Is Eucharistic Adoration idolatry?

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angainor,

If Jesus stood before you in the flesh…would you feel it is wrong to worship Him?

That is exactly what Catholics do!
 
I struggle with this same issue.

In John 6, immediately after Jesus tells the disciples that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood, this was the response:

John 6 (NASB95)
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard *this *said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62 “*What *then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
%between%%between%New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995. The Lockman Foundation: LaHabra, CA

We know that Jesus often made statements which His disciples misinterpreted. An example of this is when He tells them to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of Herod, and they think that He is chastising them for not bringing bread. Could it be possible that they have taken His words too literally here also, resulting in Him having to tell them (regarding the issue of drinking His blood and eating His flesh): “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life”?

Thanks for your help,
bajolyn
 
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bajolyn:
I struggle with this same issue.

In John 6, immediately after Jesus tells the disciples that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood, this was the response:

John 6 (NASB95)
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard *this *said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does thiscause you to stumble? 62 “*What *thenif you seethe Son of Manascending to where He was before? 63 “It is the Spirit who giveslife; the fleshprofitsnothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995. The Lockman Foundation: LaHabra, CA

We know that Jesus often made statements which His disciples misinterpreted. An example of this is when He tells them to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of Herod, and they think that He is chastising them for not bringing bread. Could it be possible that they have taken His words too literally here also, resulting in Him having to tell them (regarding the issue of drinking His blood and eating His flesh): “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life”?

Thanks for your help,
bajolyn
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Ok, I am by no means an expert, but I’ll give this a shot. The people who did not believe He really meant to eat his flesh were thinking too much in worldly terms. I mean, in our world, eating human flesh is insane. Plus, how does bread become flesh? They falied to realize all is possible for God. These words were spirit, meaning from God, which is why they were true. The flesh profits nothing, meaning that trying to imagine this in human terms will get you no where. You just have to have Faith in God and Jesus, that these words are life and true. I hope that makes sense and I know some other Catholic out there can do much better!
 
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Sherlock:
Catholics do know what the meaning of the word “is” is. “This IS My body” seems quite clear, and yes, in partaking of His body we are doing so in remembrance of (and participation in) His sacrifice. This is the understanding of Paul, and is also found in the writings of the early Christians.
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When Jesus spoke symbolically, he clearly indicated he was doing so. At various times he said the Kingdom of God is like a mustard seed, or like a banquet. He would muse to himself, saying “to what can the Kingdom of Heaven be compared?”

I see none of those meta-linguistic indicators here.

He was clearly attentive to the distinction between allegory and fact.

I like your observation: we know what “is” means.
 
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Angainor:
I still have an uneasy feeling about it. It seems to me the deflection of worship away from Christ is complete, if you feel the bread and wine is Jesus and you worship it.
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We don’t worship it. We adore Him.
 
bajolyn,

I feel you have skipped the critical part of the passage. Please read the reast of the chapter:

After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also wish to go away?" Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him.
Notice how most of the people no longer went with Jesus. They did that because Jesus’ teaching about eating His Body and drinking His Blood were difficult for them to accept…they chose to walk away from Jesus, rather than accept that they must eat His Body and drink His Blood. If Jesus was speaking symbolically, they would have had no reason to leave. Further, Jesus did not stop the people from leaving, He did not call out to them to say that He was merely speaking symbolically; rather, Jesus turned to the twelve and asked if they too would leave Him. None of that would have happened if Jesus was simply speaking metaphorically or symbolically…they knew that Jesus was speaking literally and all but the twelve left in disbelief.

As to your point about verse 63 (regarding the spirit and flesh); do not forget what Jesus said in verse 44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." We cannot come to Jesus unless the Father allows it. Simple human flesh and desire is not enough, we must have the aprpoval of the Father in order to have faith in Christ. The flesh is of no avail unless the Father has drawn us to His Son.
 
I heard of a countryman who would walk into the nearest church and sit quietly before the exposition of the Blessed Sacrament for hours.

The priest didn’t know who this guy was, so approached him one day to ask him what he was doing.

“I sits here and looks at God, and He sits there and looks at me.”

Now, how is that for theology?
 
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adnauseum:
When Jesus spoke symbolically, he clearly indicated he was doing so. At various times he said the Kingdom of God is like a mustard seed, or like a banquet. He would muse to himself, saying “to what can the Kingdom of Heaven be compared?”

I see none of those meta-linguistic indicators here.

He was clearly attentive to the distinction between allegory and fact.
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I agree that Jesus does often clarify when He is speaking figuratively, however there are also times when Jesus uses metaphor, and not just simile to make His point. For example, He says “I am the vine and you are the branches,” not “I am like a vine and you are like branches.” Also, in the Sermon on the Mount, He says that if our right hand causes us to sin, we should cut it off and cast it away from us. In these cases, He did not use a linguistic indicator to demonstrate that He was not speaking literally. I believe that all of us would agree that those passages are not to be interpreted in their strict, literal sense.

I’m still chewing on the responses you guys have provided me. Thanks to all of you who have taken the time and effort to help me out.

In Christ’s love,
bajolyn
 
I don’t get this question…how is it wrong to worship Jesus in the Eucharist?

What is wrong with Jesus being our idol?
 
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bajolyn:
I agree that Jesus does often clarify when He is speaking figuratively, however there are also times when Jesus uses metaphor, and not just simile to make His point. For example, He says “I am the vine and you are the branches,” not “I am like a vine and you are like branches.” Also, in the Sermon on the Mount, He says that if our right hand causes us to sin, we should cut it off and cast it away from us. In these cases, He did not use a linguistic indicator to demonstrate that He was not speaking literally. I believe that all of us would agree that those passages are not to be interpreted in their strict, literal sense.

I’m still chewing on the responses you guys have provided me. Thanks to all of you who have taken the time and effort to help me out.

In Christ’s love,
bajolyn
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The problem with translating it as a metaphore is that people actually left Jesus because of what he said. They clearly did not think he was speaking in a metaphor.
 
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flick427:
I don’t get this question…how is it wrong to worship Jesus in the Eucharist?

What is wrong with Jesus being our idol?
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If the goal is to worship Jesus, then it is my fear that by worshiping the Eucharist you are missing the mark, if only slightly.

I haven’t really decided if I think it is wrong to worship the Eucharist, but I can’t immediately think of any good that can come from it either. The only thing I think it can accomplish is to deflect our devotion from where it belongs, away from Jesus and to the meal itself, a meal I believe Jesus gave us as a devotinal aid, meant to point towards Jesus (do this in rembemberance of me).
 
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MariaG:
bajolyn,

Have you availed yourself of the Catholic Answers tracts?

This one might help.

catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp

Your sister in Christ,
Maria
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Thanks, Maria - that does indeed help. I will need to spend some time thinking about it. I have looked at some of the CA tracts before, but they don’t always address my particular objection. This one definitely did.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

In Christ’s love,
bajolyn
 
Againor,

You wrote: “If the goal is to worship Jesus, then it is my fear that by worshiping the Eucharist you are missing the mark, if only slightly.”

We are not missing the mark, not even slightly: the Eucharist IS Jesus.

As for the Eucharist being merely a “devotional aid”, I can only point you to the words of Paul in 1Corinthians 11:27-29. Paul says, “Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself”. That’s quite a “devotional aid”, if partaking of it unworthily brings damnation!

As for John 6 being only a metaphor: when Jesus speaks of Himself as the vine, no one mistakes Him—they know He is speaking metaphorically. No one gets up and leaves, saying, “This is a hard saying! How can this man be a plant?” But in John 6, Jesus repeats Himself, and there is no doubt that His listeners take Him at His word. They leave because He is NOT speaking metaphorically, and it is a hard saying. Notice that He does not explain His words to them, which is what He does when the disciples mistake His words about the Pharisees’ leaven. I would also suggest you read the Early Church Fathers.
 
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Angainor:
If the goal is to worship Jesus, then it is my fear that by worshiping the Eucharist you are missing the mark, if only slightly.

I haven’t really decided if I think it is wrong to worship the Eucharist, but I can’t immediately think of any good that can come from it either. The only thing I think it can accomplish is to deflect our devotion from where it belongs, away from Jesus and to the meal itself, a meal I believe Jesus gave us as a devotinal aid, meant to point towards Jesus (do this in rembemberance of me).
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You’re not listening to what people are saying here. The Eucharist IS Jesus. Our devotion as you put it, is towards Jesus who IS the Eucharist. And nothing could be more right or more good than worshiping Jesus who IS the Eucharist.

Mary Fran
 
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Angainor:
If the goal is to worship Jesus, then it is my fear that by worshiping the Eucharist you are missing the mark, if only slightly.

I haven’t really decided if I think it is wrong to worship the Eucharist, but I can’t immediately think of any good that can come from it either. The only thing I think it can accomplish is to deflect our devotion from where it belongs, away from Jesus and to the meal itself, a meal I believe Jesus gave us as a devotinal aid, meant to point towards Jesus (do this in rembemberance of me).
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If one accepts the non-Catholic concept that John 6 is “spiritual” and not literal then blow off the obvious statement of St. Paul in 1st Corinthians 11 and believe that it does not really mean that we can become guilty of the body and blood of the Lord by recieving it unworthily THEN perhaps one can believe that the Eucharist is not the Real Presence. I cannot…

Here is an entire thread that deals with this:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=40172
Pax vobiscum,
 
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violetandgandal:
You’re not listening to what people are saying here. The Eucharist IS Jesus. Our devotion as you put it, is towards Jesus who IS the Eucharist. And nothing could be more right or more good than worshiping Jesus who IS the Eucharist.

Mary Fran
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What do you mean, the Eucharist is Jesus. I don’t understand. Jesus is a divine person. The Eucharist is, at most, Jesus’ flesh and blood. I don’t understand how the two can be equal. My human person resides in my flesh and blood, but my flesh and blood are not “me”.
 
Againor,

You wrote: "What do you mean, the Eucharist is Jesus. I don’t understand. Jesus is a divine person. The Eucharist is, at most, Jesus’ flesh and blood. I don’t understand how the two can be equal. My human person resides in my flesh and blood, but my flesh and blood are not “me”.

The Eucharist IS Jesus—body, blood, soul, and divinity. It is a mystery, that is true. And comparing it to your body is not a valid comparison, because you are not God. Trying to understand this mystery by means of “flesh”–i.e., your human understanding— “is of no avail”—you will have to have faith in what Jesus says. And He says, “This is My body”. I know that this is a hard saying, but re-read some of the responses that you have been given. Also, I’ll ask again:if this is merely a “devotional aid”, then why does Paul say that receiving it unworthily, or failing to discern it as Jesus’s body, brings condemnation?
 
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jimmy:
The problem with translating it as a metaphore is that people actually left Jesus because of what he said. They clearly did not think he was speaking in a metaphor.
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bajolyn,

the preponderance of the evidence says that Jesus was speaking literally, not symbolically.
  1. Jesus didn’t indicate he was speaking metaphorically even though he frequently did so in the past.
  2. When asked with incredulity to repeat what he said, he semantically intensified the claim, from the Greek: unless you gnaw on my flesh.
  3. As Jimmy points out, nobody left him when he said you must cut off your hand if it steals, but many left in horror after this teaching, which suggests that something non-verbally in the situation indicated he meant what he said with in the literal sense.
If you were on a jury in a civil trial, you would vote: REAL PRESENCE. That is a reasonable judgment given the evidence.
 
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