Is Eastern Catholicism the same Eastern Orthodoxy?

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Seamus_L said:
It really depends on who you ask. Internet forums that discuss Eastern Catholicism tend to be heavily dominated by recent convents, who often give answers that reflect only the way they would like to see things, and not as they really are. In reality, I’d say the beliefs of quite a few cradle EC’s are noticeably different than the Orthodox.
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You can say the same about Roman Catholics who frequent Eastern forums and try to force RC traditions on the Eastern Catholics.

By the way, I know I’m one of the people you are referring here since I am a recent “convert”. Funny thing is I learned a lot from Dr. Alex who is as cradle as a cradle UGCC can be (he’s the son and grandson of UGCC priests and he has a doctorate in Eastern Christian Theology) and yet I share his views. So your observation is not correct.
 
But I’ve never suggested that Eastern Catholics should begin adopting traditions from the Latin Rite, and even if I did, I don’t how I as a Latin Rite layman could possibly begin implementing the process.
My point, for many years now, has been that Eastern Catholics have chosen to adopt certain devotions, traditions, etc that originated in the Latin Church, and that attempting to force them to abandon them, would do more harm than good.
 
Seamus_L said:
But I’ve never suggested that Eastern Catholics should begin adopting traditions from the Latin Rite, and even if I did, I don’t how I as a Latin Rite layman could possibly begin implementing the process.
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                             My point, for many years now, has been that Eastern Catholics have chosen to adopt certain devotions, traditions, etc that originated in the Latin Church, and that attempting to force them to abandon them, would do more harm than good.
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I have to admit, even in my own parish people refer to the Divine Liturgy as “Mass”. Not just because people do or say something it doesn’t mean its the correct way of doing things. One reason EC parishes are half empty is because most people don’t see any difference between their Church and the RC Church, and just abandon their own theological heritage. Now, its fine if people find the Western praxis more suiting to their spirituality. Its not fine when there is indifference. The problem with indifference is its a great avenue for Latinizations, and through Latinizations the EC will disappear into the Latin Church. Not a good thing.

Many cradle ECs do not even know their own praxis. The other day I was pinching peroggies with the ladies of our parish, majority of them cradles UGCC and they’re all much older than I am. And I am the one who had to explain why we celebrate Mary’s conception on December 9 and not December 8 like the RCs. Thats fine, its not like a great majority of RCs know their own faith. Your everyday, average RC has probably the same amount of catechesis. Which really is a sad thing for all of us.
 
At the same time, we have some EC priests who may one day be made Saints, who practiced devotions that are considered now by some to be Latinizations such as the Rosary, Stations of the Cross, Sacred Heart of Jesus, Immaculate Heart of Mary, Our Lady of Fatima, and Adoration. Surely they could not be accused of not knowing the Eastern praxis.
 
Seamus_L said:
At the same time, we have some EC priests who may one day be made Saints, who practiced devotions that are considered now by some to be Latinizations such as the Rosary, Stations of the Cross, Sacred Heart of Jesus, Immaculate Heart of Mary, Our Lady of Fatima, and Adoration. Surely they could not be accused of not knowing the Eastern praxis.
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Latinizations is not an evil thing that cannot lead one to holiness. No one is making that claim. Latinizations is bad because we lose out on authentic spirituality and traditions held for centuries. As Pope John Paul II has said, a truth sometimes is better expressed in one tradition over another. If we lose the other traditions, then we lose the whole truth.
 
ConstantineTG said:
You can say the same about Roman Catholics who frequent Eastern forums and try to force RC traditions on the Eastern Catholics.

By the way, I know I’m one of the people you are referring here since I am a recent “convert”. Funny thing is I learned a lot from Dr. Alex who is as cradle as a cradle UGCC can be (he’s the son and grandson of UGCC priests and he has a doctorate in Eastern Christian Theology) and yet I share his views. So your observation is not correct.
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When did Dr. Alex receive his doctorate in theology? Last I knew of his vita, he had a doctorate in sociology.
 
5Loaves said:
Plus bend or touch the floor with the crossings. 😃
We’ve been in the Nativity Fast since Nov.15, or for the folks on the old calendar, AKA the right calendar, since Nov. 28 🙂
We call our deacons “Father” and they smother us with incense. 👍 (Our priest says it’s a successful Liturgy when the smoke alarm goes off.)
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😃
 
5Loaves said:
Plus bend or touch the floor with the crossings. 😃
We’ve been in the Nativity Fast since Nov.15, or for the folks on the old calendar, AKA the right calendar, since Nov. 28 🙂
We call our deacons “Father” and they smother us with incense. 👍 (Our priest says it’s a successful Liturgy when the smoke alarm goes off.)
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I was told a story that a priest says that its not a good Divine Liturgy if there is no danger of burning the church down :D:D:D:D
 
ConstantineTG said:
Latinizations is not an evil thing that cannot lead one to holiness. No one is making that claim. Latinizations is bad because we lose out on authentic spirituality and traditions held for centuries. As Pope John Paul II has said, a truth sometimes is better expressed in one tradition over another. If we lose the other traditions, then we lose the whole truth.
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I fully agree with this. We need more eastern Catholic churches in the west. The catechesis would spike when the clueless run-of-the-mill Catholics realize that there’s more than just the latin rite. In addition, I think this would stir up the protestant majority into a slight confusion. If many Roman Catholics don’t even know about the east, then an even smaller amount of the protestant population knows about the east. The eastern rites are so beautiful and expressive! It’s terrible that the west misses out on this so much. Like the diagram some posts ago shows, the east and west compliment each other. I can only imagine the joy on people’s eyes when they see the east and think, “There’s MORE?”
 
How do eastern Catholics differ from our brothers and sisters in the Roman Church?

We differ liturgically both in the divine liturgy and in the holy hours. We differ in our liturgical music.

We differ in the calendar of saints and feasts.

We differ in the way Scripture is used in the liturgies.

We differ in terms of our paraliturgical rituals and in our private devotions.

We differ in terms of our root languages for the English translations. We, many of us, tend to be an engaging mix of both Slavic and Greek habits of language and mind.

We catechize differently. We tend to reach for an appropriate Orthodox text in teaching before we reach for one from the Roman rite.

We tend to look toward the first seven Councils and the fathers [desert and patristic] to inform our theology and spiritual and liturgical lives.

We have a different manner of fasting and feasting. We have a different tone to our internal squabbling and fussing, which I think is directly connect to what we tend to eat or not eat at any give time…😛

We differ in the way we interact with our clergy and our bishops and patriarchs.

What else?..I’m running out of general things that come easily to mind.

PS: Is this supposed to be a different topic thread?
 
Elijahmaria said:
How do eastern Catholics differ from our brothers and sisters in the Roman Church?

We differ liturgically both in the divine liturgy and in the holy hours. We differ in our liturgical music.

We differ in the calendar of saints and feasts.

We differ in the way Scripture is used in the liturgies.

We differ in terms of our paraliturgical rituals and in our private devotions.

We differ in terms of our root languages for the English translations. We, many of us, tend to be an engaging mix of both Slavic and Greek habits of language and mind.

We catechize differently. We tend to reach for an appropriate Orthodox text in teaching before we reach for one from the Roman rite.

We tend to look toward the first seven Councils and the fathers [desert and patristic] to inform our theology and spiritual and liturgical lives.

We have a different manner of fasting and feasting. We have a different tone to our internal squabbling and fussing, which I think is directly connect to what we tend to eat or not eat at any give time…😛

We differ in the way we interact with our clergy and our bishops and patriarchs.

What else?..I’m running out of general things that come easily to mind.

PS: Is this supposed to be a different topic thread?
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It originally was. Three originally distinct threads have been merged by the moderator into one.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I was told a story that a priest says that its not a good Divine Liturgy if there is no danger of burning the church down :D:D:D:D
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When I started serving, I was terrified of catching those huge sleeves in the stands of many candles inches away during the entrances . . .

Four years now, and no fires . . . Buti did catch an icon with one sleeves. As I kept it pinned to the wall with my shoulder while waiting for help,the icon in my other hand, Father murmured, “nice catch” . . .

and one ripped sticharion from the latch On the iconostasis door.

To offset this, I’ve recovered two thrown coals in the same time 😛
 
dochawk said:
When I started serving, I was terrified of catching those huge sleeves in the stands of many candles inches away during the entrances . . .

Four years now, and no fires . . . Buti did catch an icon with one sleeves. As I kept it pinned to the wall with my shoulder while waiting for help,the icon in my other hand, Father murmured, “nice catch” . . .

and one ripped sticharion from the latch On the iconostasis door.

To offset this, I’ve recovered two thrown coals in the same time 😛
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We’re very careful in using incense given that most of the people in the parish are older people. So I only put one pellet at a time whenever it is needed. But of course being one who handles the incense before I hand it over to bishop/priest/deacon, I get to breathe in all the smoke. One time I thought my lungs would burst 😛
 
dochawk said:
To offset this, I’ve recovered two thrown coals in the same time 😛
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Thrown coals are one thing that, in my Roman Rite Youth, I never had to worry about. Our censor was designed for closed use, and would only pass ashes, sparks, and smoke, not coals. And Archbishop Hurley definitely swung it with great vigor…
 
After the last coal, Father mentioned that he seems to lose one about once a year.

The prior one (so between the two I caught :)) landed squarely between an archbishp’s feet :eek:

hawk
 
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