Is Evangelical anti-Catholicism orchestrated?

[DWPC]

I’d suggest meme theory rather than orchestration. Memes, like “4 legs good, 2 legs bad” from Animal Farm are self-sustaining small bits of “knowledge” that are easily assimilated and passed on by people. “The Pope is the Antichrist” would be an example of an anti-Catholic meme that many have tossed around for years without giving the matter any significant thought.

Just as people throw various bits of stuff into their luggage before vacation “in case they might need them” memes become part of their intellectual “baggage” and can be easily referenced when needed (i.e. an Evangelical who normally doesn’t interact with Catholics is suddenly in contact with Catholic beliefs, and defaults to anti-Catholic memes acquired over the years)

Thats why so many of the same objections are heard from so many different people-they’re memorable enough to have “stuck” in the same way that the Catholic meme of the 3 conditions for mortal sin have “stuck” with many Catholics who have forgotten much of the childhood catechesis.

For more info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

I agree with your assessment of the content of attacks by evangelicals, but my concern is really about the in-your-face brazenness and hostility toward Catholicism that I’m seeing more of. I think Church leaders pretend its not there, and leaving Catholics generally unprepared for dealing with openly hostile fundamentalists, let alone responding to the distortions and outright lies about our faith being spoon fed by zealot preachers to their followers.

 

[NonCatholic]

I come from a Southern-Baptist church, very small and have attended/visited other Baptist churches in the past 4 years. I have never heard of any Catholic bashing, but the view is that Catholics are a mission field, which Catholics do take offense to. At the same time, Catholics view these others as a mission field as well. So it is probably a wash.

On a personal comment: Anyone who calls themselves a Christian and finds joy in putting, what they perceive, as the “unregenerate”…quickly forgets that they to were shown love and mercy from God and needs to examine themselves.

 

[puppypatrol]

I agree with your assessment of the content of attacks by evangelicals, but my concern is really about the in-your-face brazenness and hostility toward Catholicism that I’m seeing more of. I think Church leaders pretend its not there, and leaving Catholics generally unprepared for dealing with openly hostile fundamentalists, let alone responding to the distortions and outright lies about our faith being spoon fed by zealot preachers to their followers.

I have heard it said that Anti-Catholicism is the last politically correct prejudice and I believe it is true. True because no one seems to care and because Catholics (for the most part) are so easy because they don’t “fight” back. Many don’t know how to defend themselves, others don’t want to deal with the confrontation they are afraid they will be faced with.

I come from a Southern-Baptist church, very small and have attended/visited other Baptist churches in the past 4 years. I have never heard of any Catholic bashing, but the view is that Catholics are a mission field, which Catholics do take offense to. At the same time, Catholics view these others as a mission field as well. So it is probably a wash.

On a personal comment: Anyone who calls themselves a Christian and finds joy in putting, what they perceive, as the “unregenerate”…quickly forgets that they to were shown love and mercy from God and needs to examine themselves.

Thanks you for your comment. Southern Baptists aren’t notorious for Catholic bashing. It is a predominately Pentecostal/Evangelical/Fundamentalist problem, so to speak. And it isn’t that they look at Catholics as a “mission field”, they have been conditioned to look at Catholics as non-Christian, Pagan, Papists, brainwashed by the Vatican, etc… and, heaven help you if you should point out where they are mistaken. All we are asking is for the same respect and consideration that they expect in return.

 

[fbl9]

On a personal comment: Anyone who calls themselves a Christian and finds joy in putting, what they perceive, as the “unregenerate”…quickly forgets that they to were shown love and mercy from God and needs to examine themselves.

well said!
it is this “condemning” attitude that drives a serious wedge in any discussions.

 

[miguel]

I’ve often discussed religion in a friendly manner with non-Catholic friends and acquaintances but, until recently, was never overtly attacked and condemned for being Catholic as I now have been several times by evangelicals, including ex-Catholics. Most were in the past year. Our wonderful Christmas was shattered by an in-law’s relative’s verbal assault when she learned we were Catholic.

Its happened before in social settings, in non-religious net forums, and even with in-law relations. These weren’t just disagreement on points of faith, but truly in-your-face distasteful insults; e.g. Catholics are “tainted”, “carnal”, “pagan”, “Nazis” to quote a few.

I’m past 60 and have lived in the Midwest, the South, and now the West Coast; where this is a new and disturbing phenomenon seems to be on the rise and I can’t help but feel its orchestrated among otherwise unaffiliated non-denominational churches. Are others experiencing this? Why now? Is there an agenda beyond proselytizing? I had hoped we were past this sort of ugliness.

I don’t know how long you’ve lived in SoCal, but some of the local talk radio people (KFI in particular) were very hostile to Cardinal Mahoney (I was angry myself) in the wake of the clergy sex abuse scandal, and the green light was given to venting bigotry and alot of it IMO. The rise in anti-Catholicism that you are experiencing could be attributed to that also.

 

[MariaG]

I come from a Southern-Baptist church, very small and have attended/visited other Baptist churches in the past 4 years. I have never heard of any Catholic bashing, but the view is that Catholics are a mission field, which Catholics do take offense to. At the same time, Catholics view these others as a mission field as well. So it is probably a wash.

On a personal comment: Anyone who calls themselves a Christian and finds joy in putting, what they perceive, as the “unregenerate”…quickly forgets that they to were shown love and mercy from God and needs to examine themselves.

While individual Catholics may see non-Catholics as a mission field, the Catholic Church considers them separated brethren.

Here is a link to the Catechism, #818 under wounds to unity.

18 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

We certainly hope and pray that the Church will one day be truly One, but that is a far cry from thinking non-Catholics are not even Christian as many fundamentalists think.

A wash? Not hardly. You probably don’t realize or you wouldn’t have said that, but those of us who have come from fundamental backgrounds and now have friends who won’t pray with us anymore because we belong the the whore of Babylon etc, the hurt is so great. I have to imagine that it is only a fraction of the pain Christ must feel, but the pain is immense to know that they don’t consider you a Christian anymore.

 

[Zooey]

But I have noticed just in the past year a lot of my friends shifting to a more legalistic approach, and away from any man made traditions as they say… And there is a trend to reject Christmas. Vocally they have been the most anti-Catholic. So anti that I would be afraid to even repeat some of their comments for fear of lightening striking me…
… I am noticing an anti-Christianity movement period, no matter the denomination. Unless your belief allows for accepting all equally.
.

:sad_yes: Yup, I agree…:sad_yes:
At Christmas dinner this year, one of my cousins was telling me that her sister (obviously another cousin) & her husband have joined this church where…Their daughter was married recently, & the church held a meeting to:bigyikes: vote on whether or not her then fiance was welcome to marry into their church. If she had married an unapproved man, the whole family would have been :bigyikes: thrown out of the church…
And yes, they have given up Christmas. That I knew about; at a family reunion a couple of years ago, the husband:sad_yes: refused to say grace over the meal…because there were 3 of us cousins present who he believes are that we are “pagans”… I personally believe that** he** is, well…a couple of french fries short of a happy meal…
I would appreciate you all’s prayers for Chris & her kids…I can’t even imagine putting up with this 3-day-old carp, but she is very sweet & shy, & they were very happy for years until he discovered this :takeoff: preacher & his crew… (I mean they started out as Southern Baptists…that wasn’t enough for him)…

 

[Non_Serviam]

Look, being completely correct and thoughtful is not going to get you anywhere around here, bud!

Thanks, not everyone is quite a charitable as you when it comes to my posts.

I agree with your assessment of the content of attacks by evangelicals, but my concern is really about the in-your-face brazenness and hostility toward Catholicism that I’m seeing more of. I think Church leaders pretend its not there, and leaving Catholics generally unprepared for dealing with openly hostile fundamentalists, let alone responding to the distortions and outright lies about our faith being spoon fed by zealot preachers to their followers.

I agree it is unfortunate. It is the same thing happens whenever folks are convinced they have “the Truth” and that someone else’s beliefs are dangerous. I known people of the Jewish faith who were very hostile to people of another faith because they felt some of their family might be led astray and I had a very recent encounter with a Muslim friend whose son-in-law was furious that I wasn’t treated like the deceiver he thought I was.

Even a few Catholics have posted similar sentiments on this forum advocating less than polite dealings with people of other beliefs who have interaction with Catholic friends or family.

It seems to be difficult for people to find a balance between taking what they perceive to be a threat seriously (since they usually believe that one could fall out of God’s favour by not opposing the other’s belief) and responding in a loving fashion.

For me, the proper response is 1) to call people on their behaviour-tell them it’s rude and that you don’t accept that sort of treatment and 2) give them an example as a real ambassador of your faith that they’ll have to contrast with their stereotype/meme.

Hope that helps-being the target of “holy wrath” is never fun-believe me I know.

 

[dianaiad]

I have heard it said that Anti-Catholicism is the last politically correct prejudice and I believe it is true. True because no one seems to care and because Catholics (for the most part) are so easy because they don’t “fight” back. Many don’t know how to defend themselves, others don’t want to deal with the confrontation they are afraid they will be faced with.

Actually, that’s not quite true. After all, we DID have a Catholic President, and now being Catholic and running for President is a ho-hum.

Just try being a Mormon and running for President, though.

Come to think of it, I personally would say that the ‘last legal prejudice,’ isn’t against either Catholicism or Mormonism.

It’s against fat people.

Thanks you for your comment. Southern Baptists aren’t notorious for Catholic bashing. It is a predominately Pentecostal/Evangelical/Fundamentalist problem, so to speak. And it isn’t that they look at Catholics as a “mission field”, they have been conditioned to look at Catholics as non-Christian, Pagan, Papists, brainwashed by the Vatican, etc… and, heaven help you if you should point out where they are mistaken. All we are asking is for the same respect and consideration that they expect in return.

Oh, well, ho hum again. Welcome to the world I have lived in for 60 years.

I even have, as a souvenir, a pamphlet that I found under my windshield at a funeral. It reads, on fuzzy paper with vivid red, oversized titles, “THE DECEASED IS IN HELL AND YOU WILL SOON FOLLOW IF YOU DON’T LEAVE THE DEVIL MORMON CHURCH!!” followed by every cliched, stupid anti-Mormon charge in the book.

Those of us who found these laughed ourselves silly…and for a minute I wondered if my husband had arranged the whole thing for the laugh; it was like him. However, though I know darned well he appreciated it, I also know he wasn’t behind it: he was the ‘guest of honor’ at that particular funeral.

I am bemused here, though…here y’all are complaining because evangelicals and Protestants of other flavors are persecuting you and claiming that you are ‘not Christian.’

if it weren’t so tragically ironic, I’d be laughing pretty hard right now.

 

[puppypatrol]

Actually, that’s not quite true. After all, we DID have a Catholic President, and now being Catholic and running for President is a ho-hum.
Just try being a Mormon and running for President, though.
Come to think of it, I personally would say that the ‘last legal prejudice,’ isn’t against either Catholicism or Mormonism.
It’s against fat people.
Oh, well, ho hum again. Welcome to the world I have lived in for 60 years.
I even have, as a souvenir, a pamphlet that I found under my windshield at a funeral. It reads, on fuzzy paper with vivid red, oversized titles, “THE DECEASED IS IN HELL AND YOU WILL SOON FOLLOW IF YOU DON’T LEAVE THE DEVIL MORMON CHURCH!!” followed by every cliched, stupid anti-Mormon charge in the book.
Those of us who found these laughed ourselves silly…and for a minute I wondered if my husband had arranged the whole thing for the laugh; it was like him. However, though I know darned well he appreciated it, I also know he wasn’t behind it: he was the ‘guest of honor’ at that particular funeral.
I am bemused here, though…here y’all are complaining because evangelicals and Protestants of other flavors are persecuting you and claiming that you are ‘not Christian.’
if it weren’t so tragically ironic, I’d be laughing pretty hard right now.

An when was the last time you were physically accosted or your property violated?

I am truly sorry you have had such a challenging life being Morman. We as Catholics can understand just how you feel and I, being Irish Catholic understand even better.

We aren’t complaining about all Protestants or all non-Christians, just the few who are truly Anti-Catholic, biased and potentially dangerous. I’ve been there done that and I have seen it from both sides.

 

[dianaiad]

An when was the last time you were physically accosted or your property violated?

Two months ago. I was given a VERY hard shove by one of the anti-prop 8 demonstrators as I was visiting the Temple visitor’s center in Los Angeles. This woman also stuffed a rather offensive anti-Mormon pamphlet in my tote bag.

Do I really need to list the sort of thing that has happened to me, personally, over the years?

I think I mentioned that I’ve been shot at, but since they missed, I don’t suppose that counts as actual 'damage…"

True, these are penny ante things. They are not, however, conducive to getting us to change our minds and go join people who would pull them, are they?

I am truly sorry you have had such a challenging life being Morman. We as Catholics can understand just how you feel and I, being Irish Catholic understand even better.

We aren’t complaining about all Protestants or all non-Christians, just the few who are truly Anti-Catholic, biased and potentially dangerous. I’ve been there done that and I have seen it from both sides.

(grin) do I detect a little sarcasm?

Neither am I complaining about all of them. “Anti” to me has a very specific meaning; I’ve had to do that in order to separate the people who simply do not agree with me or believe as I do, and who have honest questions and objections, from those who actively seek to destroy or harm, and use underhanded, dishonest and physically dangerous means to accomplish their purposes.

And frankly, THEY don’t give a hoot who they target. Everybody who isn’t ‘them’ is fair game.

 

[puppypatrol]

…

True, these are penny ante things. They are not, however, conducive to getting us to change our minds and go join people who would pull them, are they?

(grin) do I detect a little sarcasm?

Neither am I complaining about all of them. “Anti” to me has a very specific meaning; I’ve had to do that in order to separate the people who simply do not agree with me or believe as I do, and who have honest questions and objections, from those who actively seek to destroy or harm, and use underhanded, dishonest and physically dangerous means to accomplish their purposes.

And frankly, THEY don’t give a hoot who they target. Everybody who isn’t ‘them’ is fair game.

This I agree with 100%. No, we aren’t changing our minds but look at the thousands, if not millions, of gullible minds they have corrupted.

No sarcasm was intended. Acts of Anti-anything just makes me angry and feel the right this to do is tell them they are wrong. I don’t care who the persecuted person is, what their race, what their faith, etc… prejudice in any form is wrong. I am more than happy to discuss a difference in beliefs or customs but I cannot understand why (I know it’s human nature) some people have to make themselves feel better about themselves by destroying someone else.

 

[dianaiad]

This I agree with 100%. No, we aren’t changing our minds but look at the thousands, if not millions, of gullible minds they have corrupted.

No sarcasm was intended. Acts of Anti-anything just makes me angry and feel the right this to do is tell them they are wrong. I don’t care who the persecuted person is, what their race, what their faith, etc… prejudice in any form is wrong. I am more than happy to discuss a difference in beliefs or customs but I cannot understand why (I know it’s human nature) some people have to make themselves feel better about themselves by destroying someone else.

That’s all they accomplish in the long run anyway–making themselves look better to themselves. Anti (insert belief system here) folks turn more people AWAY from their version of ‘truth’ than they ever convert.

I wonder why they haven’t figured that out yet?

Me, for instance…I worked for a week refurbishing a theater along with a young preacher who felt ‘called’ to preach to the degenerate Mormons in a little town in northern Utah…so 'northern Utah," in fact, that it was literally within an afternoon walk of the Idaho border. Because of what we were doing, I was a captive audience.

Trust me on this one, ain’t NO way I’d join his group. It would take God Himself to visit me in person to tell me that this guy was right. Since he was rather certain that nobody would ever get that sort of revelation, I think I’m fairly safe.

He never did answer the one question I was able to get in edgewise…that is, if there wasn’t any sort of revelation, and no prophets, where did he think he got the ‘call’ from to come to preach to the benighted Mormons of Cache Valley?

Sometimes life is just too much fun…

 

[ronl]

Diddo on the previous comment. Today it seems like we have only a few dozen translations of the Bible and virtually a limitless set of editions since everyone seems to have their own interpretation of the Bible which are all claimed as Truth. The anti-Catholic sentiment that I was exposed to led me to the conclusion that the Catholic position on Biblical interpretation must be truth, since I could find nowhere in the Bible where anamosity, anger, and hatred were fruits of the spirit.

Ron

 

[dianaiad]

Diddo on the previous comment. Today it seems like we have only a few dozen translations of the Bible and virtually a limitless set of editions since everyone seems to have their own interpretation of the Bible which are all claimed as Truth. The anti-Catholic sentiment that I was exposed to led me to the conclusion that the Catholic position on Biblical interpretation must be truth, since I could find nowhere in the Bible where anamosity, anger, and hatred were fruits of the spirit.

Ron

Well, one needs to be careful of this, since there is nothing that says a position that people hate must, therefore, be the true one.

However, if some virulent hatred of a position makes your curiousity bump itch enough to find out from the ‘horse’s mouth,’ what all the animosity is about–and THEN you find out you like it/it rings true/hello, this is good stuff!, then, well…

Why don’t the antis of the world figure that out?

 

[ted_ray]

It has been my opinion for a long time that protestants suffer from papal envy, but don’t realize it.

 

[ladybon]

Hello fellow “Thou Are Peter and Upon This Rock I Will Build My Church” followers (just couldn’t resist that, since I was in Rome in 3/08 and also still in awe of all the awesome Catholicism reminders):

This thread caught my eye because I believe I am a victim of anti-Catholicism by an Evangelical, who, sadly, happens to be my son-in-law. Evangelicalism is only partially the cause of his dislike of me and my entire family. He has other issues as well, such as insecurity and abandonment issues.

This guy turned Catholic before he married my daughter, they were married in a Catholic Church, then, just a few months after the marriage, he told me that they had joined an Evangelical church because he felt the Catholic Church just wasn’t right for them. This guy is very deeply into his church, attends several times a week, belongs to various church groups, etc. Yet, he doesnt’ even meet the most basic criterion of Christianity: Love they neighbor as you would love theyself; do unto others as you would have them do unto you; judge not lest ye be judged, etc.,etc., etc.

He and my daughter have been married for 25 years, have 3 grown children, but I was told by my son-in-law about 10 years ago that, unless I accept his disrespect toward me and my family, along with several other things that my family had been enduring because of him, I would no longer be able to see his children!! My heart was broken completely because I had a close relationship with all 3 of these grandchildren. In fact, my daughter had told me that, out of the 4 grandparents they had, I was the best one because I spent time with them, had them on weekends, did things with them, etc. Bottom line, my daughter chose to allow her husband to make this decision and stood behind him. Shamefully, I’m not the only victim here, their 3 children are also victims because they don’t even know their mother’s side of the family, a very loving and close family. I am 1 of 5 siblings, we all have children, some of them the same ages as my grandchildren. I also have grandchildren their age. I’ve tried to make this short, and, if you knew the entire sad story, you would consider this to be the short version.

Oh, and did I forget to mention that their pastor records all his sermons. When my father passed away 12 years ago, I read a book that gave me much solace, so I gave copies to my siblings and my children in the hope they would also get comfort from it. Instead, my daughter handed me a tape of a recent sermon from her church, blasting the Mormon religion. I was told that the book was a fake, that it was written by a Mormon, and there was some sort of clandestine reason for this woman to write the book!! She wanted me to listen to the taped sermon. Since I was curious, I did just that, and it was out-and-out prejudice against an entire group of people. I have to wonder if every religion has felt this pastor’s wrath in his “sermons”. As God said, “…devils will walk amongst us”. I went through 12 years of Catholic education, with religion class as a requirement, and I have NEVER, either in class or from the pulpit, heard a Catholic priest, missionary, deacon, nun, NO ONE, EVER criticize another religion. I’m proud to be a Catholic. I’ve been blessed 4 times to be at the actual grave of St. Peter, and hope to have the opportunity again to be in that holy place. God bless you all…

 

[dianaiad]

Oh, and did I forget to mention that their pastor records all his sermons. When my father passed away 12 years ago, I read a book that gave me much solace, so I gave copies to my siblings and my children in the hope they would also get comfort from it. Instead, my daughter handed me a tape of a recent sermon from her church, blasting the Mormon religion. I was told that the book was a fake, that it was written by a Mormon, and there was some sort of clandestine reason for this woman to write the book!!

I am sorry for your situation; I wish that this sort of thing wouldn’t happen…but it does.

Family is so important; our connections to each other so vital, that allowing religious beliefs to destroy those connections is one of the worst things people do to each other. So…I’m sorry.

May I ask what the book was?

 

[mattm09]

Maybe they are jealous that we have direct apostolic succession.

“Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ibi ecclesia vita eterna.”

 

[GUPPIE]

I find a very big subject with Evangelical’s is the the “deeds” issue. I hear it in Joel Osteen’s talks on t.v. and I have heard it in my friend’s church. They just mention little things like You don’t need deeds, all you need is the belief in Jesus Christ. When I first started working with this girl at work, right away, she was defensive with me (she was Evangelical), yet, she kidded around with my gay co-worker though she does not support his lifestyle. She was judging me because I was Catholic! To make a long story short, I basically had to prove myself to her that I was not a bad person. Day after day went by and after going to her church’s Christmas programs and having some common ground discussions, we now get along great. I think we as Catholics have to respect other Christians in order for them to respect us.