Is Eastern Catholicism the same Eastern Orthodoxy?

[Madaglan]

Is Eastern Catholicism the same Eastern Orthodoxy? Just curious; my grandfather was Eastern Orthodox.

Sort of. There are many factors. The Eastern Catholics derive from the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and so much of their spirituality, theology, liturgy, and so on is very similar. I’ve heard of Eastern Catholic priests who, when asked for more information on the Eastern Catholicism, will recommend Orthodox books. There is a connection.

However, I have experienced both Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, and I have to say, there is a difference in mien among the people of the two. Many Eastern Catholics come from the border countries between East/West (e.g. Ukraine), while the vast majority of Eastern Orthodox today (in terms of numbers) are of a Russian influence. This could be a reason.

 

[Wesley7]

Dear brother Wesley,

We are part of the CC. The RCC is also part of the CC. Ideally, the RCC is as much a part of us as we are a part of them, for we are united in the Catholic Church, the body of Christ.

Blessings,
Marduk

Dear brother Marduk, I thought of the RCC as being the Mother Church where the Bishop of Rome resides in location of holy see.

 

[Wesley7]

Dear brother Wesley,

We are part of the CC. The RCC is also part of the CC. Ideally, the RCC is as much a part of us as we are a part of them, for we are united in the Catholic Church, the body of Christ.

Blessings,
Marduk

Dear brother mardukm, I spoke of the Church of Rome where the Bishop of Rome resides with the holy see in the West.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

My apologies. It can be hard to remember all the rules, and I had to search thoroughly to find that one. I avoided suggesting moral culpability for the lack of unity and their situation like that of any non-Catholic Christians clearly meets the definition of schism as refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or communion with members of the Church subject to him. I personally would hope an Orthodox individual would consider me schismatic and would not be afraid to say so, since this would indicate a common understanding that there is a single true Church founded by Jesus Christ which we should be a full part of. I say this not to argue against CAF policy but to show where my own statement came from.

Let me amend my statement in light of this rule: The most important difference is that Eastern Catholics are true Catholics while Eastern Orthodox are (whether they are morally culpable for it or not) members of Churches which are currently outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church.

Of course, one issue in any discussion of Catholics and Orthodox is that both sides use “Catholic” and “Orthodox” in describing themselves.

The term “katholikos” was and is used throughout the Christian East and originally had nothing to do with being under the Pope of Rome. It referred to the Eucharistic model of the Church where the “whole” is present in the “part.”

In the first millennium of the Church, Rome was one of several patriarchates and exercised no immediate jurisdiction over anyone other than its own territory. The only way Rome could get involved in another Church’s “business” is if that Church broke a canon established by an Ecumenical Council or else contradicted the Faith held in common.

And both sides today regard one another as not being the full Catholic Church. On the Orthodox side, this is because Rome deviated from the Faith regarding the Trinity and a number of other issues.

As an Eastern Catholic, it is always a humbling experience for me to know that Orthodox Christians regard me as having fallen away from the Orthodox Faith of the Catholic Church and some see Eastern Catholics as being worse than ever since we are “Roman Catholics” who continue to use Eastern forms for worship.

Even though I have complained about Rome’s treatment of EC Churches and the Ukrainian Catholic Church in particular, the fact is that Rome today does understand that the historic “union model” it once promoted whereby parts of Orthodox Churches were brought under Rome etc. was simply wrong and it has repented of its mistake.

Perhaps the way for Catholics and Orthodox to renew their debate on unity is if the Eastern Catholic Churches became one with their Mother Orthodox Churches, thereby removing the “unia” obstacle. It is really useless for the UGCC to continue in its efforts to be taken seriously by both Rome and Orthodoxy. We need to redress history first.

Also, here is an icon of the Mother of God of Berdichiv, venerated by Catholics and Orthodox alike in Ukraine. Our Lady holds a Scapular in her right hand . . .

kda.org.ua/images/stories/Ch._Ikony/berdychiv.jpg

Alex

 

[A_G]

What does it mean to be in communion with?

Simply put, “in communion with” means to be part of the same Church. Latin Rite Catholics and Eastern Rite Catholics are in communion, for example. They are part of the same Church.

Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox are all Christians, however they are not in communion with one another. Catholics are under the leadership of His Holiness the Pope. Protestants reject the Pope and even eachother as the various denominations have different views from eachother. The Orthodox also don’t recognize the Pope as the Vicar of Christ, so they are separate as well.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

“Communion with” is really a term that is prevalent in Orthodox ecclesiology and implies an equality of those “in communon with” one another.

How does that mesh with Roman Catholic ecclesiology today? Does Rome see itself as being equal to the Eastern Churches in communion with it? What about the whole authoritarian structure “thing?”

In fact, it is nonsense for EC’s to speak of being in communion with Rome today. EC Churches must go through Rome for every single little administrative matter etc.

EC Churches are “under” Rome while struggling to maintain a brave face by calling this “communion with Rome.”

We EC’s should simply stop pretending.

Alex

 

[jam070406]

“Communion with” is really a term that is prevalent in Orthodox ecclesiology and implies an equality of those “in communon with” one another.

How does that mesh with Roman Catholic ecclesiology today? Does Rome see itself as being equal to the Eastern Churches in communion with it? What about the whole authoritarian structure “thing?”

In fact, it is nonsense for EC’s to speak of being in communion with Rome today. EC Churches must go through Rome for every single little administrative matter etc.

EC Churches are “under” Rome while struggling to maintain a brave face by calling this “communion with Rome.”

We EC’s should simply stop pretending.

Alex

I sympathize with your concern, as a LC that has had just about every tradition changed from the top. In fact, we just changed what had been changed. Sadly, I’m not even sure what it means to be Catholic anymore.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

I sympathize with your concern, as a LC that has had just about every tradition changed from the top. In fact, we just changed what had been changed. Sadly, I’m not even sure what it means to be Catholic anymore.

Well, but you belong to a grand tradition in the Latin Church and in many ways, I’m jealous!

There is a strength and vitality to the Latin Catholic tradition that is absent in others. To be Catholic means to hold the Apostolic faith in unbroken succession!

Cheers!

Alex

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Of course, one issue in any discussion of Catholics and Orthodox is that both sides use “Catholic” and “Orthodox” in describing themselves.

The term “katholikos” was and is used throughout the Christian East and originally had nothing to do with being under the Pope of Rome. It referred to the Eucharistic model of the Church where the “whole” is present in the “part.”

In the first millennium of the Church, Rome was one of several patriarchates and exercised no immediate jurisdiction over anyone other than its own territory. The only way Rome could get involved in another Church’s “business” is if that Church broke a canon established by an Ecumenical Council or else contradicted the Faith held in common.

And both sides today regard one another as not being the full Catholic Church. On the Orthodox side, this is because Rome deviated from the Faith regarding the Trinity and a number of other issues.

As an Eastern Catholic, it is always a humbling experience for me to know that Orthodox Christians regard me as having fallen away from the Orthodox Faith of the Catholic Church and some see Eastern Catholics as being worse than ever since we are “Roman Catholics” who continue to use Eastern forms for worship.

Even though I have complained about Rome’s treatment of EC Churches and the Ukrainian Catholic Church in particular, the fact is that Rome today does understand that the historic “union model” it once promoted whereby parts of Orthodox Churches were brought under Rome etc. was simply wrong and it has repented of its mistake.

Perhaps the way for Catholics and Orthodox to renew their debate on unity is if the Eastern Catholic Churches became one with their Mother Orthodox Churches, thereby removing the “unia” obstacle. It is really useless for the UGCC to continue in its efforts to be taken seriously by both Rome and Orthodoxy. We need to redress history first.

Also, here is an icon of the Mother of God of Berdichiv, venerated by Catholics and Orthodox alike in Ukraine. Our Lady holds a Scapular in her right hand . . .

kda.org.ua/images/stories/Ch._Ikony/berdychiv.jpg

Alex

Needless to say (but I’ll say it anyway), not every Catholic would agree with this analysis of the situation. This isn’t the time or place to debate that though.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Needless to say (but I’ll say it anyway), not every Catholic would disagree with this analysis of the situation. This isn’t the time or place to debate that though.

I’m always out of place . . . and out on tangents!

Alex

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I’m always out of place . . . and out on tangents!

Alex

Note I just edited my statement. Meant to say either that not every Catholic would agree or not every Catholic would agree.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Note I just edited my statement. Meant to say either that not every Catholic would agree or not every Catholic would agree.

I like to think that we are above most Catholics!

Wouldn’t you agree?

Alex

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I like to think that we are above most Catholics!

Wouldn’t you agree?

Alex

I seem to be having a typo party here. Maybe I should call it quits for a while.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Note I just edited my statement. Meant to say either that not every Catholic would agree or not every Catholic would agree.

I seem to be having a typo party here. Maybe I should call it quits for a while.

 

[RastaPasta]

Hello:

I am currently reading “Catholicism For Dummies” because:

A) I have a limited understanding of Catholicism, even though I am a baptized Catholic (and attended Catholic School for 9 years).

B) I love the “Dummy” series of books, because they take complex subjects and break them down into easy to understand formats… “Catholicism For Dummies” is actually a pretty good book.

In any event, I’m a bit confused at the moment.

There’s the Western Church, which is predominately the Roman Latin Rite, the Eastern Church, which is predominately the Byzantine Rite, and both the Western and Eastern Churches have other Rites.

I get that.

But is the Eastern Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church one and the same?

Does the Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Churches make up the Eastern Orthodox Church?

Are the Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches Catholic, or are they separate religions different than the Catholic Church?

If you are Roman Catholic, can you receive communion in any of the Eastern Orthodox Churches and would the sacrament be valid?

Are there other Orthodox Churches besides Greek and Russian Orthodox?

Is there such a thing as a Greek Catholic Rite, or is it always Greek Orthodox when referring to individuals that belong to a Greek Church.

I expect that these questions have been asked before, but I am really confused about the Eastern Catholic/Eastern Orthodox thing.

Thank you in advance, for your attention in this matter.

God Bless.

 

[followingtheway]

^ What is that 1% difference?

This guy
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V
http://www.cityjournalistdirectory.com/get_image.php?id=176615

 

[5Loaves]

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Welcome to the CAF Eastern Catholicism section.

B) I love the “Dummy” series of books, because they take complex subjects and break them down into easy to understand formats… “Catholicism For Dummies” is actually a pretty good book.

Fr. John and Fr. Kenneth are both priests of the Latin AKA Roman Catholic Church and this book is largely from that perspective. That being said I agree that it is a very helpful book. I don’t remember what they say about us and about Orthodoxy but when I’ve heard Fr Trigilio make any references to Eastern and Oriental Catholic and to Orthodoxy on radio and TV he’s been reasonably accurate and more knowledgeable about us than many/most priests of the Latin Church.

But is the Eastern Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church one and the same?

Eastern Catholic Churches and Eastern Orthodox are not one and the same. Since this topic does come up here, and has been in very recent threads I’m sure you’ll get responses here. Generally questions which are directed to Holy Orthodoxy are posted in the “Non-Catholic Religions” section, so don’t be surprised if you are asked to post there as well.

Since you like the Dummies book you might like Fr. Loya’s “poor man’s power point” for a very basic two minutes on our Churches separation and where we ECs are in that. This little description he does is in the first four minutes of a Youtube of his on Theology of the Body, before he begins to teach on TOB. Fr. Tom also has a weekly radio program, Light of the East, Sunday mornings on Catholic Radio designed to expose Catholics of the Latin/Roman Church and others to our Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches.

I think the Wikipedia section on Eastern Catholic Churches gives a good basic description of our Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches.

I’ve very partial also to “Who are Eastern Catholics?” with Fr. Maximos of HRM PART 1 and PART 2 In each of these you can click on the " (more info)" below the video window to bring up a list of all the questions Catherine asks in each segment.

The best way to learn more about Eastern Catholics is to come to our Divine Liturgy and pray with us. You can use Find a Parish to find one near you. In an Eastern Catholic Church any Catholic properly disposed to receive Eucharist may receive Holy Eucharist.

I’m surprised you haven’t already had many responses. I’m sure others will have plenty to say.

 

[ConstantineTG]

But is the Eastern Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church one and the same?

No. Eastern Catholic Churches are those who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Churches but re-established communion with Rome, which also resulted in the loss of communion with the Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Does the Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Churches make up the Eastern Orthodox Church?

Yes, but there’s a longer list of other Churches in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Are the Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches Catholic, or are they separate religions different than the Catholic Church?

To put it simply, they are true Apostolic Churches like the Roman Catholic Church, but they are not in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Thus one cannot freely receive Sacraments from their Church is one is Catholic.

If you are Roman Catholic, can you receive communion in any of the Eastern Orthodox Churches and would the sacrament be valid?

The Sacrament is valid. The RC Church says yes provided there are some conditions, and on top of this it would be the discretion of the Orthodox priest whether he will admit you to receive the Eucharist or not.

Are there other Orthodox Churches besides Greek and Russian Orthodox?

Yes there are. I suggest Wikipedia to see the list (sorry I’m a bit lazy today)

Is there such a thing as a Greek Catholic Rite, or is it always Greek Orthodox when referring to individuals that belong to a Greek Church.

There is the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church which is the Catholic equivalent of the Greek Orthodox Church.

I expect that these questions have been asked before, but I am really confused about the Eastern Catholic/Eastern Orthodox thing.

Thank you in advance, for your attention in this matter.

God Bless.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Hello:

I am currently reading “Catholicism For Dummies” because:

A) I have a limited understanding of Catholicism, even though I am a baptized Catholic (and attended Catholic School for 9 years).

B) I love the “Dummy” series of books, because they take complex subjects and break them down into easy to understand formats… “Catholicism For Dummies” is actually a pretty good book.

In any event, I’m a bit confused at the moment.

There’s the Western Church, which is predominately the Roman Latin Rite, the Eastern Church, which is predominately the Byzantine Rite, and both the Western and Eastern Churches have other Rites.

I get that.

But is the Eastern Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church one and the same? No.

Does the Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Churches make up the Eastern Orthodox Church? Yes

Are the Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches Catholic, or are they separate religions different than the Catholic Church? Separate

If you are Roman Catholic, can you receive communion in any of the Eastern Orthodox Churches and would the sacrament be valid? Depends on where you live, but since they have valid succession their sacraments are valid.

Are there other Orthodox Churches besides Greek and Russian Orthodox? Coptic, Oriental, Ethiopian I believe - and I think they’re actually separate churches from the “Eastern Orthodox”.

Is there such a thing as a Greek Catholic Rite, or is it always Greek Orthodox when referring to individuals that belong to a Greek Church. Byzantine Catholics are Greek Catholics, it’s just that these days we just call em Byzantine because they’re not all Greek.

I expect that these questions have been asked before, but I am really confused about the Eastern Catholic/Eastern Orthodox thing.

Thank you in advance, for your attention in this matter.

God Bless.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

To be clear on an important point, ordinarily we Catholics are not to receive communion at an Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox church, or the Assyrian Church of the East, all of which are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

We may, however, receive communion at any Catholic church, Western or Eastern, assuming we don’t have any of the normal impediments to that like mortal sin or excommunication. It’s all the same Catholic Church, though with different governing bodies (under the same Pope), liturgies, etc.