Is drinking a sin?

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Mea Culpa,

Thank You for that Biblical interpretation of the 12 steps.

At a garage sale I found an old Bible and looked inside… seems it was an AA Bible with references for all the sayings AA uses. The lady there said it was her husbands (who had since passed away), it had a 1966 publishing date in it (before Vatican II).

She wanted $5 for it… I gave her $20. It is a very handy book. We do know that Bill W. and Doctor Bob were ‘inspired’ when they started the Program (Way to Life). Perhaps that is what helped me get back, more intently, and Heart felt, into the Catholic Church…?!!
 
Hark! A bell ringeth! Could it be Tantum ergo signifying the moment for the boxers to return to their corners?

While it could be said that modern “psychobabble”, or pop psychology, has homogenized and glamorized and streamlined the addiction predicament and its solution, please do not discount the efforts that psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, clergy and lay persons are making to help the alcoholic and addict return to the business of living. There is such vitriol in many of these posts where the field of addiction and recovery is concerned - how can anyone learn with a mind that is rusted shut?

I do not happen to agree that alcoholism is a sin. I have lived it for 56 years, I know it from the inside out: the helplessness, the hopelessness, the despondency, the rage, the soul sickness. I would recommend to any Catholic who thinks that alcoholism is willful misconduct, that drunks and junkies actually choose to p*ss our lives away, that you **steer clear of the person **considering quitting drinking or drugging. Unless one of you is approached by a Roman Catholic who suspects s/he has a substance abuse problem, please don’t try to help. The singular option you offer sounds so narrow that I can’t imagine anyone but a practicing Catholic finding anything helpful or hopeful about it.

**Coder writes: **

*“Nonetheless genetic predispositions do not dictate our behavior as though it is out of our control.).” *

Take that argument to the morgue and see who sits up to take notice.

marietta
 
marietta said:
Hark! A bell ringeth! Could it be Tantum ergo signifying the moment for the boxers to return to their corners?

While it could be said that modern “psychobabble”, or pop psychology, has homogenized and glamorized and streamlined the addiction predicament and its solution, please do not discount the efforts that psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, clergy and lay persons are making to help the alcoholic and addict return to the business of living. There is such vitriol in many of these posts where the field of addiction and recovery is concerned - how can anyone learn with a mind that is rusted shut?

I do not happen to agree that alcoholism is a sin. I have lived it for 56 years, I know it from the inside out: the helplessness, the hopelessness, the despondency, the rage, the soul sickness. I would recommend to any Catholic who thinks that alcoholism is willful misconduct, that drunks and junkies actually choose to p*ss our lives away, that you **steer clear of the person **considering quitting drinking or drugging. Unless one of you is approached by a Roman Catholic who suspects s/he has a substance abuse problem, please don’t try to help. The singular option you offer sounds so narrow that I can’t imagine anyone but a practicing Catholic finding anything helpful or hopeful about it.

**Coder writes: **

*“Nonetheless genetic predispositions do not dictate our behavior as though it is out of our control.).” *

Take that argument to the morgue and see who sits up to take notice.

marietta
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Thank you so much for the condescending attitude and the name calling. I’ve always found those great aids to communicating with people. Another candidate for my ignore list.
 
igator99 said:
I’m not talking pass out drunk but to the point of being intoxicated. I assume a few beers or glasses of wine are not.
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I believe regular drinking, as in daily, and certainly drunkenness are sinful, in as much as they’re reflective of extremely poor self-discipline. The Disciple of Christ absolutely cannot live that way, IMO. A drink or two, occasionally, is okay; regular drinking is a definite vice.
 
Mea_Culpa said:
Thank you so much for the condescending attitude and the name calling. I’ve always found those great aids to communicating with people. Another candidate for my ignore list.
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So you’ve noticed too.

I do think of people we all know, like Steve Allen, Ronald Reagan, and many others, who grew up with an alcoholic. Maybe they had such tendencies themselves, but they chose to turn the experience around, and by an act of will and the grace of God, did not become bitter, vengeful, or filled with condescension for the rest of us ‘unwashed ignoramuses.’
 
Steve Allen. Ronald Reagan. Maybe they did* not *have such tendencies themselves.

No one raised the “unwashed ignoramuses” flag. I just find it interesting, this vehement refusal to even momentarily entertain an idea that is not somehow connected to absolute sinfulness or absolute purity.

Is it something we can’t or won’t understand or accept? Then throw it in the Sinful Basket. That way we don’t have to bother with it anymore. This is called a comfort zone. If Mea Culpa hadn’t lock up the Ignore Button, she would accuse me of using a “psychobabble” term. Regardless, if it’s cunning, baffling, powerful, it has to be sinful.

There, now. Feeling better already.

marietta
 
Marietta said, “I do not happen to agree that alcoholism is a sin. I have lived it for 56 years, I know it from the inside out: the helplessness, the hopelessness, the despondency, the rage, the soul sickness.”

That is a long time to have lived it. I too have lived it, but for a long enough time… not TODAY!

I have listed a number of different things I was, remember? Parents son, parent, employee, Catholic, alcoholic, spouse, friend, etc. I have tried to homogenize my whole life into recovery… not taking one aspect of it and making a mountain out of the little hill that it is to the entirety of my life. (That General and specific thing we never discussed).

What is the addicted nature? Isn’t it to have one’s mind thinking of the next fix more so then anything else? To have one’s addiction the mountain in one’s life while making all the rest that one is a molehill? An Obsession almost? Oh yes, the stick-to-it-ness also, in spite of all odds or losses, even in the face of reason… still wanting another fix. Ah, such resolve, nothing or no one will get in the way of one’s using, no matter what… throw common-sense out the window, who uses it when addicted?

But this is not the way of Recovery. Don’t we become more Sane by #2? And loose the addictive nature by #3 #4 #5? Keep going here to #6 #7. Then by #8 #9 one should be back into the Human Race and continue through the rest.

Remember it was alcohol (or whatever) that got you started down the road BUT IT WAS THE ADDICTIVE NATURE you had that kept you on that road to the lengths one traveled on it. Alcohol in and of itself is not the bad boy here, it is the Addictive Nature you have that makes it such. And it is that addictive nature that Recovery is suppose to arrest and bring back to PROPER SIZE so one is able to live a more productive and FULL life. And yes, that addictive nature is part of one, but in Recovery it is not the mountain anymore, just a little molehill.

Perhaps this is where we differ: I see it as a sin and have sought forgiveness (along with #5 #9), which has put the addictive nature into remission… Thank the Good Lord for that. This has brought me to TODAY… and how the Program teaches us to live.
 
Michael David:

The Program has taught me to be ever-mindful, ever-vigilant, and to never forget where I came from with regard to alcoholism and addiction. If I forget the hell of active substance abuse I risk, through complacency, repeating it . I have witnessed this over and over in AA, through those who became comfortable in “sobriety” and thought that they had made so much progress that perhaps controlled drinking was the answer for them all along. I do not intend to get soft where my recovery is concerned.

We are discussing whether or not we believe drinking is a sin. I am focused on the topic. By no means does this topic begin to fully define me. If that were true, then alcoholism would walk away with a trophy. I would be the trophy.

marietta
 
marietta said:
Michael David:

The Program has taught me to be ever-mindful, ever-vigilant, and to never forget where I came from with regard to alcoholism and addiction. If I forget the hell of active substance abuse I risk, through complacency, repeating it . I have witnessed this over and over in AA, through those who became comfortable in “sobriety” and thought that they had made so much progress that perhaps controlled drinking was the answer for them all along. I do not intend to get soft where my recovery is concerned.

We are discussing whether or not we believe drinking is a sin. I am focused on the topic. By no means does this topic begin to fully define me. If that were true, then alcoholism would walk away with a trophy. I would be the trophy.

marietta
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How about if it seperates us from God, family or responsibilities then it is a sin? It has done that to me so I need to ask God for the power to conquer it.
 
Marietta, you and me both.
I have stated my view on drinking as the Topic as to when it changes one’s personality (on any or all levels). This was defined in my ‘early days’ post and the changes I felt.

I find the ‘Granted Serenity’ very comforting in sobriety. Yes, one’s history is one’s history and will remain such. Even Today becomes history tomorrow. And no, I will not and do not forget the past, but it does not belong in the Today, I do not keep dragging that bag with me as I go, it can not be forgotten, I have lived it, it is part of my Being… full of remembrances at the right time to stay on the chosen journey. Can I ever forget that fire burns? After getting burned by it! But I do not have to continue to live like I had my hand in the fire Today. When I see the fire, it will come to mind (very fast).

You have a lot of experience to “pull on” without having to “dwell on” it… Today!

Welcome to Today!
 
igator99:

Are you drinking because you want to or because you have to?

marietta
 
igator99:

Drinking to excess? Losing work? Neglecting family? If this is all by choice, why have you chosen to do this?

Do you feel you have separated yourself from God?

marietta
 
This thread is interesting… I am on my way to confession and I was in a situation this summer where I had 2 glasses of wine (over the course of 4 hours, the last drink being within an hour before I left). I ended up driving home and I recall feeling pretty tired from the wine. I also didn’t exactly know my way out of the city and I ended up getting lost. I did find my way back home, but given my tiredness and slight disorientation, was this whole situation I put myself in a “mortal sin.”

Also - I don’t think I was over the legal limit, but even so, I don’t know if I need to confess “drinking and driving.” Is drinking and driving a sin if you are not over the limit?

~YoungCatholic
 
Youngcatholic said:
This thread is interesting… I am on my way to confession and I was in a situation this summer where I had 2 glasses of wine (over the course of 4 hours, the last drink being within an hour before I left). I ended up driving home and I recall feeling pretty tired from the wine. I also didn’t exactly know my way out of the city and I ended up getting lost. I did find my way back home, but given my tiredness and slight disorientation, was this whole situation I put myself in a “mortal sin.”

Also - I don’t think I was over the legal limit, but even so, I don’t know if I need to confess “drinking and driving.” Is drinking and driving a sin if you are not over the limit?

~YoungCatholic
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Listen, God wants us to follow civil law as long as it is ordained to what governments should, the sanctification of its subjects.

The US or any government could careless if you are the devil on Earth. So I guarantee you I did not wait until 21 to have a beer.

The US, pagan and protestant mentality prohibits drinking yet allows for real sins.
The rest of the sane world leaves that to parents.

If you knew that 2 cups was going to do you bad then it was a sin. Mortal is determined by the normal conditions. But in itself it is not a sin.
 
Youngcatholic said:
This thread is interesting… I am on my way to confession and I was in a situation this summer where I had 2 glasses of wine (over the course of 4 hours, the last drink being within an hour before I left). I ended up driving home and I recall feeling pretty tired from the wine. I also didn’t exactly know my way out of the city and I ended up getting lost. I did find my way back home, but given my tiredness and slight disorientation, was this whole situation I put myself in a “mortal sin.”

Also - I don’t think I was over the legal limit, but even so, I don’t know if I need to confess “drinking and driving.” Is drinking and driving a sin if you are not over the limit?

~YoungCatholic
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You most assuredly were not over the legal limit. However, sin is not based upon man’s law. It’s based upon God’s law. For some people, two glasses of wine might not have any impact on their driving. For others who (for lack of a better term) cannot “handle their liquor” it would be grave matter as they might be more disorientated then normal.

Bottom line is that you should primarily ask your confessor for guidance on this issue more then anything else. Raise it in confession, if he says it’s not a sin then great. If it is a sin, then he’ll assign you the penance he feels is appropriate. Then you don’t need to worry at all. Then ask what you should do in the future.

Your confessor is truly in the best place to give you advice in this matter.
 
AHapka said:
However, sin is not based upon man’s law. It’s based upon God’s law.
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Are you saying that disobeying the laws of government is not a sin? Because I have heard that it is. God allows those with the ability to choose just laws that we should follow them. We should only not follow unjust laws.
 
danaemariejoan said:
Are you saying that disobeying the laws of government is not a sin? Because I have heard that it is. God allows those with the ability to choose just laws that we should follow them. We should only not follow unjust laws.
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No, I am not. Whether or not something is a sin is based upon God’s law. God orders us through scripture to obey the just acts of government, thereby making it a sin to violate such laws because God said that we need to obey such laws and not doing so would therefore violate His orders and make it sinful because we are going against what He said. So you see, the basis for it being a sin to disobey a just law is based on the fact that God told us to follow just laws.

Now if what I said wasn’t true (if sin was based upon man’s law instead of God’s law) then abortion would not be sinful because we would be basing our definition of sin on what man’s law says we can and can’t do. Since we know abortion is sinful, clearly this cannot be the case.

Yes, you are correct in what you say. But it still doesn’t contradict my point. The definition of sin comes from God, and the only reason that breaking a just law of government is a sin is because God says so. If He didn’t say so, then it wouldn’t be a sin.

In any case the previous poster was basically asking two distinct questions in his post:
  1. was I breaking the law? In that case, the answer was no;
  2. did I sin by driving with that alcohol? (even though he wasn’t above the legal limit). Now my point about sin being based on God’s law and not man’s law comes into play. He may very well have been sinning, even though he wasn’t violating man’s law because sin is based on God’s law. If he was at the point where (for him) the amount of alcohol was enough to disorient him (even though he was under the legal limit) to the point where he was a danger to other people on the road, then it was a sin for him. Even though it didn’t violate man’s law.
What I’m trying to say is that something can be a sin when it’s not illegal, which is I think the point you missed in my post.
 
I think we should be mindful that alcoholism is a disease, and one that some people fall into quite easily and unawares. It’s a difficult disease featuring a chemical dependency. That dependency is nightmarish, too. Going “cold turkey” can kill the alcoholic. Other chemical withdrawls, such as with heroin famously, seem to be more dramatic and painful, but going off most drugs is not usually fatal. This isn’t so with alcohol. This is an unusual case where the cure really can be worse than the disease for the patient!

Pray for those unfortunate souls trapped in this addiction and those innocents in their lives who are invariably hurt by the disease as well!

I’d say if you think you have a drinking problem, look out. If you know you do, get professional medical help fighting this disease, and pray to the Lord for the strength to overcome it and heal you!
 
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