Is evolution a fact?

[Seamus_Sully]

Is the geological column a model or a reality?

How many models make are involved in the model of evolution?

If I have not ask the questions properly or clearly, I will try later, or perhaps some person can clear up my poor phraseology.

THANKS!!!

 

[Liberian]

Now thats embarrasing. Your brave.

Heh, heh, thank you, but it’s actually that I rush in where angels fear to tread.

• Liberian

 

[Seamus_Sully]

From the origins of the universe(s) through evolution: How many models does the scienific community use?

 

[Orogeny]

Is the geological column a model or a reality?

It’s a reality.

Peace

Tim

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Thank you!

Where?

 

[traditionMike]

I believe in Jesus Christ - the historical evidence alone is overwhelming.

Linkowsky posted many biblical references to Genesis. Most notably was that Jesus said in Mark 10:6 “At the beginning of creation God made them male and female.”

The problem with man evolving from apes is - When did God infuse man with a soul? Then, how is it fair that his parents did not have a soul?

And if man evolved from apes - when did sin enter his condition? For without sin there is no need for a savior.

So if one is Christian and believes in the evolution of man from apes, how does one answer these questions?

 

[Seamus_Sully]

I am most confident that I will ask the following questions poorly.

I already know that there are many gaps in my questions.

However, the basic ideas are: How many models are used by the scientific communities in explaining the existence of being through to our time?

Another basic idea: How much agreement is there in the total scientific communities? Our planet is large and I have often wondered about the East and how their scientists think?

So, again, forgive my poor phraseologies and elementary science!

Concerning the scientific communities, how many models are involved when moving from the origin(s) of the universe(s) to 2007?

How many models are used to explain why being or things actually exist? Or, why is there something and not nothing?

How many models in exists for the organization of the physical universe(s)?

How many models exists for the forming of galaxies?

How many models exists for the forming of stars?

How many models exists for the forming of planets?

How many models exists for the movement of inanimate beings to animated beings?

What came first: DNA or the parts that make up DNA? How many models for this movement?

How many models exists for the explanation as to how Nature came into existence?

How many models exists for explaining how the laws of nature evolved?

How many models exists for explaining the laws that govern the movement from no life to life?

How many models exists for explaining how the laws that govern the physical evolution evolved?

Which laws came first? (second, third, fourth and so on)

How many laws are there?

Do we know all of the laws?

How many do we not know?

How many do we not understand?

How many models exists for explaining how these governing laws work together?

How many models exists for the explanation of tectonic plates?

How many models exists for the explanation of the geologic column?

How many models exists that explain how REASON permeates the physical universes?

How many models exists that explain why REASON is in us?

How did Reason get in us?

How many models exists that explain why all of the laws of the universe are true in every location in the universe(s)?

Did math evolve?

Does math exists outside of the human mind?

Did reason evolve?

Does reason exists outside of the human mind or brain?

From where did all of the reason in the universe come?

Well, I have enough questions for now!

 

[Orogeny]

I am most confident that I will ask the following questions poorly.

You are right about that. What do you mean by models? Do you mean theories? Do you mean all possible models? Accepted models? Controversial models? Discredited models? Computer models?

Peace

Tim

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Orogeny

Please forgive my lack of knowledge, I am of the opinion that the geologic column is an abstraction or a compilation.

I am of the opinion that it does not exist in any one place.

I used the word opinion. I was given that understanding from general science books.

Therefore, please correct me, but do it in a gentle manner, thanks.

 

[Orogeny]

Thank you!

Where?

Well, here on earth, of course!

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

Orogeny

Please forgive my lack of knowledge, I am of the opinion that the geologic column is an abstraction or a compilation.

I am of the opinion that it does not exist in any one place.

I used the word opinion. I was given that understanding from general science books.

Therefore, please correct me, but do it in a gentle manner, thanks.

OK, first off, what are you specifically asking? Are you asking if it exists at all? Yes it does. Are you asking for specific locales where it can be found? Here is a nice summary of places and may actually refute the “general science books” you used as a reference.
talkorigins.org/faqs/geocolumn/
Why do you go to a “general science book” when there are plenty of geology books available at your local library and there are plenty of on-line geological source?

Peace

Tim

 

[Seamus_Sully]

I am asking if it exists in one or many locations.

I have not looked at your “talkorigins” but I will do that next.

I used general or physical science books because I have those.

I do not own any geology books.

Another question: do you believe in an “Evolver”?

But again, when I go to “talkorigins,” will they tell me that it can be found in any one place?

I beg of you, what is the answer?

 

[Orogeny]

I am asking if it exists in one or many locations.

I have not looked at your “talkorigins” but I will do that next.

I used general or physical science books because I have those.

I do not own any geology books.

Another question: do you believe in an “Evolver”?

Don’t know what an “evolver” is, but if it makes any difference, I do own “Revolver” by the Beatles!

Peace

Tim

 

[rossum]

I am most confident that I will ask the following questions poorly.

I already know that there are many gaps in my questions.

However, the basic ideas are: How many models are used by the scientific communities in explaining the existence of being through to our time?

I assume that by “model” you mean either “theory” or in some areas “hypotheses”.

Another basic idea: How much agreement is there in the total scientific communities? Our planet is large and I have often wondered about the East and how their scientists think?

Science is basically the same globally. One major contribution to the theory of evolution is neutral drift, which was originated by Motoo Kimura of Japan. Many interesting fossils are described by Chinese scientists.

I will comment only on your questions where I have some knowledge.

What came first: DNA or the parts that make up DNA? How many models for this movement?

DNA is a chemical made of atoms. Atoms formed before DNA. There are many hypotheses for abiogenesis, but no single theory yet. The immediate precursor of DNA was probably RNA as in the RNA World hypothesis.

Do we know all of the laws?

No.

How many do we not know?

We do not know.

How many do we not understand?

Some people understand more of the known laws than others. Nobody understands the unknown laws.

How many models exists for the explanation of tectonic plates?

One. Plate Tectonics.

How many models exists for the explanation of the geologic column?

One. Standard Geology.

How many models exists that explain how REASON permeates the physical universes?

What units are you using to measure REASON? What scientific papers can you reference to show that REASON permeates some or all of the universe? How does REASON interact with Gravity, the Electromagnetic force, the Weak force and the Strong force? On the other hand if you are asking a philosophical or theological question then there are probably as many models as there are philosophers or theologians.

How many models exists that explain why all of the laws of the universe are true in every location in the universe(s)?

Current theories are not true for every location. We know that either Quantum Mechanics or General Relativity (or both) are wrong in conditions of extreme curvature of space-time such as black holes and the initial monobloc of the Big Bang.

Did math evolve?

Mathematics is a separate subject, related to but not part of science. It is not an imperfect replicator so it did not evolve in the biological sense. It does develop in that mathematics builds on past mathematical results.

Does math exists outside of the human mind?

In order to tell you need to know how many minds there are in the universe. In principle an intelligent extraterrestrial could discover Pythagoras’ Theorem and so forth.

Did reason evolve?

The human brain evolved. Judging from your question, you appear to be reifying REASON. I do not accept any reifying of abstract concepts like reason. The world exhibits certain regularities - throw a rock into the air and it will fall down. Reason is one way for a biological organism to internalise those regularities and to use them to increase the number of its offspring.

Does reason exists outside of the human mind or brain?

In order to tell you need to know how many intelligent non-human minds there are in the universe. I do not accept a big REASON in the sky along the lines of a Platonic/Thomist substance.

From where did all of the reason in the universe come?

I suspect that it is an emergent property of the universe, though I have no proof of this.

rossum

 

[Seamus_Sully]

I looked at the article.

It is long and complex.

It will take several hours to work through that, and then I will have to read it again.

Therefore, please, does the geological column exists in one piece anywhere?

Is it a model, compilation, or abraction?

I am not a creationist.

“Evolver”: one or many beings that intelligently directed the evolution from the beginning physical being.

If one would like to say god, gods, or one that designs, that would be fine.

 

[Orogeny]

Therefore, please, does the geological column exists in one piece anywhere?

I expect that your question is really “does a complete geological column exist?”. Yes, it does. The article gives several locations where the column is found intact.

Is it a model, compilation, or abraction?

It is an observation.

“Evolver”: one or many beings that intelligently directed the evolution from the beginning physical being.

If one would like to say god, gods, or one that designs, that would be fine.

I am a Catholic, so of course I would say that God is the Creator and is involved in evolution. That being said, His presence, or the idea of His presence is not science.

Peace

Tim

 

[freesoulhope]

I believe that both evolution and Christianity (mostly as a religion) are complementary of each other and are not contradictory in respect of there being a divine creator ( Philosophically speaking, I find it pretty obvious that there is a God). But scripturaly there are some blatant untouched problems. I have no problem looking at life from a Scientific veiw, with Adam and Eve, descendents of a lower organism, being blessed with self awareness and the ability to appreciate existents; and its all cool that it happened 30,000 years or so back. But if we except the scientific interp’s, we run directly into scriptural problems with the blood line.( im not speaking of genesis, I’ve climbed that mountain).

At risk of being an advocate of the devil and, very reluctantly I might add, giving the enemy weapons to blind and agitate the weak, I ask this question…

How is one meant to understand the lineage?

There is a blood line that seems to stem all the way from Adam and Eve to are Lord Jesus Christ (am i wrong?). If the scientific time frame introduced by science and evolution is correct, then I cannot honestly hold that everything in the family tree, in respect of time and historical data, including evolution, is historically correct.

Now, I could never become a young earth creationist because philosophically, all the so called data collected in favour of it, doesn’t sound intellectually honest; neither could I leave Catholicism and become and atheist or take on any other religious ideal or philosophy, for similar reasons. It would be embarrassing for me.

Rejecting Stand-alone naturalistic explanations for reality and seeing that Christianity has many Good, powerful truths and arguments on its side, I have come to the belief that there is an honest answer to my question that does not compromise Christianity( More specifically " Catholicism). No matter how far away it takes us away from traditional interpretations of the bible; even if it leaves young earth creationist models sadly in the dust, Im prepared to tread into unknown lands for the truth.

Can we please have an unflinching, honest, philosophical discussion? I would Very much appreciate it if we spoke about things such as this on this forum.

Any theorys or ideas are welcome.

All in good faith. Free soul.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I believe that both evolution and Christianity (mostly as a religion) are complementary of each other and are not contradictory in respect of there being a divine creator ( Philosophically speaking, I find it pretty obvious that there is a God). But scripturaly there are some blatant untouched problems. I have no problem looking at life from a Scientific veiw, with Adam and Eve, descendents of a lower organism, being blessed with self awareness and the ability to appreciate existents; and its all cool that it happened 30,000 years or so back. But if we except the scientific interp’s, we run directly into scriptural problems with the blood line.( im not speaking of genesis, I’ve climbed that mountain).

At risk of being an advocate of the devil and, very reluctantly I might add, giving the enemy weapons to blind and agitate the weak, I ask this question…

How is one meant to understand the lineage?

There is a blood line that seems to stem all the way from Adam and Eve to are Lord Jesus Christ (am i wrong?). If the scientific time frame introduced by science and evolution is correct, then I cannot honestly hold that everything in the family tree, in respect of time and historical data, including evolution, is historically correct.

Now, I could never become a young earth creationist because philosophically, all the so called data collected in favour of it, doesn’t sound intellectually honest; neither could I leave Catholicism and become and atheist or take on any other religious ideal or philosophy, for similar reasons. It would be embarrassing for me.

Rejecting Stand-alone naturalistic explanations for reality and seeing that Christianity has many Good, powerful truths and arguments on its side, I have come to the belief that there is an honest answer to my question that does not compromise Christianity( More specifically " Catholicism). No matter how far away it takes us away from traditional interpretations of the bible; even if it leaves young earth creationist models sadly in the dust, Im prepared to tread into unknown lands for the truth.

Can we please have an unflinching, honest, philosophical discussion? I would Very much appreciate it if we spoke about things such as this on this forum.

Any theorys or ideas are welcome.

All in good faith. Free soul.

I would suggest starting a new thread considering this thread is 4 pages long and has taken multiple twists.

 

[freesoulhope]

I would suggest starting a new thread considering this thread is 4 pages long and has taken multiple twists.

Yep, i thought as much. I have started a knew thread named “Blood Lines”

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Thanks for the information about the geological column.

Sorry about the poor way that I asked that question.

I really wanted to know just how many models make up the model of evolution.

I have not had the time to read rossum’s post, but I will have to read it. It really looks great.

THANKS TIM!!!

THANKS ROSSUM!!!