether morphed into a hybrid (human/spirit) or be totally remade, I do not know… but the new creature will be immortal, hence eternal damnation or Second Death:

Let anyone who can hear, listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches: for those who prove victorious will come to no harm from the second death." (Apocalypse 2:11)

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection; the second death has no power over them but they will be priests of God and of Christ and reign with him for a thousand years.

14 Death and Hades were emptied of the dead that were in them; and every one was judged as his deeds deserved. Then Death and Hades were hurled into the burning lake. This burning lake is the second death; 15 and anybody whose name could not be found written in the book of life was hurled into the burning lake. (Apocalypse 20:6, 14-15)

But the legacy for cowards, for those who break their word, or worship obscenities, for murderers and the sexually immoral, and for sorcerers, worshippers of false gods or any other sort of liars, is the second death in the burning lake of sulphur.’ (Apocalypse 21:8)

…there will be Both, punishment and bliss… they both will be eternal; but the Wrath of God is not as portrayed in the movies… where a harsh Divine Being makes people suffer… the Second Death is a choice that people make:

Today, I call heaven and earth to witness against you: I am offering you life or death, blessing or curse. Choose life, then, so that you and your descendants may live, (Deuteronomy 20:19)

18 ‘Come, let us talk this over,’ says Yahweh. ‘Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. 19 If you are willing to obey, you shall eat the good things of the earth. 20 But if you refuse and rebel, the sword shall eat you instead – for Yahweh’s mouth has spoken.’ (Isaiah 1:18-20)

20 But the rest of the human race, who escaped death by these plagues, refused either to abandon their own handiwork or to stop worshipping devils, the idols made of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood that can neither see nor hear nor move. 21 Nor did they give up their murdering, or witchcraft, or fornication or stealing. (Apocalypse 9:20-21)

9 but though people were scorched by the fierce heat of it, they cursed the name of God who had the power to cause such plagues, and they would not repent and glorify him. 10 The fifth angel emptied his bowl over the throne of the beast and its whole empire was plunged into darkness. People were biting their tongues for pain, 11 but instead of repenting for what they had done, they cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and sores. (Apocalypse 16:9-11)

Maran atha!

Angel