Is Eucharistic Adoration idolatry?

[Jimmy_B]

JMJ

JOHN 6:48-58

48 I am the bread of life.

49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;

50 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.

51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”

53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."

 

[exoflare]

jimmy:

Jesus is God, so can’t he be in two places at once?

Exactly… there have been even saints that were given the ability to do this in their life. How could it (or anything for that matter) be beyond the grasp of God himself, then? I don’t get how these people have no trouble believing that God manifested himself in the form of a flesh and bone human being, but then they seem to have these very same doubts of Jesus being able to manifest himself completely in the Eucharist.

 

[exoflare]

(Joshua):

Here, have a read, the evil one is forced to speak up.
catholicism.org/pages/aubrey.htm

That one’s a classic… I never get tired of reading it!

 

[st_felicity]

It’s 3:00 EST. Join us in prayer for michaelp and all those who doubt the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

 

[exoflare]

Hey guys!

After reading some more of the posts on here, I was reminded of another little piece of scripture I often like to take to heart.

(Titus 3:10-11)
After a first and second warning, break off contact with a heretic, realizing that such a person is perverted and sinful and stands self-condemned.

 

[Church_Militant]

michaelp:

Hey all, I think that this has no where to go but into circles now. We have given each other enough to chew on (pardon again ).

Thanks for the great discussion on this thread. Lisa has given us a good place to stop. Please PM her. But just pray for the grace part, you don’t have to fill in the blanks!!

Michael

You know better than that My dear friend I’ll never let ya off that easy…
We love ya Michael, and we’re savin’ yer spot…no matter how long that takes.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[maendem]

Angainor:

My soul will leave and my body and blood will remain. That body and blood are no longer “me”. If you showed me someone’s body and blood alone, I would not say that was a person anymore. If you showed me Jesus’ body and blood, I would not say that was Jesus.

one. The body IS you, and the body is the form, the expression, of the soul. They are metaphysically inseparable. What happens at death is, for Aristotle, a traumatic rupture in the order of things, because the body and soul are meant to be together.

In building on Aristotle, St. Thomas does state that the soul can live on after death becasue it is immortal, but he says the soul is always incomplete without, and yearns for, the body. That is one of the reasons why the resurrection of the body at the end of time is necessary.

My point is that all of Catholic tradition, its understanding of the world, as well as most Catholics on this forum are coming from this metaphysics, this belief in the union of body and soul. That is one of the reasons why, in addition to Christ’s own words and the unanimous and consistent Tradition of the Eucharist in the Church, we can believe that the consecrated bread and wine at Mass become Jesus’ flesh and blood, and thus Jesus Himself. It is a “given” for us that someone’s body IS them.

I don’t mean to give a philosphy lecture, and you will of course have to discern for yourself which philosophy is closer to the truth, the way things really are. But as you can see in your own posts, your philosophical beliefs have tremendously powerful “fallout” into every other realm of your life. I might be wrong, but I don’t think your argument is so much with Church teaching as with its philosophical groundings. Perhaps that would be a better place to start an inquiry.

Best wishes!

 

[maendem]

Just realized I mis-spelled your name twice. Sorry!!

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

We love you Michael and are looking foward to you understanding and recognising the Eucharist God Bless

 

[_Joshua]

exoflare:

That one’s a classic… I never get tired of reading it!

Thanks exoflare, it says it all really ! before the forum crashed, someone said it was gross to eat & drink the body of Christ.
Is it any less gross to receive a blood transfusion ?

 

[Lost_Found]

Hi Angainor,

I know you said “enough, enough”, but we just can’t help ourselves…We can barely handle it ourselves!

Did the Jews take Jesus literally in chapter 6??

(hint – his followers dwindle from 5000 fans to 12)

Does John or his followers understand Jesus’ words at the time?

(hint- John’s Gospel was written 90-98 AD. 60 years to discern how to express the Eucharist)

How do we communicate with someone else’s soul?

(hint – we use the BODY in some way or other)

Is Jesus a giver or a taker?

(hint – You know He gives Himself TOTALLY, HIS WHOLE BEING –BODY – SPIRIT - WORD…) (Calvary=Eucharist)

Are we givers or takers?

(hint – Jesus offers us to RECEIVE Him and to give Him to others. The only problem is our own openess - our willingness to receive Him TOTALLY)

What does v56 mean?

He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood LIVES IN ME and I LIVE IN HIM. Various bible translations – replace LIVES with DWELLS IN/REMAINS IN/ABIDES IN…

FROM JESUS IT’S TOTAL - Can we handle that?

 

[exoflare]

Angainor:

Yes, I see your point. We all also have the resurrection to look to when our body and soul will be reunited.

However, before that happens, I will die someday. My soul will leave and my body and blood will remain. That body and blood are no longer “me”. If you showed me someone’s body and blood alone, I would not say that was a person anymore. If you showed me Jesus’ body and blood, I would not say that was Jesus.

Jesus came back to life… he hasn’t died since. At least, not to my knowledge…? lol

 

[hlgomez]

However, before that happens, I will die someday. My soul will leave and my body and blood will remain. That body and blood are no longer “me”. If you showed me someone’s body and blood alone, I would not say that was a person anymore. If you showed me Jesus’ body and blood, I would not say that was Jesus.

Angainor,

We don’t say it’s only Body and Blood, but Body, Blood, Soul and DIvinity of Jesus Christ in the Sacred Eucharist.

However, we are not speaking here of dualism. That’s a belief somehow originated from Nestorius in some way. But we are speaking of one person, that is, Christ. Christ is one because the Lord is one.

Let’s go back to the Eucharist. Again, this mystery cannot be fathomed by a finite mind of ours. How can we fathom that who is unfathomable? I’m speaking here of God and His works. It’s a mystery beyond our comprehension, or else, if we say that we fully understand/fathom the mystery, then we would be God himself. Christ said, “No one knows the Father except the Son, and no one knows the Son except the Father and to whom he chooses to reveal Him.” The Blessed Trinity alone comprehends one another. Nobody else can.

When Christ came down from heaven and born of the Virgin, the apostles believed Him to be Son of God (in other words God who became man). They believe him, but others didn’t. The usual argument for them who didn’t believe (especially the Jews) was how can this man be God when yet he is only a human, a son of a carpenter? God is not subject to time, is not seen for He is Spirit, yet is now seen and is subject to time? How can that be? Well, this is the mystery beyond our comprehension. God chooses to reveal himself by becoming like us in the most humble way ever, born in a manger, a man like us except that he didn’t sin. Now yet again, after being resurrected and glorified, he chooses to be present to us in a humble way. Continuing His work of mercy and salvation and communion, in that humble appearances of Bread and Wine, turned into His very Body and Blood. This is a mystery no one can fathom, but could only be understand thru faith.

Pio

 

[SPH1]

Angainor:

I know Catholics believe Jesus is really present in the Eucharist.

However, I believe the Lord’s Supper is meant to point to Jesus (do this in rememberance of me). As such, it is my fear that to worship the meal itself represents a subtle distraction from what is really important. It seems to me a deflection of worship away from Jesus, ever-so-slightly, in a way that I think would make Satan very happy. If he cannot break a thing he can try to bend it.

Christ’s words, “This is my Body…this is the cup of my blood” are an absolute defense and protection against Eucharistic Adoration from being idolatry.

Christ is more than “pointing.” At the least, He wants us to act AS IF the consecrated bread and wine were his body and blood.