M
Magicsilence
Guest
Ive reached ultra scrupulous mode.
It seems to me that everything unnecessary is sinful.
Help!
In Christ.
andre.
It seems to me that everything unnecessary is sinful.
Help!
In Christ.
andre.
- Status
D
Della
Guest
I certainly hope not! I want to be able to eat my jelly beans with a clear conscience this Easter! 
Don’t be scrupulous. God created this world for our happiness not just to bring us to salvation. Dour saints become doubters and judgers. So, don’t let yourself slip into scrupulosity and so into worse things.
Believe in God, love Christ and your neighbor in thought, word and deed, and be at peace!
Don’t be scrupulous. God created this world for our happiness not just to bring us to salvation. Dour saints become doubters and judgers. So, don’t let yourself slip into scrupulosity and so into worse things.
Believe in God, love Christ and your neighbor in thought, word and deed, and be at peace!
J
JMJ_Theresa
Guest
Nothing is unnecessary when it is done with an intention to offer it to God. Also, for our little pleasures, we can enjoy and give thanks to God.
However, it seems to me that it is good to examine our lives to see the value of our activities. Life is so short, after all.
Perhaps you could talk to your confessor?
However, it seems to me that it is good to examine our lives to see the value of our activities. Life is so short, after all.
Perhaps you could talk to your confessor?
M
Magicsilence
Guest
JMJ Theresa:
Della, you said “God created the world for our happiness as well as our salvation”. Have you any Catholic teaching that backs that up? I thought this world was for suffering and the next was the happy one?
In Christ.
Andre.
Unfortunately i dont have one. There is one priest i see on and off who i really connect with, but ive never asked him nor will i ever ask. I get the feeling the priest doesnt want ANOTHER person to spiritually direct. Of course, if you meant confessor as any priest i confess to then… yes… i could bring it up, but the response is usually… love God, love everyone, dont sin. etc…
Della, you said “God created the world for our happiness as well as our salvation”. Have you any Catholic teaching that backs that up? I thought this world was for suffering and the next was the happy one?
In Christ.
Andre.
L
LilyM
Guest
You don’t need Biblical references to back this one up - didn’t God create flowers? Are they useful? No. Are they beautiful? Yes. And the mass talks about ‘free us from all anxiety as we wait in JOYFUL hope for the coming of our saviour …’
If you want Bible references, though, there’s the line (sorry I can’t remember the reference offhand) where Jesus says ‘my yoke is easy and my burden light’.
D
Della
Guest
Here:
Deut.16
[15] For seven days you shall keep the feast to the LORD your God at the place which the LORD will choose; because the LORD your God will bless you in all your produce and in all the work of your hands, so that you will be altogether joyful.
1Chr.12
[40] And also their neighbors, from as far as Is’sachar and Zeb’ulun and Naph’tali, came bringing food on asses and on camels and on mules and on oxen, abundant provisions of meal, cakes of figs, clusters of raisins, and wine and oil, oxen and sheep, for there was joy in Israel.
Esth.8
[16] The Jews had light and gladness and joy and honor.
[17] And in every province and in every city, wherever the king’s command and his edict came, there was gladness and joy among the Jews, a feast and a holiday.
Ps.45
[15] With joy and gladness they are led along
as they enter the palace of the king.
Ps.66
[1] Make a joyful noise to God, all the earth;
Ps.96
[12] let the field exult, and everything in it!
Then shall all the trees of the wood sing for joy
Isa.49
[13] Sing for joy, O heavens, and exult, O earth;
break forth, O mountains, into singing!
I could quote more, but you get the idea.
Our happiness, our joy, man and beast, tree and flower is in the Lord while we are on this earth as well as someday in heaven.
B
blessedstar
Guest
‘I rejoiced when I heard them say ‘Let us go to God’s house’’
Here in God’s house upon His Altar, in Christ Jesus we offer ourselves as sacrifice, we give ourselves up to God.
This has been so true so many times in my life I cannot explain, so do not think your life is to be one solely of suffering because that is not so, your life must also be about enjoyment and rejoicing and you know that your heart must be glad and thank God for ALL THINGS not making any difference between cross and what we view as blessing because all things are blessing, infact the greatest blessing is the cross…anyhow don’t get puritanical about these things because even Christ Himself was an accused glutton…you must be thankful to God in thick and in thin and that is all He asks of you, keep a faithful and thankful heart
You do know that all who offer themselves wholely as sacrifice to God in good and in hard times share the city of David in heaven, please read St Paul’s visions of heaven, so stick to the old school of counting all as blessing and offering all to God, this is afterall the way of the Cross, the narrow gate and the path our Lord trod before us.
**And again he took me away to another place, and I saw there a river like oil on the north of the city, and I saw people there rejoicing and singing praises. And I asked: Who are these, my lord? And he said to me: These are they who have given themselves up to God; for they are brought into this city. And I looked, and saw in the midst of the city an altar, great and very lofty; and there was one standing near the altar, whose face shone like the sun, and he had in his hands a psaltery and a harp, and he sung the Alleluia delightfully, and his voice filled all the city. And all with one consent accompanied him, so that the city was shaken by their shouting. And I asked the angel: Who is this that singeth delightfully, whom all accompany? And he said to me: This is the prophet David; this is the heavenly Jerusalem. When, therefore, Christ shall come in His second appearing, David himself goes forth with all the saints. For as it is in the heavens, so also upon earth: for it is not permitted without David to offer sacrifice even in the day of the sacrifice of the precious body and blood of Christ; but it is necessary for David to sing the Alleluia. And I asked the angel: My lord, what is the meaning of Alleluia? It is called in Hebrew, THEBEL, MAREMATHA–speech to God who founded all things: let us glorify Him in the same. So that every one who sings the Alleluia glorifies God. **
newadvent.org/fathers/0830.htm
see link
Here in God’s house upon His Altar, in Christ Jesus we offer ourselves as sacrifice, we give ourselves up to God.
This has been so true so many times in my life I cannot explain, so do not think your life is to be one solely of suffering because that is not so, your life must also be about enjoyment and rejoicing and you know that your heart must be glad and thank God for ALL THINGS not making any difference between cross and what we view as blessing because all things are blessing, infact the greatest blessing is the cross…anyhow don’t get puritanical about these things because even Christ Himself was an accused glutton…you must be thankful to God in thick and in thin and that is all He asks of you, keep a faithful and thankful heart
You do know that all who offer themselves wholely as sacrifice to God in good and in hard times share the city of David in heaven, please read St Paul’s visions of heaven, so stick to the old school of counting all as blessing and offering all to God, this is afterall the way of the Cross, the narrow gate and the path our Lord trod before us.**And again he took me away to another place, and I saw there a river like oil on the north of the city, and I saw people there rejoicing and singing praises. And I asked: Who are these, my lord? And he said to me: These are they who have given themselves up to God; for they are brought into this city. And I looked, and saw in the midst of the city an altar, great and very lofty; and there was one standing near the altar, whose face shone like the sun, and he had in his hands a psaltery and a harp, and he sung the Alleluia delightfully, and his voice filled all the city. And all with one consent accompanied him, so that the city was shaken by their shouting. And I asked the angel: Who is this that singeth delightfully, whom all accompany? And he said to me: This is the prophet David; this is the heavenly Jerusalem. When, therefore, Christ shall come in His second appearing, David himself goes forth with all the saints. For as it is in the heavens, so also upon earth: for it is not permitted without David to offer sacrifice even in the day of the sacrifice of the precious body and blood of Christ; but it is necessary for David to sing the Alleluia. And I asked the angel: My lord, what is the meaning of Alleluia? It is called in Hebrew, THEBEL, MAREMATHA–speech to God who founded all things: let us glorify Him in the same. So that every one who sings the Alleluia glorifies God. **
newadvent.org/fathers/0830.htm
see link
F
Flopfoot
Guest
God is our Father. How many fathers do you know who want their children to have only things which are strictly necessary for their survival, and nothing more? Fathers delight in the joy of their children. This includes God. “Would a father give a stone to a child asking for bread?”
Way back in Genesis, God created this world - the Earth - and He saw that it was good. Good, not bad, not a place for suffering. Suffering was never part of the original equation, it only entered the world because of sin (which is of course not God’s fault). Hence it is not God’s intention that you should suffer just for the sake of suffering. Sometimes we suffer in order to help us improve ourselves (eg, penance during Lent) but this is a long shot from saying that this world is made for suffering and that everything unnecessary is a sin. I’ll pray for you.
Way back in Genesis, God created this world - the Earth - and He saw that it was good. Good, not bad, not a place for suffering. Suffering was never part of the original equation, it only entered the world because of sin (which is of course not God’s fault). Hence it is not God’s intention that you should suffer just for the sake of suffering. Sometimes we suffer in order to help us improve ourselves (eg, penance during Lent) but this is a long shot from saying that this world is made for suffering and that everything unnecessary is a sin. I’ll pray for you.
T
Trevelyan
Guest
With scrupulousity (which I have been through, and overcome) you have to come down this:
Is it (the supposed sin) grave matter (for mortal sin)? (i.e. Is it a grave violation of one of the ten commandments?)
If not, and ‘useless’ or trivial things ARE NOT, then you still have the life of God dwelling within you.
“The just man falls seven times a day” (from somewhere in the Old Tesament).
So we ordinary sinners might fall 7000 times a day, but if we do not
COMMIT MORTAL SIN
that is:
TURN OUR BACKS ON GOD and WILL TO OFFEND HIM SO MUCH THAT HIS GRACE CAN NO LONGER DWELL WITHIN US
then God the Holy Trinity still makes his home in us, loves us, claims us as his own and wants to have us share in his heavenly kingdom - sinful though we are now.
Take my word for it - ‘useless’ things ARE NOT sinful.
DO NOT EVEN DEBATE IN YOUR MIND about the sinfulness of things -EVER - E-V-E-R!
PRAY THE ROSARY to divert your mind.
Is it (the supposed sin) grave matter (for mortal sin)? (i.e. Is it a grave violation of one of the ten commandments?)
If not, and ‘useless’ or trivial things ARE NOT, then you still have the life of God dwelling within you.
“The just man falls seven times a day” (from somewhere in the Old Tesament).
So we ordinary sinners might fall 7000 times a day, but if we do not
COMMIT MORTAL SIN
that is:
TURN OUR BACKS ON GOD and WILL TO OFFEND HIM SO MUCH THAT HIS GRACE CAN NO LONGER DWELL WITHIN US
then God the Holy Trinity still makes his home in us, loves us, claims us as his own and wants to have us share in his heavenly kingdom - sinful though we are now.
Take my word for it - ‘useless’ things ARE NOT sinful.
DO NOT EVEN DEBATE IN YOUR MIND about the sinfulness of things -EVER - E-V-E-R!
PRAY THE ROSARY to divert your mind.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
unnecessary to whom? who decided it is unnecessary? do you mean wearing socks with shoes, not strictly necessary, or butter on your bread, or leisure time activities and entertainment? do you mean devotional practices? do you mean any activity outside work? Do you mean rejecting pleasurable sights, sounds and activities and enjoyment of God’s creation? If you suffer from scrupulosity the classic spiritual directors would advise you to choose one good priest as a spiritual director and confessor, discuss your spirituality and struggles with him only, and not solicit random advice and comments from others.
B
blessedstar
Guest
Very good advice. I’d take that advice from Puzzleannie if I was you.
M
Magicsilence
Guest
Well, to be honest, the thing that is getting me now is playing a musical instrument. Its definitely not necessary, but i enjoy it so much. Also, i love performing, but i feel that this life is for suffering.
Didnt Mary say to the Fatima girls “I do not promise you happiness in this life, but in the next” ?
Also, Della, all your quotes are from the OT, the NT speaks of giving up everything for Christ etc… and all the saints seem to equate this life with suffering.
Anyone feel what Im saying?
In Christ.
Andre.
F
FCEGM
Guest
Andre, the Blessed Mother said it to them, not to you. Unless you have a private revelation from the Blessed Mother that you are meant to suffer a life of abject unhappiness, you have every reason to believe that though sufferings and unhappiness will come in all our lives the beauty of the world is given to us to rejoice in and participate in in legitimate ways. Your music and the gift you have been given is not something God wants you to squander because of some disordered notion about seeking only unhappiness. Use your music for His glory and to bring others to appreciate beauty and the God Who is the source of all beauty.
F
Flopfoot
Guest
Hmm that’s funny, I have been scrupulous over that same issue (playing an instrument) in the past. Because it is a thing that requires a lot of time and concentration and (we think) is done only to please us. However -
So go ahead, play your instrument - all of the musicians who have brought joy to our ears started off just playing for themselves at home, at performing at small venues. There’s a parable in the Gospels where this guy is given 5 talents and he goes and makes 5 more and his master is pleased. But the one who buries his talent in the ground is punished. So don’t abandon your musical talent, instead develop it so that you can bring joy to others.
By the way, to say all the saints equated this life with suffering, is to look at it very lop-sided. You could just as easily find things the saints have said about being thankful and joyful and say that that is their whole message. It’s just the way you’re looking at it, something is making you convince yourself that you are wrong to play music, when you are not. Fight against that voice.
- Your music pleases others, just think about how much you have been pleased by others’ music.
- You can use your talent to help out with the music at Church and in Christian groups (not always applicable, but worth looking into).
So go ahead, play your instrument - all of the musicians who have brought joy to our ears started off just playing for themselves at home, at performing at small venues. There’s a parable in the Gospels where this guy is given 5 talents and he goes and makes 5 more and his master is pleased. But the one who buries his talent in the ground is punished. So don’t abandon your musical talent, instead develop it so that you can bring joy to others.
By the way, to say all the saints equated this life with suffering, is to look at it very lop-sided. You could just as easily find things the saints have said about being thankful and joyful and say that that is their whole message. It’s just the way you’re looking at it, something is making you convince yourself that you are wrong to play music, when you are not. Fight against that voice.
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
I was personally counseled about this by one of my confessors.
He explained about the heresy of Jansensim which spread into the United States from priests who attended certain seminaries in Europe.
Folks who think every unnecessary thing is sinful need to do a Google search for Jansenism.
He explained about the heresy of Jansensim which spread into the United States from priests who attended certain seminaries in Europe.
Folks who think every unnecessary thing is sinful need to do a Google search for Jansenism.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
God did not create us for suffering, he created us for happiness. Since through the sin of our first parents sin and evil entered the world, so did suffering. God sent his son to suffer for us, since only his suffering is sufficient to remit the sin and evil and redeem us from its effects: suffering and death. To the extent that suffering is still part of life on this defective earth, we unite our suffering with those of Christ and thus partake in the redemptive power of his suffering. But we are not obligated to seek out suffering.
How do you know your music is unnecessary? If it is part of your vocation, part of the gifts God gave you in order to praise him and servie him in this world, it is necessary. Some spiritual writers have called music the language of the stars. The angels spend eternity praising God in heaven in heavenly song and music. The ideal celebration of Mass is sung, and as Augustine says, he who sings, prays twice. God created music and all good things, so he deemed it necessary. Who are we to say otherwise.
More classic spiritual direction: do not ever impose penance on yourself above that prescribed by the Church without permission of your confessor or spiritual director who knows you well. Even Therese who made a hobby out of accepting minor mortifications of daily life as suffering and through it developed her Little Way, received permission from her confessor, she did not go off on her own bat with it.
- Status