Is everyone initially born a child of God? Before the age of reason, does a child after death go to heaven?

[twb1621]

Knowing our salvation is secured in faith and baptism, are we all children of God before we are of the age of reason and before baptism? Are children including infants “righteous” as required according to Christian understanding to enter heaven? Please offer support for your views.

 

[Seeking12]

Knowing our salvation is secured in faith and baptism, are we all children of God before we are of the age of reason and before baptism? Are children including infants “righteous” as required according to Christian understanding to enter heaven? Please offer support for your views.

**What happens to infants that die and were not Baptized? Heaven, hell or some type of limbo? **

 

[guanophore]

**What happens to infants that die and were not Baptized? Heaven, hell or some type of limbo? **

Knowing that He desires the death of no one, we entrust their souls to a faithful creator.

 

[palmas85]

**What happens to infants that die and were not Baptized? Heaven, hell or some type of limbo? **

We do not know what happens to them. We can only hope that whatever God does with them it is merciful and beneficial to them. The Church does not have a definite answer for it despite what some of the more extreme progressives and the more extreme traditionals would say on the matter

 

[Seeking12]

We do not know what happens to them. We can only hope that whatever God does with them it is merciful and beneficial to them. The Church does not have a definite answer for it despite what some of the more extreme progressives and the more extreme traditionals would say on the matter

**
What makes any person go to hell?

I found this interesting article on Limbo.
hamptonroads.com/node/164211

then I found this
catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0710fea4.asp

Looks like the Church cannot take a position because it will have to include heaven for an unbaptized, which would be problematic for the infant baptism; to teach they go to hell would be alienate many people.

I have no doubt that all babies or children that dies before the age of accountability are under God’s grace; which is why it is all by grace. I think of Davids son, the infant, that David knew he would see again. How did he know that?

The Bible teaches that we are to be judged on the basis of our deeds committed "in the body;not on the basis of original sin. Each will answer “according to what he has done,” and not for the sin of Adam. The imputation of Adam’s sin and guilt explains our inability to respond to God without regeneration, but the Bible does not teach that we will answer for Adam’s sin. But what about infants? Have those who die in infancy committed such sins in the body? I believe not.

One biblical text is particularly helpful at this point. After the children of Israel rebelled against God in the wilderness, God sentenced that generation to die in the wilderness after forty years of wandering. "Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers."But this was not all. God specifically exempted young children and infants from this sentence, and even explained why He did so: “Moreover, your little ones who you said would become prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good and evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it.” The key issue here is that God specifically exempted from the judgment those who “have no knowledge of good or evil” because of their age. These “little ones” would inherit the Promised Land, and would not be judged on the basis of their fathers’ sins.**

 

[Crimson_Seraph]

Consider this, from the Apostle Paul.

“I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;” - Romans 7:9 NASB

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I have no doubt that all babies or children that dies before the age of accountability are under God’s grace

Can you tell me, using the Bible, what the age of accountability is? Is it 7? 6? 42?

I can’t seem to find it…

God bless

 

[Seeking12]

Can you tell me, using the Bible, what the age of accountability is? Is it 7? 6? 42?

I can’t seem to find it…

God bless

Why would you care what the Bible says? Would you show me where Catholic Church is? I can’t seem to find it…

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Why would you care what the Bible says? Would you show me where Catholic Church is?

So I guess the answer is; no you cannot.

God bless

 

[Seeking12]

So I guess the answer is; no you cannot.

The difference is that I could show you a Catholic church while you will never be able to tell me, using the Bible, at what age a child reaches the age of accountability.

Thanks

God bless

**Good luck on showing the Church from Scripture; but to answer the question. What is the Scriptural basis for an “age of accountability” regarding a child’s salvation?

I think the best way to answer that is to say this: There is no “age of accountability” identified in Scripture, as such. There is nothing in the Bible that says, “Here is the age and from here on you are responsible.” I think the reason for that is because children mature at different paces. That would be true from culture to culture, and from age to age in history.

So the Lord in His wisdom didn’t identify a specific moment. God knows when each soul is accountable. God knows when real rejection has taken place; when the love of sin exists in the heart. When enmity with God is conscious and willful. God alone knows when that occurs.

The Jews had identified about the age of twelve, and that was when Jesus was taken by His parents to Jerusalem for the Passover and the Feast, and there He was in the temple questioning the doctors. You have a good illustration there, and Jesus was asking profound questions at that point. This then seems to be the age when those kinds of questions begin to be personal in the heart of a child.

So I have always felt that somewhere around age twelve, the transition from childhood to adulthood takes place. It’s probably not totally disassociated from puberty, where there is a consciousness of one’s own impulses, feelings, drives, desires, and therefore sinful attitudes and passions, and whatever else starts to emerge.

With this in mind, I believe that it is absolutely essential, all along the way with children, that every time they desire to make a commitment to Jesus Christ, at whatever age, you (as someone giving spiritual oversight to them) encourage them to do that. Because you don’t know, we can’t know, when their desire is indicative of genuine saving faith. When a young child says, “I want to invite Christ into my life,” then you need to encourage them to do that. Every one of those, I see as a step towards God. At what point that becomes saving faith – only God knows for certain. **

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Good luck on showing the Church from Scripture; but to answer the question. What is the Scriptural basis for an “age of accountability” regarding a child’s salvation?

I edited my post as I found my original to be uncharitable.

I think the best way to answer that is to say this: There is no “age of accountability” identified in Scripture, as such. There is nothing in the Bible that says, “Here is the age and from here on you are responsible.” I think the reason for that is because children mature at different paces. That would be true from culture to culture, and from age to age in history.

 

[guanophore]

What makes any person go to hell?

We are all under the condemnation of original sin. If we do not believe, we are condemned already.

Looks like the Church cannot take a position because it will have to include heaven for an unbaptized, which would be problematic for the infant baptism; to teach they go to hell would be alienate many people.

No, Seeking. The Church can only take a position on those Truths that have been revealed to her by God, and this is not one of them. The church teaches that we are all under the condemnation of original sin.

The Church teaches that heaven IS included for an unbaptized person.

It is a ridiculous assertion that the “church cannot teach they go to hell because it would alienate people”. It should be quite clear to you by now that the Church has not changed her teachings in 2000 years, and that we have alienated most people because of it.


The people who are alienated by the Teaching of Jesus are those that perceive Catholic teaching as the “odor of death”.

The Bible teaches that we are to be judged on the basis of our deeds committed "in the body;not on the basis of original sin. Each will answer “according to what he has done,” and not for the sin of Adam. The imputation of Adam’s sin and guilt explains our inability to respond to God without regeneration, but the Bible does not teach that we will answer for Adam’s sin. But what about infants? Have those who die in infancy committed such sins in the body? I believe not.

As it turns out, you have a number of beliefs that are contrary to the Apostolic teaching. Part of that teaching is that humankind has inherited the consequence of Adam’s sin. We are condemned to death by default.

 The key issue here is that God specifically exempted from the judgment those who "have no knowledge of good or evil" because of their age. These "little ones" would inherit the Promised Land, and would not be judged on the basis of their fathers’ sins.

This is the judgement upon a nation, under a covenant relationship with God.

Without God, we are dead in our trespasses and sins. Jesus is clear that those who do not believe are condemned already.

 

[guanophore]

Why would you care what the Bible says? Would you show me where Catholic Church is? I can’t seem to find it…

We care what the Bible says because it was produced by the Catholic Church.

“You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the Apostles. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, A.D. 110, [8,1])

Let your search be ended!

 

[guanophore]

What is the Scriptural basis for an “age of accountability” regarding a child’s salvation?

I think the best way to answer that is to say this: There is no “age of accountability” identified in Scripture, as such.

So, should we just make it up?

**I think **the reason for that is because …

So the Lord in His wisdom didn’t identify a specific moment.
Seeking12;4842447:

… This then seems to be the . …

**So I have always felt that **

It’s probably …

With this in mind, **I believe **that i

… Because you don’t know, we can’t know,…

… only God knows for certain.

 

[ready]

To answer the questions found in the heading:

We are initially born a child of God at baptism. That is when we are adopted as children of God.

I think they go to heaven, but God is the authority on the matter, not me.

 

[Seeking12]

I edited my post as I found my original to be uncharitable.

So in reality if a child dies between the ages of 3-12 years of age (maybe younger or older depending on the development of the child) a parent really has no idea if their child had reached the age of accountability, and since they cannot be sure if their child had reached that age (since only God knows) they also cannot be sure if God saved them. Sounds a lot like the Catholic stance (for children not baptized), other than the first 2 or 3 years of the child.

Also do you believe that all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God? Romans 3:23 Yes

If you do, what are the wages of sin? Romans 6:23
Death
God bless

**The Catholic view is irrelevant because infant baptism or any water baptism does not remove sin; that is biblical. Since there isn’t any limbo that puts a silence on the issue for reason noted earlier. What is not known and is relevant is the actual age of accountability or age of reason as some refer. Romans 1 tells us that all of us have the knowledge of God as evident through His creation built into us so that none are without excuse and what we do with that knowledge will be what one is judged; so until a child can even comprehend God, much less reject Him they are safe. I have a 4 and 8 year old. My 8 year hold has some knowledge of God and what he has been exposed to he has accepted, but he is too young to fully understand and reject. I believe part of this is just applying what we know about God and using some common sense. Something else that comes to mind is that whenever we get a glimpse of hell in the Bible; there is never any mention of children.

The good news is that whether Catholic, Baptist, Methodist or even atheist, if it is a child and they die the parents should know they are safe in the arms of God.**

 

[Alex_D]

**What happens to infants that die and were not Baptized? Heaven, hell or some type of limbo? **

Baby’s that were not baptised will become angel in heaven. Limbo is incorrect and no longer part of the teaching of the Catholic Church

 

[ready]

We entrust those children to the mercy of God. But what about the five year olds with some un-atoned personal sin?

 

[Alex_D]

Baby’s that were not baptised will become angel in heaven. Limbo is incorrect and no longer part of the teaching of the Catholic Church

news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21595208-5001028,00.html

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

**The Catholic view is irrelevant because infant baptism or any water baptism does not remove sin; that is biblical. Since there isn’t any limbo that puts a silence on the issue for reason noted earlier. What is not known and is relevant is the actual age of accountability or age of reason as some refer. Romans 1 tells us that all of us have the knowledge of God as evident through His creation built into us so that none are without excuse and what we do with that knowledge will be what one is judged; so until a child can even comprehend God, much less reject Him they are safe. I have a 4 and 8 year old. My 8 year hold has some knowledge of God and what he has been exposed to he has accepted, but he is too young to fully understand and reject. I believe part of this is just applying what we know about God and using some common sense. Something else that comes to mind is that whenever we get a glimpse of hell in the Bible; there is never any mention of children.

The good news is that whether Catholic, Baptist, Methodist or even atheist, if it is a child and they die the parents should know they are safe in the arms of God.**

But you cannot know for sure. Also if the measure is being able to, “fully understand and reject” there are adults who have not been able to do this. I have encountered many people who do not “fully” understand their sin and how it separates them from God. Who determines when someone has “fully” understood? I am assuming God right? So no one can ever know for sure if they have or haven’t “fully” understood and reached the age of accountability.

Also could you provided me with a Bible verse which states that the age of accountability is measured by a child’s ability to “fully understand and reject”? Or is this a tradition that you have followed?

So I am looking for two things from the Bible:

1. What the exact age of accountability is or; (since it is not mentioned in the Bible)
2. what the measure to determine what the age of accountability is;

God bless