Is Divorce the Answer

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Blessed8

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I am struggling with the question - divorce my spouse who is a borderline personality for my personal emotional growth and stability of the children or stay for the children and remain deeply unhappy? I ask this from a faith standpoint as well as from a practical standpoint. We have 8 children from 1 year to 12 years old - as you can see we practice our faith.

We have tried religious and priest-directed secular counseling without success. I have grown through the process because one does not marry a borderline without having your own insecurity issues from childhood. Water rises to its own level when two vessels are connected - this is true for a couple’s emotional health level as well. If I was emotionally healthy when I met my spouse I would never have married them.

My spouse has grown too but not in the areas that would save the marriage. My spouse has more patience but the other problems remain.

My own growth has occurred by facing my faults. I see that I am co-dependent and have learned to stand on my own. Likewise, I see my spouse with clear vision for who this person really is and how unreasonable demands are made of me. The “crazy train” engineered by my spouse continues while I play emotional aikido to let the energy pass. The spouse is essentially another child who thinks:
  • everything is someone else’s fault,
  • other people are not as good,
  • anyone who contradicts is mentally ill,
  • it is normal to lose most of our friends,
  • it is normal to have friends that only agree with them, and
  • they are perfectly normal while unknowingly engaged in pathological lying and cognitive distortion.
My spouse was caught lying several times to the priest-directed counselor and now refuses to return since that counselor is “no good.” This counselor also privately labeled the spouse as borderline. A borderline cannot be told they are borderline because they will then label that person a liar, an idiot and a borderline. We have not been in marital counseling for a year and a half as a result. I go for my own growth to understand how I ended up in this situation.

Here are examples of the borderline from the past month:
  1. I was recently provoked while at work. I stated calmly that I was working on five occasions. Since I did not engage my spouse, the spouse screamed then hit me. (The spouse has not hit me in years.) The spouse then denied hitting me and sent an email later that day to our priest that outlined some private information about me. The information was months old and had no relevance on that day. The spouse just wanted to humiliate me or “split” me - a strategy found in borderlines.
  2. By way of background, my spouse had an affair two years ago. I discovered it when I found the other person in our house at 2am after being invited to a “slumber party” by my spouse. We are in our 40s. The other person is in their 30s. The third member of the slumber party is what I called the “cover” and is in their 20s. My spouse’s Catholic friends also told me about the affair after they witnessed it at the dance club and at parties. My spouse refuses to speak to these people to this day since they are “liars.” I am still friends with them all.
    Anyway, my spouse went back to the same dance bar three weeks ago. I am usually asleep by 10pm but happened to be with my business partner until 1am that night. When I arrived home, my spouse pulled into the driveway. My spouse did not expect me to be up. I was told about the night dancing and how someone tried to kiss them on the dance floor. I then looked closely at the spouse and saw the wedding band was off. I double checked the finger as the spouse was getting into the bath and it was off. I asked the spouse the next day why I was not told about the plans to go dancing and why the ring was off. The spouse states I was told about the dancing and that the ring was on the whole time. Both are lies.
  3. When my spouse was told they have borderline personality disorder by a mutual friend with borderline disorder, the friend was thrown out of the house. My spouse then went around to everyone that would listen and told them what a bad person so and so is. When I tell my spouse that this is the fourth person in two years, including 2 psychologists, making this label, my spouse starts screaming and sends out an email to her family calling me a borderline.
Our children are old enough to see the patterns too.
I am repeated told by the kids:
  1. I am more peaceful and the house is quieter when it is just me running the show;
  2. I discipline more but am more fun to be around;
  3. I do not blame the kids for my mistakes;
  4. I do not spank them as much as the other parent;
    etc…
I have been told by my non-Catholic but orthodox Jewish counselor to divorce the spouse since all kinds of boundaries are being crossed. The counselor knows my spouse quite well. The counselor hopes this will make the spouse see the seriousness of the condition. The counselor has pushed me to keep the marriage together for the past two years too. I am fed up but confused about the effects on the kids, the community, and my faith. This type of personality destroys those who make them feel insecure and this could be an ugly divorce full of lies. On the other hand I know I need out for my own mental health and wellness.

Thoughts? At what point does a Catholic say it is over?
 
You have complex, serious issues and eight children to consider.

Anonymous people on the internet cannot give you the advice-- stay or go-- that you seek. You have more than one counselor and a priest. I suggest you talk to your pastor, specifically about the topic of divorce, and see what he says. And an attorney.
 
1ke said:
You have complex, serious issues and eight children to consider.

Anonymous people on the internet cannot give you the advice-- stay or go-- that you seek. You have more than one counselor and a priest. I suggest you talk to your pastor, specifically about the topic of divorce, and see what he says. And an attorney.
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👍
When you speak to your priest you might want to ask his opinion on the possibility of having the marriage annulled if you do decide to divorce.
 
I was married to a BPD. I did not want to divorce, and it was very hard to discern whether I “deserved” to be free from abuse or if it was really that bad (I had totally lost any sense of what was real and/or okay). The day I planned my own suicide, I realized that divorce was the best option.

BPDs make horrible, vindictive ex’s, but it’s still better than being married to him.
 
You can’t change someone that has this kind of disorder. Your children are being affected by it. Do you want your children to grow up thinking this is all normal behavior? If this man has hit you recently, even if he hasn’t done this for a long time, doesn’t that cross the line?
 
what’s he like on normal days?? or is he always angry every day??
 
Sunbreak said:
Your children are being affected by it. Do you want your children to grow up thinking this is all normal behavior?
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This is a good point. Daughters learn that this is how they should expect to be treated by husbands, and sons learn that this is how they can treat a wife. That has to be balanced with the reduced income caused by divorce, and your kids will have visitation time with dad that you have no part in, so you can’t protect them if he visits the craziness on them, too.
 
Based on a reference to the spouse being a “her” the OP appears to be male. I noticed several people posting assuming the OP was a woman.
 
1ke said:
You have complex, serious issues and eight children to consider.

Anonymous people on the internet cannot give you the advice-- stay or go-- that you seek. You have more than one counselor and a priest. I suggest you talk to your pastor, specifically about the topic of divorce, and see what he says. And an attorney.
Click to expand...
This is excellent advice. Please talk to your priest. I will pray for you and your family.
 
Blessed8 said:
I am struggling with the question - divorce my spouse who is a borderline personality for my personal emotional growth and stability of the children or stay for the children and remain deeply unhappy? I ask this from a faith standpoint as well as from a practical standpoint. We have 8 children from 1 year to 12 years old - as you can see we practice our faith.

We have tried religious and priest-directed secular counseling without success. I have grown through the process because one does not marry a borderline without having your own insecurity issues from childhood. Water rises to its own level when two vessels are connected - this is true for a couple’s emotional health level as well. If I was emotionally healthy when I met my spouse I would never have married them.

My spouse has grown too but not in the areas that would save the marriage. My spouse has more patience but the other problems remain.

My own growth has occurred by facing my faults. I see that I am co-dependent and have learned to stand on my own. Likewise, I see my spouse with clear vision for who this person really is and how unreasonable demands are made of me. The “crazy train” engineered by my spouse continues while I play emotional aikido to let the energy pass. The spouse is essentially another child who thinks:
  • everything is someone else’s fault,
  • other people are not as good,
  • anyone who contradicts is mentally ill,
  • it is normal to lose most of our friends,
  • it is normal to have friends that only agree with them, and
  • they are perfectly normal while unknowingly engaged in pathological lying and cognitive distortion.
My spouse was caught lying several times to the priest-directed counselor and now refuses to return since that counselor is “no good.” This counselor also privately labeled the spouse as borderline. A borderline cannot be told they are borderline because they will then label that person a liar, an idiot and a borderline. We have not been in marital counseling for a year and a half as a result. I go for my own growth to understand how I ended up in this situation.

Here are examples of the borderline from the past month:
  1. I was recently provoked while at work. I stated calmly that I was working on five occasions. Since I did not engage my spouse, the spouse screamed then hit me. (The spouse has not hit me in years.) The spouse then denied hitting me and sent an email later that day to our priest that outlined some private information about me. The information was months old and had no relevance on that day. The spouse just wanted to humiliate me or “split” me - a strategy found in borderlines.
  2. By way of background, my spouse had an affair two years ago. I discovered it when I found the other person in our house at 2am after being invited to a “slumber party” by my spouse. We are in our 40s. The other person is in their 30s. The third member of the slumber party is what I called the “cover” and is in their 20s. My spouse’s Catholic friends also told me about the affair after they witnessed it at the dance club and at parties. My spouse refuses to speak to these people to this day since they are “liars.” I am still friends with them all.
    Anyway, my spouse went back to the same dance bar three weeks ago. I am usually asleep by 10pm but happened to be with my business partner until 1am that night. When I arrived home, my spouse pulled into the driveway. My spouse did not expect me to be up. I was told about the night dancing and how someone tried to kiss them on the dance floor. I then looked closely at the spouse and saw the wedding band was off. I double checked the finger as the spouse was getting into the bath and it was off. I asked the spouse the next day why I was not told about the plans to go dancing and why the ring was off. The spouse states I was told about the dancing and that the ring was on the whole time. Both are lies.
  3. When my spouse was told they have borderline personality disorder by a mutual friend with borderline disorder, the friend was thrown out of the house. My spouse then went around to everyone that would listen and told them what a bad person so and so is. When I tell my spouse that this is the fourth person in two years, including 2 psychologists, making this label, my spouse starts screaming and sends out an email to her family calling me a borderline.
Our children are old enough to see the patterns too.
I am repeated told by the kids:
  1. I am more peaceful and the house is quieter when it is just me running the show;
  2. I discipline more but am more fun to be around;
  3. I do not blame the kids for my mistakes;
  4. I do not spank them as much as the other parent;
    etc…
I have been told by my non-Catholic but orthodox Jewish counselor to divorce the spouse since all kinds of boundaries are being crossed. The counselor knows my spouse quite well. The counselor hopes this will make the spouse see the seriousness of the condition. The counselor has pushed me to keep the marriage together for the past two years too. I am fed up but confused about the effects on the kids, the community, and my faith. This type of personality destroys those who make them feel insecure and this could be an ugly divorce full of lies. On the other hand I know I need out for my own mental health and wellness.

Thoughts? At what point does a Catholic say it is over?
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Other than making babies, what else do you and “spouse” do to practice your faith? And who is looking after your 8 children while spouse is out dancing and you are having late meetings?
 
Thank you for the posts. I agree that I should speak with our priest. Our regular confessor was transferred to attend canon law school. I have been quietly trying to make heads and tails of this whole thing and have been in counseling for two years. I know what I must do. I will speak with the priest and share this post and thread. I need spiritual help now that I have woken.

GenerationHV - I find your post judgmental but here is how we practice our faith - catholic schools for the kids, we do not drink or smoke, attend mass weekly, confession regularly as a family, rosaries and religious artifacts around the house, rosaries occasionally as a family, nightly prayers with the children, have priests over for dinner regularly, i use to be a lectern. We do not hang out with the Catholic gang since the affair. We really do not hang out with anyone anymore. Mentally ill people, like my wife, and those trying to find direction, like me, use the church to find solace too. BTW we had a babysitter that night and the children were not alone running the house until 1am. I did not know my wife was going dancing and thought she would be home at 9pm following her meeting with the counselor we both see. I worked late that night literally for the first time in years at my partner’s house because his wife was out of town and he had the kids.

I am a male. The majority of borderlines are female and borderlines make up 10% of the population. Men who find borderline females are core damaged and think the abuse is normal because of self esteem issues. This is incongruent in society’s eyes because the borderline and spouse tend to be very successful. I am a highly regarded professional in the community “who should be smart enough to know better.” The last two years have finally opened my eyes. This is a gift from God to have my eyes open rather than continue the crazy train.

My daughters know mom’s behavior is not normal. They show me in their drawings and in what they say. I am actually sitting up at 3am with my two oldest daughters right now because they could not sleep. I asked them why and they said mom’s behavior stresses them.

EvelynEVF - I have thought the same thing in the past; namely that death is a reasonable escape since life is a living hell - and I am a very happy person. No thought of this form of escape now as life is too wonderful. I have read that death is a common fascination in the lives of those married to borderlines.

God bless.
 
If she has mental health issues which is what border line personality disorder is, then why are you still having children together. having 8 children 12 and under is very challenging for anyone without the added problems of a troubled marriage and spouse with a personality disorder. There is no one here that can fairly answer your question about the justification for divorce and basing that on only your side of the story. My spouse is a marriage and family therapist and it is tiresome to see the comment of we tried counseling. If the couselor didn’t work out, then move on to the next one but you have 8 children here and I don’t think you realize how hard it will be to be a single parent to 8 children, or even trying to share the custody with her. I am sure that these problems in the marriage didn’t just crop up over night and to continue to pop out children with serious marital problems instead of abstaining to work them out is a little curious. Your children come first and getting a divorce based on that fact she has a personality disorder and coming on the internet to get justification for it from strangers seems to be a little suspicious and eye-brow raising.
 
maritalhealing.com/

You can go to this web site. It’s by a Catholic counselor. I heard him on Catholic Answers radio program the other day. He discussed personality disorder. It’s very hard to live with but he had advice on not letting it get you down or make it your problem.

If you want to save the marriage maybe you can find a Catholic counselor who understands these problems and how to cope with them.
 
Robwar - you are correct. Asking for people’s advice on a difficult matter in a private fashion is suspect. But it is also a way to receive wanted advice and thought this was the safest place to receive answers. You have never been in a relationship with a BPD obviously. They destroy your world.
We are abstinent now that I understand what is happening and want a divorce and that she is BPD. I was practicing my faith eyes wide shut.
We have been through 5 counselors and no change. I am to blame for everything per my wife. I now know divorce is the only way for the kids and I to keep sane and be safe.
 
Blessed8 said:
Robwar - you are correct. Asking for people’s advice on a difficult matter in a private fashion is suspect. But it is also a way to receive wanted advice and thought this was the safest place to receive answers. You have never been in a relationship with a BPD obviously. They destroy your world.
We are abstinent now that I understand what is happening and want a divorce and that she is BPD. I was practicing my faith eyes wide shut.
We have been through 5 counselors and no change. I am to blame for everything per my wife. I now know divorce is the only way for the kids and I to keep sane and be safe.
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Again, I am truly sorry about your situation but divorce bring more problems and challenges that you might not be aware of or even prepared for plus the financial strain that it puts on the whole family, you and her and with 8 children that in it of itself is already a financial strain. While the appeal of the divorce is that you are no longer in the home with her, divorce just add a bunch more problems than what you think you are solving here. I am curious as to who or how she got this diagnosis of BPD? Even after 5 counselors, have you considered just having counseling and support for yourself? There is misinformation that marital counseling needs to be done as a couple, it can be done as an individual.
I guess I have the thought here that you should not get a divorce. There are many very difficult marriages and they can be due to a number of extremely serious issues such as substance abuse, physical abuse, infidelity etc and so on. And not to down play any of these issues that many people face in their marriages, you didn’t mention any of these things but a personality disorder that is now driving you nuts along with the stress of eight children under 12. There are a number of saints that have been in unhappy marriages with serious issues and what seems to be the common theme with these saints is that they didn’t quit the marriage, and turned their unhappiness towards prayer and seemed to have used the bad marriage as a form of penance towards holiness. I think with the 8 children under 12, that complicates and clouds the stress between the 2 of you. If you are finally realizing that maybe the baby machine needs to stop because you have some big problems, I really sense here that you are jumping the gun on wanting a divorce which again only brings a bunch more unanticipated problems with it. If you are working, who is going to take care of all of the pre-school children? Does your wife work? Is she are home with the younger kids? How do you anticipate sharing custody? Are you planning on sole or joint and bounce all those children between the two of you? I’m sorry but I need to be honest and with 8 children no matter how unhappy you are or how nutty she is, divorce really is not the answer and will only bring a ton more problems that are life for your children than what you think and it seems like you need to continue to seek ways to deal with her and keep it together.
 
Blessed8 said:
I am a male. The majority of borderlines are female and borderlines make up 10% of the population. Men who find borderline females are core damaged and think the abuse is normal because of self esteem issues. This is incongruent in society’s eyes because the borderline and spouse tend to be very successful. I am a highly regarded professional in the community “who should be smart enough to know better.” The last two years have finally opened my eyes. This is a gift from God to have my eyes open rather than continue the crazy train.
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If this is what you truly believe is going on and it is confirmed to you by professionals… you need to start changing tack now. Your wife is sick and you aren’t able to function as equals. You’ll be banging your head against a brick wall to continue to expect to function that way only to be disappointed again and again. Not all marriages turn out to be the loving ideal that we all long for, but at the end of the day it is still marriage.

Separation might have to be explored for the sake of your children and your own sake, but start now by thinking about your wife in a different way before choosing divorce from the reasoning that she is evil. She is sick. Most borderlines have been damaged by either childhood sexual abuse, date rape or even voluntary involvement in destructive sexual relationships when young. As a result, they live in a state of self preservation and isolation within themselves.

Try to view her as a sick teenager and make your decisions for you family based on their safety and health rather than continuing to catalogue her sins to find your justification to act.
 
Can you afford to go to counseling with your children? Learning how to deal with a person like this would be good, especially for your children. You already know what you are dealing with, now you need to learn HOW to deal with it. Trying to learn why you were attracted to her isn’t as important anymore, dealing with it so you can keep a fairly tranquil life is.

If you divorce, your wife will probably get custody of the kids, judges always do that, and you will be out with only visitation and child support to pay. I know it is hard but being there keeps you in more control of the kids and more helpful to them.

There may come a time when she files for divorce and then there is nothing you can do about it but your kids will see you did the best you could. It’s a hard situation all around.

My hubby was married to a woman like this. Her problems were always blamed on other people.
 
One party to the marriage is not doing what the Lord Wills.

That is why there is trouble. The Lord put the trouble there to weed out the sin. Go to Him and find out what it is.
 
American law does tend to favor the woman in divorce cases.
 
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