Is dialog impossible?

[ralphinal]

Alright, I do not want this to degrade into a bashing thread. This is a simple question that does not have a simple answer.

Are the cultural differences between Muslims and Christians, once coupled with the Theological issues, too much to overcome, making true dialog impossible?

Are both sides unable to actually discuss with the other?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Alright, I do not want this to degrade into a bashing thread. This is a simple question that does not have a simple answer.

Are the cultural differences between Muslims and Christians, once coupled with the Theological issues, too much to overcome, making true dialog impossible?

Are both sides unable to actually discuss with the other?

I don’t think dialog is impossible.In fact it’s occuring all across the land in cities and towns. Denominations get together to work on common goals of helping people. While this might not be possible on some forums which seem always to degenerate into argument, in real life, most Christians and Muslims and Jews get along well.

 

[jakasaki]

Alright, I do not want this to degrade into a bashing thread. This is a simple question that does not have a simple answer.

Are the cultural differences between Muslims and Christians, once coupled with the Theological issues, too much to overcome, making true dialog impossible?

Are both sides unable to actually discuss with the other?

Can you recall any warm and fuzzie feelings between muslims and Christians? You know, something you can actually say… ahhhh… we are all making a difference.

The fact is that islam wants nothing to do with the rest of the world unless the rest of the world submits to islam.

There is no way out…

Perhaps I’m wrong and the future will change, but it’s just getting worse!

 

[ralphinal]

I don’t think dialog is impossible.In fact it’s occuring all across the land in cities and towns. Denominations get together to work on common goals of helping people. While this might not be possible on some forums which seem always to degenerate into argument, in real life, most Christians and Muslims and Jews get along well.

On the micro level, perhaps. What about the macro?

Denominations are one thing. All Americans are Americans, even if some are Baptists. Is it possible for American baptists to reach an understanding with Iranian Muslims?

 

[sedonaman]

Are both sides unable to actually discuss with the other?

You’ve undoubtedly seen some of my posts here, and I’m convinced that dialog is possible only if you have a Western English to Muslim English dictionary in one hand and use it to dissect thoroughly each [and I mean **each] English word they use. Words like “God,” “human being”, “neighbor”, “peace”, “rights”, with definitions we take for granted, have completely different, and often conditional, meanings to Muslims.

Also, their logic is different.

Are the cultural differences between Muslims and Christians, once coupled with the Theological issues, too much to overcome, making true dialog impossible?

You see? You’ve already made a mistake: assuming that Muslim “culture” and Muslim “religion” are separate as are most Western societies.

“When I use a word, . . . it means precisely what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” – Humpty Dumpty

 

[Publisher]

Alright, I do not want this to degrade into a bashing thread. This is a simple question that does not have a simple answer.

Are the cultural differences between Muslims and Christians, once coupled with the Theological issues, too much to overcome, making true dialog impossible?

Are both sides unable to actually discuss with the other?

Not only is it possible…but it is happening…if one considers Friends “Christians” then we have had dialog with the Muslim community in our area. We have shared…prayer time together.

Perhaps Friends have an advantage in that our Meeting houses are very plain with no religious images that prevent Muslims from sharing in our Meeting for Worship. While I have not had the opportunity to attend Mosque, I have sat in a “prayer group” where we shared common passages from the Bible and the Qur’an.

As Friends we have sought to “speak to that of God” within our Muslim acquaintences.

I think it takes patience and forebearance for all concerned.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Are both sides unable to actually discuss with the other?

They are able. Just look at Averroes! He was wrong, of course:

 

[chrisse]

Dialogue is never impossible, will it achieve the desired outcome is perhaps a better question. And then, of course, whose desired outcome.

Dialogue assumes the parties in dialogue truly have the intention of the same outcome. In the dialogue between Christians, in particular of course the Vatican, and muslims, in particular of course the representatives from the Common Word, it can be argued that both parties in dialogue desired outcome is the Truth as they have received from God.

So, is the Truth received from God the same for Christians and for Muslims? If it is, then yes, dialogue is possible and a successful outcome probable. If it is not, then we have some difficulties as one party in the dialogue would have to compromise their Truth.

 

[sedonaman]

I don’t think dialog is impossible. In fact it’s occuring all across the land in cities and towns.

Not the kind you think. Here is an example of Muslim “outreach” freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1691391/posts .

Christians always want to do the charitable thing and develop “understanding” by finding “common ground” through “dialog”, but see how “dialog” in the case of Islam plays out over time:

“…It is instructive and sobering to consider a case study of a well-known American seminary, to see how sharply different ideas about Christian outreach and dialogue with Islam have played out over time. … Hartford Seminary in Connecticut, one of America’s oldest theological schools, was founded in 1834 by Calvinists who left Yale College to found a new institution of Christian learning. In the early decades of the twentieth century Hartford was a leading institution in the evangelization of Muslims. … in 1973, Hartford created the Duncan Black MacDonald Center for the Study of Islam and Christian-Muslim Relations. Its mission is to nurture Christian-Muslim understanding. In 1998, the center hired Ingrid Mattson, a Canadian-born convert to Islam with a doctorate in Islamic studies from the University of Chicago, to direct the chaplaincy program. Mattson is also the first female president of the Islamic Society of North America. In 2000, an Islamic chaplaincy program was launched at Hartford to train Muslims for chaplaincy roles in the American military. The number of students taking the Islamic chaplaincy training has steadily increased since then. … Today, Muslims make up 35 percent of the student body at Hartford Seminary, an institution which a few generations ago was training Christians to evangelize Muslims.

“The case of Hartford Seminary shows how the laudable desire to understand Islam and Muslims has brought a Calvinist foundation with a strong missionary emphasis to the point of using its resources to train and equip Muslims to strengthen other Muslims in their faith.”

One should observe that this transition took place over a period of 37 years – probably longer than the tenure of those who started the “dialog”. Thus, the original goals of the program were long forgotten. Are things going to be different this time? Will Lucy not pull away the football from Charlie Brown? Maybe, but remember, Islam hasn’t changed in 1,400 years.

Muslim scholars and clerics sent a letter, “A Common Word Between Us and You,” to the Vatican. This site
answering-islam.org/Letters/common_word.htm addresses some interesting questions concerning what the letter means.

You might have met some Muslims and thought they were well-meaning folks, but that is designed to get Christians to make the mistake of thinking that since some Muslims are nice that Islam is good. Given Islam’s history, this would be a fatal error.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

On the micro level, perhaps. What about the macro?

Denominations are one thing. All Americans are Americans, even if some are Baptists. Is it possible for American baptists to reach an understanding with Iranian Muslims?

I’m sure it can be done. It will require some movement on both sides. I hear many Iranians like American generally. Thankfully much of the world has not held our recent leadership against Americans in general. It starts somewhere. There are groups in Palestine and Israel for instance that work on building relationships family by family, and person by person. The radical elements cannot be allowed to dictate to the majority. And I don’t think they will in the end. I trust that God’s love expressed through all people will win the day.

We must never give up and grab the gun. Violence begets more violence, always has and always will. Another way must be found. Learning to listen is a first step.

 

[Soutane]

Can you recall any warm and fuzzie feelings between muslims and Christians? You know, something you can actually say… ahhhh… we are all making a difference.

The fact is that islam wants nothing to do with the rest of the world unless the rest of the world submits to islam.

There is no way out…

Perhaps I’m wrong and the future will change, but it’s just getting worse!

I’m afraid I have to agree with your assessment.Christianity PROPOSES.Islam IMPOSES.Huge difference.

The average Muslim seeks to convert and change the society he or she lives in-something that Catholics and non-Catholic Christians should endeavour to do.Why WOULD a Muslim be tolerant of a western society rife with pornography,indecent fashion,blasphemy every where you look,a place where 1 out of 4 American female teenagers have stds(I’m sure it’s the same here in Canada,as well)where secular media ridicules any hint of faith or religion?

The latest Muslim slogan I heard on the news is "We are coming.We are coming"Sounds a little sinister to me.

Islam is NOT known for it’s tolerance.Or should I say the PRACTISE of Islam is not known for it’s tolerance.Wherever Islam brushes up against Christianity or Judaism violence generally ensues.Read the Koran.Look up the definition of dhimmitude-something an archbishop in the Philipines has been threatened with lately.

I find it very hard to be tolerant of the intolerant.

 

[Soutane]

I also read that a nuclear facility in Iran is due momentarily to come online-soon there will be an Islamic Bomb.They already have ICBMs capable of hitting Western Europe at least.Can you possibly imagine these people with THAT capability?And what happens when Pakistan implodes and devolves into a complete Islamic theocracy?THEY already have the bomb and excellent missile systems.

My problem with Islam is that in practise it seems more of an IDEOLOGY than a religion.

Hold onto your hats.Or pray.

Pray.

 

[simplynoone]

I’m afraid I have to agree with your assessment.Christianity PROPOSES.Islam IMPOSES.Huge difference.

Hmmm… this is not true in America. My life is highly impacted (negatively) by Christianity (note, I did not say Christians as that is blaming all the people for the fanaticism in the religion); which by the way, this country was NOT founded on. Yet, I am greeted warmly and am made to feel genuinely appreciated by my Muslim Friends; not once can I think of a time when my personal life was negatively impacted by a Muslim. (Note, I am not Christian, Muslim, Jewish… just a creation of God’s). Have not yet read past this point because I was already * *. Pot… meet kettle. Of course, in this case, you would benefit by wiping that chip off your shoulder to see them in a more truthful light… based on the individual.

 

[simplynoone]

I also read that a nuclear facility in Iran is due momentarily to come online-soon there will be an Islamic Bomb.They already have ICBMs capable of hitting Western Europe at least.Can you possibly imagine these people with THAT capability?And what happens when Pakistan implodes and devolves into a complete Islamic theocracy?THEY already have the bomb and excellent missile systems.

My problem with Islam is that in practise it seems more of an IDEOLOGY than a religion.

Hold onto your hats.Or pray.

Pray.

My problem with Christianity is that it claims a man as god and pays little heed to what the man actually taught, yet that has little to do with it still being your right to choose what you want to believe. coughs Mote… eye… out of your own first.

 

[chrisse]

Hmmm… this is not true in America. My life is highly impacted (negatively) by Christianity

My life is highly impacted (negatively) by the introduction of European wasps into Australia. How - I stood on a dying one a few weeks ago, and it hurt for over a week.

Please, grand, sweeping statements. But no examples, proof, sources.

(note, I did not say Christians as that is blaming all the people for the fanaticism in the religion);

You are truly a wonderful person. However, you did blame a religious belief without backing up your claim. When you do get around to it, be sure to classify by whom.

which by the way, this country was NOT founded on.

I’m not American, I’ll pass here.

Yet, I am greeted warmly and am made to feel genuinely appreciated by my Muslim Friends; not once can I think of a time when my personal life was negatively impacted by a Muslim. (Note, I am not Christian, Muslim, Jewish… just a creation of God’s).

Capital letters for your muslim friends - they are very special indeed for an agnostic/atheist/child of mother earth.

Have not yet read past this point because I was already * *. Pot… meet kettle. Of course, in this case, you would benefit by wiping that chip off your shoulder to see them in a more truthful light… based on the individual.

Don’t know who or what you are talking about here.

Interesting timing for such a “non-religious” person to join with your opinions.

 

[chrisse]

My problem with Christianity is that it claims a man as god and pays little heed to what the man actually taught, yet that has little to do with it still being your right to choose what you want to believe. coughs Mote… eye… out of your own first.

I will, but being a Christian, I’ll help you out with yours first. Welcome, and hopefully you’ll have more than gratuitous opinions based on …who knows what it’s based on…yet.

 

[simplynoone]

Welcome

Thank you! Very thoughtful.

 

[chrisse]

Thank you! Very thoughtful.

It was intended that way.

 

[Reuben_J]

Not only is it possible…but it is happening…if one considers Friends “Christians” then we have had dialog with the Muslim community in our area. We have shared…prayer time together.

**Perhaps Friends have an advantage in that our Meeting houses are very plain with no religious images that prevent Muslims from sharing in our Meeting for Worship. ** While I have not had the opportunity to attend Mosque, I have sat in a “prayer group” where we shared common passages from the Bible and the Qur’an.

As Friends we have sought to “speak to that of God” within our Muslim acquaintences.

I think it takes patience and forebearance for all concerned.

Interesting. I forgot to check whether you’re Catholic or not. BTW, is there any reciprocation by Muslims when Catholics come to pray together in their house?

We have a saying in the Bible, something that says, if you are ashamed of Jesus in this world, he will be ashamed of you in the next (paraphrase).

 

[ralphinal]

I’m sure it can be done. It will require some movement on both sides. I hear many Iranians like American generally. Thankfully much of the world has not held our recent leadership against Americans in general. It starts somewhere. There are groups in Palestine and Israel for instance that work on building relationships family by family, and person by person. The radical elements cannot be allowed to dictate to the majority. And I don’t think they will in the end. I trust that God’s love expressed through all people will win the day.

We must never give up and grab the gun. Violence begets more violence, always has and always will. Another way must be found. Learning to listen is a first step.

I had to mark that one line.

Personally, I do hold that the radical element of Islam is not the majority. However, that minority DOES seem to dictate to the majority in many cases. While we should try to talk to the majority to get them to ignore the violent ones, in the end, Muslims must decide if they are going to be a peaceful part of the world or not.