Is Eastern Catholicism the same Eastern Orthodoxy?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Angela77
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Actually let me do it this way rather than piecemeal.
RastaPasta said:
Hello:

I am currently reading “Catholicism For Dummies” because:

A) I have a limited understanding of Catholicism, even though I am a baptized Catholic (and attended Catholic School for 9 years).

B) I love the “Dummy” series of books, because they take complex subjects and break them down into easy to understand formats… “Catholicism For Dummies” is actually a pretty good book.

In any event, I’m a bit confused at the moment.

There’s the Western Church, which is predominately the Roman Latin Rite, the Eastern Church, which is predominately the Byzantine Rite, and both the Western and Eastern Churches have other Rites.

I get that.

But is the Eastern Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church one and the same? No. “Eastern Church” could refer to all the Churches derived from non-Western traditions, including Eastern Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East. All of these except the last are made up of multiple Churches that function independent of each other. Only the Eastern Catholics are fully Catholic. Most Eastern Catholic Churches are derived from reunions with Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, or communities of what we used to call the Nestorian Church, of which the Assyrian Church of the East is the sole remnant. Some though, like the Maronite Catholic Church, have essentially always been Catholic and don’t have exact equivalents outside the Catholic Church.

Does the Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Churches make up the Eastern Orthodox Church? As others have said, these are two of many Eastern Orthodox Churches

Are the Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches Catholic, or are they separate religions different than the Catholic Church? They are separate from the Catholic Church, though some people would take offence at their being called separate religions. They are still Christian, and indeed their beliefs and those of Eastern Catholics are often very similar.

If you are Roman Catholic, can you receive communion in any of the Eastern Orthodox Churches and would the sacrament be valid? The sacrament would be valid, but ordinarily we are not to receive communion in a non-Catholic Church. Also if I’m not mistaken most if not virtually all Orthodox priests would refuse to give you communion if they knew you were Catholic.

Are there other Orthodox Churches besides Greek and Russian Orthodox? Yes.

Is there such a thing as a Greek Catholic Rite, or is it always Greek Orthodox when referring to individuals that belong to a Greek Church. Yes, called the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church. I do not believe they exist in the United States though. You will find the word “Greek” in the names of some other Eastern Catholic Churches, but that basically refers to the fact that their liturgy is Byzantine, not any specific connection to Greece. What is commonly called simply the “Byzantine Catholic Church” in the United States is in fact the Ruthenian Catholic Church, whose origins are in the mountains around the border of Ukraine, Hungary, and Slovakia.

I expect that these questions have been asked before, but I am really confused about the Eastern Catholic/Eastern Orthodox thing.

Thank you in advance, for your attention in this matter.

God Bless.
Click to expand...
 
RastaPasta said:
…
Click to expand...
West and east divided since ancient times, then the Church in those regions developed differently. Assyrian Church of the East, Oriental Orthodox (six Churches), and Eastern Orthodox, Catholic (now Latin and 22 eastern ritual Churches), and Christian ecclesial communities.


Map of the Roman Empire with praetorian prefectures, in 400 AD.

The Catholic Churches have correspondences to the Assyrian Church of the East (Chaldean) the Oriental Orthodox (West Syrian and Alexandrian and Armenian) and the Eastern Orthodox (Constantinople).

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=601&pictureid=9279
 
Alexander_Roman said:
Perhaps the way for Catholics and Orthodox to renew their debate on unity is if the Eastern Catholic Churches became one with their Mother Orthodox Churches, thereby removing the “unia” obstacle. It is really useless for the UGCC to continue in its efforts to be taken seriously by both Rome and Orthodoxy. We need to redress history first.

Alex
Click to expand...
Might as well. From reading posts from Eastern Catholics here, a lot of you seem more attached to Orthodoxy and I could never quite understand why you are in “communion”. Going back to Orthodoxy might stop all the cognitive dissonance.

But of course the bad part would be that you wouldn’t be in … “communion”.
 
I wrote this answer a year or more ago but it pretty much explains the major details:

Most people are not aware that the “Catholic Church” is actually comprised of twenty-three self-governing Catholic Churches, all in union with the pope. The Western, or Latin Catholic Church, is so large, however, that many people, even Catholics, are completely unaware of the other twenty-two churches, which make up the Eastern Branch. (Some have from only a few thousand members to a few million.)

Originally, there was only one denomination… the Catholic Church (the word Catholic meaning “universal”). However, there were five cities that early on were singled out as being important centers of Christianity. They were Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and of course, Rome. Each developed its own unique traditions and liturgy, but ALL shared a common theology and were in communion with each other and the Bishop of Rome, known as the Pope. However, about 1000 years ago, due to a variety of unfortunate problems, the other four cities, allied with the Byzantine Empire, mutually broke off from Rome, forming the various Eastern Orthodox Churches. Although doctrinally, they are virtually identical to Catholics, they refuse to acknowledge that the pope is more than a “first among equals”. (A couple groups broke of much earlier in the 400s AD also, to form what are known as the Oriental Orthodox Churches).

What has happened is that over time, some portions of each of the various Orthodox groups have decided to reconcile with the Catholic Church and come back into communion with Rome. When they do, they are allowed to keep all of their traditions and much of their independence, although they acknowledge the authority of the Pope. They become truly Catholic, in that anyone from ANY branch of the Catholic Church can participate in the liturgy and ceremonies of any OTHER branch of the Catholic Church. The only two Eastern groups that never fell out of communion with the Catholic Church were the Maronite Catholic Church, and the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church. So… for every branch of the Orthodox Churches that are NOT in communion with Rome, there is a corresponding and virtually identical branch of the Eastern Catholic Church that IS in communion with Rome. Since their customs and liturgies date from before the Council of Trent, they are allowed to remain.

The following liturgies are used by the Eastern Catholic Churches:
  • The Liturgy of St. Basil
  • The Chaldean Mass
  • The Order of the Divine and Holy Liturgy of Our Father Among the Saints Gregory the Theologian (or Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts)
  • The Liturgy of St. James
  • The Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom
  • The Liturgy of St. Mark
  • The Holy Qorbono
 
continued…

Here is a listing that includes EACH of the twenty-three Catholic Churches in union with the Pope. Do not confuse “churches” with “rites”. A rite is a series of traditions, that includes different customs and liturgies. Several different churches may use the exact same rite. A Church has its own rules and separate line of authority to the Pope. It may also have a figure in charge, like a Metropolitan or a Patriarch (like an Archbishop), since these churches are generally very small and work very hard to preserve their unique traditions. The major rites are the Latin, Alexandrian, Antiochian, Armenian, Chaldean, and Byzantine.

**The Western (Latin) Catholic Church

Latin liturgical tradition**
  1. Ordinary Form (This is the form of the Mass that you will find in virtually every Latin Catholic Church almost every day of the week. This Mass has existed since the mid-1960s, ever since reforms were made following the Second Vatican Council.)
  2. Extraordinary Form (This is the form of the Mass that was used in virtually every Latin Catholic Church from the Middle Ages until the mid-1960s. It may still be said in Catholic Churches should a priest choose to use it. Some of the differences from the Ordinary Form include the exclusive use of the Latin language (except for the homily), the receipt of Communion exclusively on the tongue and kneeling, the priest facing the same direction as the people (toward the altar and God) so he can lead the people in prayer, no lay participation on the altar, and usually, no responses by lay people.)
  3. Ambrosian Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Milan)
  4. Mozarabic Rite (Only permitted in the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain and a few surrounding churches of the diocese)
  5. Bragan Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Braga, Portugal)
  6. Anglican-Use Mass (This form was once only permitted in the extremely rare circumstance in which an Anglican priest converted to Catholicism and brings his entire parish with him. In that event, a parish could continue to use the Anglican liturgy, with corrections to make it conform with Catholic teachings. It was originally meant as a transitional liturgy, and upon the death of the pastor, the church would revert to the Ordinary Form. With the recent provisions announced by the Vatican to allow Anglicans into the Catholic Church and keep their traditions, it seems that the Anglican-Use will now become both far more widespread AND permanent.)
**Rites of Religious Orders **
  1. Dominican Rite
  2. Carthusian Rite
  3. Carmelite Rite
  4. Cisternian Rite
Note: Technically, the forms of the Latin liturgy listed above are NOT different rites, but variations of the SAME rite, although people do tend to commonly use the term somewhat erroneously in this context. The differences between the Latin “rites” are FAR less than those between the Latin liturgy and any of the Eastern Rites.)

**The Eastern Catholic Churches
  1. Alexandrian liturgical tradition**
  2. Coptic Catholic Church (patriarchate): Egypt (1741)
  3. Ethiopian Catholic Church (metropolia): Ethiopia, Eritrea (1846)
    2. Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition
  4. Maronite Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Argentina, Brazil, United States, Australia, Canada, Mexico (union re-affirmed 1182)
  5. Syriac Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Palestine, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United States and Canada, Venezuela (1781)
  6. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): India, United States (1930)
    3. Armenian liturgical tradition:
  7. Armenian Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Palestine, Ukraine, France, Greece, Latin America, Argentina, Romania, United States, Canada, Eastern Europe (1742)
    4. Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition:
  8. Chaldean Catholic Church (patriarchate): Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, United States (1692)
  9. Syro-Malabar Church (major archiepiscopate): India, Middle East, Europe and America.
    5. Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
  10. Albanian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic administration): Albania (1628)
  11. Belarusian Greek Catholic Church (no established hierarchy at present): Belarus (1596)
  12. Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic exarchate): Bulgaria (1861)
  13. Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro (1611)
  14. Greek Byzantine Catholic Church (two apostolic exarchates): Greece, Turkey (1829)
  15. Hungarian Greek Catholic Church (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Hungary (1646)
  16. Italo-Albanian Catholic Church (two eparchies and a territorial abbacy): Italy (Never separated)
  17. Macedonian Greek Catholic Church (an apostolic exarchate): Republic of Macedonia (1918)
  18. Melkite Greek Catholic Church (patriarchate): Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Jerusalem, Brazil, United States, Canada, Mexico, Iraq, Egypt and Sudan, Kuwait, Australia, Venezuela, Argentina (1726)
  19. Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic (major archiepiscopate): Romania, United States (1697)
  20. Russian Catholic Church: (two apostolic exarchates, at present with no published hierarchs): Russia, China (1905); currently about 20 parishes and communities scattered around the world, including five in Russia itself, answering to bishops of other jurisdictions
  21. Ruthenian Catholic Church (a sui juris metropolia, an eparchy, and an apostolic exarchate): United States, Ukraine, Czech Republic (1646)
  22. Slovak Greek Catholic Church (metropolia): Slovak Republic, Canada (1646)
  23. Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): Ukraine, Poland, United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, France, Brazil, Argentina (1595)
 
TrueLight said:
Might as well. From reading posts from Eastern Catholics here, a lot of you seem more attached to Orthodoxy and I could never quite understand why you are in “communion”. Going back to Orthodoxy might stop all the cognitive dissonance.

But of course the bad part would be that you wouldn’t be in … “communion”.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I don’t think it’s that many of us are more attached to Orthodoxy. It’s more along the lines of being attached to our traditional (and rightful) Orthodox/Eastern or Oriental patrimony; something that we weren’t originally supposed to lose by entering into communion with Rome. This patrimony is something that we have had to fight tooth-and-nail to maintain or regain (where lost).

For some Eastern Catholics remaining in communion with Rome is more a matter of how they were raised. They were raised Eastern Catholic, so they remain Eastern Catholic for their lifetime. For others it is a matter of conscience. They do believe that to be out of communion with Rome is to be lacking in something, some fullness (although few [save for Marduk] would be able to p(name removed by moderator)oint exactly what would be lacking). Personally I remain in communion for two reasons: first, I’ve not been convinced that Rome has ever taught any sort of heresy on the official level. Secondly, I recognize that the grass is far from greener on the other side of the “communion.” Since I was raised in a good Catholic home (by God’s mercy) I know the problems within the Catholic Church. I would rather deal with problems with which I am familiar than embrace an entire new set of problems and learn how to cope with those. 😛

One other thing, we must also be respectful of those who have gone before us. Many people, particularly in Ukraine, have suffered and even died to maintain communion with Rome; and this at the hands of both the Orthodox and Roman Catholics. Those who died at the hands of Roman Catholics were, more often than not, Eastern Catholics who were trying to maintain their authentic Eastern identity and heritage. Their loyalty to Rome in the face of martyrdom at the hands of their own brothers is something that ought to be both admired and respected. Obviously they thought communion with Rome was worth dieing for.
 
I would like to know how Eastern Catholic’s differ from Roman Catholic’s?

Do they have the same Pope as Roman Catholic’s?

What do Roman Catholic’s believe that Eastern Catholic’s don’t believe?
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
I would take that chart with a grain of salt. Maybe a heaping tablespoon of salt.

I’m pretty stridently Western as ConstantineTG will testify to, but I would find myself often (not always) more in line with the Eastern side of the chart than the Western, and many Latin Rite parishes would be too.

Of course, I understand that a chart like that necessarily has to be extremely simplified.
 
I would say the chart is pretty accurate with what is an average RC parish here in North America.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
I would take that chart with a grain of salt. Maybe a heaping tablespoon of salt.

I’m pretty stridently Western as ConstantineTG will testify to, but I would find myself often (not always) more in line with the Eastern side of the chart than the Western, and many Latin Rite parishes would be too.

Of course, I understand that a chart like that necessarily has to be extremely simplified.
Click to expand...
Broad brush strokes, yes. Still, it works in my area of the country.
 
nhojw said:
I would like to know how Eastern Catholic’s differ from Roman Catholic’s?
Click to expand...
ECs cross themselves at every…and any…given moment during service…(how did this one not come up?) 😉
 
Bezant said:
ECs cross themselves at every…and any…given moment during service…(how did this one not come up?) 😉
Click to expand...
Plus bend or touch the floor with the crossings. 😃
We’ve been in the Nativity Fast since Nov.15, or for the folks on the old calendar, AKA the right calendar, since Nov. 28 🙂
We call our deacons “Father” and they smother us with incense. 👍 (Our priest says it’s a successful Liturgy when the smoke alarm goes off.)
 
Bezant said:
ECs cross themselves at every…and any…given moment during service…(how did this one not come up?) 😉
Click to expand...
The author meant to include it, but lifted his hands from the keyboard to cross himself . . .:rotfl:
 
Angela77 said:
Is Eastern Catholicism the same Eastern Orthodoxy? Just curious; my grandfather was Eastern Orthodox.
Click to expand...
many different things, its not 99%. Eastern Catholics believe in purgatory,Immaculate Conception Papal infallibility etc… The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church in the world against contraception,[because God guides His Church]the eastern schismatics only accept the first 7 councils, they reject everything after 787.
The Catholic Church is one just like Jesus wanted. St.John 10:16 - Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd. This cannot mean many denominations and many pastors, all teaching different doctrines. Those outside the fold must be brought into the Church.

some of the heretical teachings of the eastern schismatics are

1.No Heaven until Jesus returns
2.No Hell until Jesus returns(i guess Core[Korah] and his minions are soul sleeping)[Numbers 26:10]
3.The Holy Ghost proceeds ONLY from The Father.

Hope this somewhat helps.

“In the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter, the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head–that is why he is also called Cephas ‘Rock’]–of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church.” St. Optatus, “The Schism of the Donatists,” c. 367 A.D.
 
LexusGs350 said:
many different things, its not 99%. Eastern Catholics believe in purgatory,Immaculate Conception Papal infallibility etc… The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church in the world against contraception,[because God guides His Church]the eastern schismatics only accept the first 7 councils, they reject everything after 787.
The Catholic Church is one just like Jesus wanted. St.John 10:16 - Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd. This cannot mean many denominations and many pastors, all teaching different doctrines. Those outside the fold must be brought into the Church.

some of the heretical teachings of the eastern schismatics are

1.No Heaven until Jesus returns
2.No Hell until Jesus returns(i guess Core[Korah] and his minions are soul sleeping)[Numbers 26:10]
3.The Holy Ghost proceeds ONLY from The Father.

Hope this somewhat helps.

“In the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter, the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head–that is why he is also called Cephas ‘Rock’]–of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church.” St. Optatus, “The Schism of the Donatists,” c. 367 A.D.
Click to expand...
Oh my. :rolleyes:

(you might want to review the forum rules).
 
It really depends on who you ask. Internet forums that discuss Eastern Catholicism tend to be heavily dominated by recent convents, who often give answers that reflect only the way they would like to see things, and not as they really are. In reality, I’d say the beliefs of quite a few cradle EC’s are noticeably different than the Orthodox.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top