- Yes
- No
- Define “drunkenness”
- I don’t know
Is drunkenness intrinsically wrong?
- Thread starter HomeschoolDad
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RolandThompsonGunner
Guest
I think we need to define drunkenness to move forward. Some people would define it as feeling any effect from alcohol whatsoever, whereas some would say you’re not drunk as long as you’re on your feet. We have to make sure we’re all referring to the same thing.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21, Ephesians 5:18, Isaiah 5:1, amongst others.
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TK421
Guest
“Intrinsic evil” - as opposed to extrinsic evil - has a very specific definition and it’s not an intrinsic evil like certain other things because people can become drugged or inebriated for medical reasons (before modern medicine and going back to the Old Testament, it was normal to drink a lot of alcohol before a surgery and later drugs such as morphine were used) but causing harm to the body and to one’s judgment for recreation is a grave matter.
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avemariagratiaplena
Guest
I define it as feeling the effects of alcohol on the mind and reasoning. Any delays caused, any mishaps, etc, from that point on is “drunkenness”. Yes it is a mortal sin and is a negative prohibition on the laws of God (don’t get drunk) meaning it always applies and no one for any reason should willingly become drunk
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Soubirous1
Guest
drinking can lead to sinful behavior. you can also sin with a hammer or a stone.
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redcatholic
Guest
The sin of drunkenness is impairing your will so it is impeded from freely choosing God’s will. To give up control of your will to anything other than God is a grave matter. That’s why drunkenness is a sin.
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redcatholic
Guest
Drunkenness is altering your brain where your will is compromised from choosing the Good in all situations. For instance if your loose lips when you are drunk cause you to say things that are not something you would normally choose to say, then That’s a problem. Don’t even get me started on drunken actions!!
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Freddy
Guest
This is a matter of degree only. A single small glass of wine will have an affect on anyone. It may not be noticeable, but it is definitely there. Drink the whole bottle and the effects are very noticeable.
Where each of us determines the cut off point and under what circumstances it applies is an individual matter.
If I’m driving I’ll be well under the legal limit. If I’m at home watching the football I might well be well over. If I’m at home looking after the grandkids then I’ll be stone cold sober.
Where each of us determines the cut off point and under what circumstances it applies is an individual matter.
If I’m driving I’ll be well under the legal limit. If I’m at home watching the football I might well be well over. If I’m at home looking after the grandkids then I’ll be stone cold sober.
I get no effect whatsoever from a single 12 ounce beer or a small glass of wine, if taken with a meal as I normally do when I have a drink. I do, however, ask my family “are we in for the night — aside from driving around the corner to pick up a pizza (a literal stone’s throw from our house) — are you sure that, barring any dire emergency, you’re not going to be calling upon me to drive anywhere?”. It is not that I am affected, just the unpredictability of Breathalyzer tests. On the rare occasion that I have a meal in a sit-down restaurant and I am driving, I have a non-alcoholic beverage.
You are quite right. Alcohol used as an anesthetic, even if the person passes out, would be no sin whatsoever.
Drunkenness, as being discussed here, might better be described as "drinking alcohol to the point where one’s thinking, reason, will, speech, or motor faculties, are impaired sufficiently as to prevent the drinker from being a totally free agent, without excusing medical or therapeutic cause".
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Freddy
Guest
Most of us won’t feel it. But it doeshave an effect. It’s a drug. As soon as any of it gets to your brain it increases the production of dopamine. You may not be aware of it but it’s there.Freddy:
I get no effect whatsoever from a single 12 ounce beer or a small glass of wine, if taken with a meal as I normally do when I have a drink.
And I’m not suggesting that drinking is inherently wrong. The amount I drink is probably on the wrong side of what might be described as ‘moderate’. Correction: definitely on the wrong side…
I’m not conscious of it. Dopamine can be increased by means other than alcohol. I eat a very high-protein diet, and that increases dopamine as well.HomeschoolDad:
Most of us won’t feel it. But it does have an effect. It’s a drug. As soon as any of it gets to your brain it increases the production of dopamine. You may not be aware of it but it’s there.
And I’m not suggesting that drinking is inherently wrong. The amount I drink is probably on the wrong side of what might be described as ‘moderate’. Correction: definitely on the wrong side…
I am the closest thing possible to a teetotaler, without actually being one. A case of beer can last me a year. I might buy a 750 ml bottle of wine once a year as well.
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Freddy
Guest
Funnily enough my old man was a teetotaler. Never touched a drop in his life. He certainly didn’t pass on whatever genes are responsible to me…Freddy:
I’m not conscious of it. Dopamine can be increased by means other than alcohol. I eat a very high-protein diet, and that increases dopamine as well.HomeschoolDad:
Most of us won’t feel it. But it does have an effect. It’s a drug. As soon as any of it gets to your brain it increases the production of dopamine. You may not be aware of it but it’s there.
And I’m not suggesting that drinking is inherently wrong. The amount I drink is probably on the wrong side of what might be described as ‘moderate’. Correction: definitely on the wrong side…
I am the closest thing possible to a teetotaler, without actually being one. A case of beer can last me a year. I might buy a 750 ml bottle of wine once a year as well.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
As an Irish American, I guarantee you my idea of what constitutes “drunkenness” is probably radically different from some of the other folks on this forum.
Drinking alcohol is certainly not an intrinsic evil. If it were, then Catholic priests wouldn’t drink and monks wouldn’t brew beer.
Drinking alcohol is certainly not an intrinsic evil. If it were, then Catholic priests wouldn’t drink and monks wouldn’t brew beer.
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twf
Guest
Traditionally, the Church defines drunkenness as drinking to the point that you can no longer discern right from wrong. That line will vary.
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twf
Guest
Not pertinent to this thread… but I have to ask… do you really “drive” to the pizza place that’s a stone’s throw away? You can’t walk?
This is a personal pet peeve and not a judgment on you… but I’ve seen people who are so determined to drive everywhere that they will spend more time getting into the car, parking, and driving than it would take to walk… and I have to ask why…
This is a personal pet peeve and not a judgment on you… but I’ve seen people who are so determined to drive everywhere that they will spend more time getting into the car, parking, and driving than it would take to walk… and I have to ask why…
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And how do you define it?
I realize perfectly well that drinking alcohol is not intrinsically evil. As noted, I would define “drunkenness” as "drinking alcohol to the point where one’s thinking, reason, will, speech, or motor faculties, are impaired sufficiently as to prevent the drinker from being a totally free agent, without excusing medical or therapeutic cause".
The corner where I turn into the shopping center is the place that is a “stone’s throw away”. The pizza place is on the far end of the parking lot, and it’s a very big lot. We live in a suburban neighborhood that was not at all designed with pedestrians in mind, there are no sidewalks, you have to walk around the edge of a small wooded knoll, there is a lot of fast traffic, we are not talking about the gentlest, most socially aware drivers in the world, and we usually get pizza after dark when walking conditions would be even more hazardous.
So that’s why we drive. I fully share your sentiment that people need to do more walking and less driving, but in some circumstances, that’s just not possible, and ours are among those circumstances.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I define “drunkenness” the same way Justice Potter Stewart defined “obscenity” in Jacobellis v. Ohio, 378 U.S. 184, 197 (1964):
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Not drunk is he who from the floor
Can get back up and drink some more
But drink is he who prostrate lies
Without the power to drink or rise
(Not really, I just like this poem)
Can get back up and drink some more
But drink is he who prostrate lies
Without the power to drink or rise
(Not really, I just like this poem)
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