Is evolution a fact?

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Isn’t it remarkable that science doesn’t discuss God? Because there is no scientific proof for his existence. That doesn’t mean they don’t believe in him, but they can’t discuss things based on the 5 Proofs or a visionary experience. Sorry.
Scientists don’t discuss God as scientists for the same reason auto mechancs don’t discuss sub-atomic physics. It’s outside their field.
 
Titus

Thank you for your answer.

I am not trying to be cute.

I am not playing.

I am prayerfully serious.

The questions that perplex me are: The lines that divide inanimate being to animated being, and no being to being.

I hold a belief that some scientists believe the line from inanimate being to animated being was crossed, it must have been done by evolution (self-directed and by chance).

If God created the universe, perhaps that line was not crossed.

Perhaps God made things alive and not alive.

If that divide was crossed, I do not believe it could have been absolutely self-directed.

Again, I am prayerfully serious.

I am not a sophist. Well, I hope and pray that I am not a sophist.

Please answer me. I like a gentle conversation. When I offended, I surely did not mean to do so.

I actually love science and math.

As a philosohper, theologian and historian, I make use of my knowledge of math and science. I have limits in all of the above mentioned areas. I am not a scholar, but a serious student.

THANK YOU!!!
 
Scientists don’t discuss God as scientists for the same reason auto mechancs don’t discuss sub-atomic physics. It’s outside their field.

The analogy that I will use is: The auto mechanics should listen to the engineers.

The bike racers should listen physics.

If God created the world, then human reason and science should make use of that knowledge.
 
Titus

Thank you for your answer.
** No problem. **

I am not trying to be cute.
**That’s great, but I never thought you were- you have raised excellent questions. **

I am not playing.
Good. No room for that here- try the Clubhouse!
I am prayerfully serious.
**Me too. **

The questions that perplex me are: The lines that divide inanimate being to animated being, and no being to being.

I hold a belief that some scientists believe the line from inanimate being to animated being was crossed, it must have been done by evolution (self-directed and by chance).
**It seems from this that you believe that some scientists believe that. So do I. Or are you saying you believe that? It’s a tad unclear. **

If God created the universe, perhaps that line was not crossed.
**What line? Sorry, I feel dumb here. **
Perhaps God made things alive and not alive.
**God created life and death. Nothing is created dead. It is created alive and dies (like us) or is never alive, like the ocean. **
If that divide was crossed, I do not believe it could have been absolutely self-directed.
**Me neither. I don’t understand how it could be self-directed. **
Again, I am prayerfully serious.

I am not a sophist. Well, I hope and pray that I am not a sophist.
Sophists asked money for their philosophical teaching. That was what set them apart from Socrates. How could you fall into that category!!?
Please answer me. I like a gentle conversation. When I offended, I surely did not mean to do so.
**I’m always gentle in debates, or so I hope. **

I actually love science and math.
I don’t. They’re rubbish. Give me Latin or Greek any day!

As a philosohper, theologian and historian, I make use of my knowledge of math and science. I have limits in all of the above mentioned areas. I am not a scholar, but a serious student.
**Always nice to meet a fellow student in the faith of Christ. **

THANK YOU!!!
 
When science does evolution, it rejects GOD.

God is not allowed in the equations.
God is outside the boundaries of science. There is no God in the equations of General Relativity. There is no God in the equations of magnetohydrodynamics. There is no God in the equations that engineers use to build bridges. There is no God in the equations of evolution. Evolution is just like any other science, it does not involve God. As soon as you involve God you are outside the boundaries of science and into theology or philosophy.

Science does not reject God, it just says that God is outside of the boundaries of science and hence science must remain silent on the matter. Silence is not rejection.
Evolution is not a fact.
Evolution is both a fact and a theory. Evolution-as-fact is the change in frequencies of alleles in the genome of a population. Evolution-as-theory is the scientific explanation for this observed fact. The explanation does not include God bacause no scientific explanation for anything ever includes God. If you want to include God then you should look for a theological or a philosophical explanation.

rossum
 
Evolution is both a fact and a theory. Evolution-as-fact is the change in frequencies of alleles in the genome of a population. Evolution-as-theory is the scientific explanation for this observed fact. The explanation does not include God bacause no scientific explanation for anything ever includes God. If you want to include God then you should look for a theological or a philosophical explanation.

rossum
Or to put it another way, Evolution is what God did. The Theory of Evolution is man’s explanation of how He did it.
 
Titus

Science seems to imply that once being was without life.

Now being has life.

Some time ago, the movement from no life to life was crossed.

If God created being, both inaminate and animate at the same time–then the line was never crossed.

Side note about Greek–Galatian 5, 6–“energeo”: what does it mean?

Could it mean love gives energy or life to faith?

Thanks
 
rossum

Thanks for the great distinctin on silence and rejection.

I hope to never forget it.

THANKS!!!
 
When one looks at nature one sees the magnificent regularity of its laws.

If on primative earth life began, why don’t we see life spring out of the lifeless matter today?

I hope that question makes some sense.

Nature manifests regularity.

I am wondering if life should not be evolving regularly even today, that is, life from lifeless matter.

I know that I do not know, but it seems that the earth is more favorable today for life coming into existence than on primative earth. I know that I might not be correct, but it seems to me that it might be correct.

Well, it is just a idea or question.
 
When one looks at nature one sees the magnificent regularity of its laws.

If on primative earth life began, why don’t we see life spring out of the lifeless matter today?
Perhaps because conditions on earth today are different than when life first began. And who knows? Maybe it is still happening. We know very little about the depths of the oceans, for example.

You seem to forget that even in Genesis, life comes from lifeless matter.

Peace

Tim
 
If on primative earth life began, why don’t we see life spring out of the lifeless matter today?
One possible reason is that when that first primitive new life with all of five minutes experience of the world is noticed by a bacterium with billions of years of evolution behind it the new life will get gobbled up very quickly. Also the chemistry of the world has changed since the origin of life.
I am wondering if life should not be evolving regularly even today, that is, life from lifeless matter.
Quite possibly it is, but it would have to be somewhere away from any existing life that would see it as a tasty snack. It could certainly be happening on extrasolar planets.
I know that I do not know, but it seems that the earth is more favorable today for life coming into existence than on primative earth. I know that I might not be correct, but it seems to me that it might be correct.
Probably not. Primitive earth had no free oxygen which seems to be a better environment for producing organic molecules - oxygen is very corrosive and breaks down such molecules unless it is well controlled. The oxygen in our atmosphere is the result of biological action - photosynthesis. All life on earth had to learn to cope with oxygen or to retreat to environments without oxygen. See Oxygen Catastrophe for more on this.

rossum
 
Titus

Science seems to imply that once being was without life.

Now being has life.

Some time ago, the movement from no life to life was crossed.

If God created being, both inaminate and animate at the same time–then the line was never crossed.

Side note about Greek–Galatian 5, 6–“energeo”: what does it mean?

Could it mean love gives energy or life to faith?

Thanks
I see what you mean, I think. All the theology makes me queasy, I admit. I will check out ‘energeo’. It’s not a terribly common word, anyway. 😃
 
Animals and organisms rarely eat there own kind. This being the case, dont you find it rather odd that any organism that doesn’t have a “concious agenda” should choose to be “distintive” of what it consumes?

If you do, then doesn’t this fact suppose design? Rather “Design Through Evolution”
 
Animals and organisms rarely eat there own kind. This being the case, dont you find it rather odd that any organism that doesn’t have a “concious agenda” should choose to be “distintive” of what it consumes?

If you do, then doesn’t this fact suppose design? Rather “Design Through Evolution”
Not necessarily, given that some do, e.g ants, and eating your own kind may not be very nutritious.
 
I know as Catholics we should not argue about it, as both accounts depend on a creator but could someone give me the Catholic views the are open to the theory on these:
  • God created the world in 7 days, man on the 6th
  • genealogy of our Lord Jesus contains only a few dozen generations, how could these extend over millions (or billions) of years to Adam the first man
  • death came through sin, yet evolution needs constant death
    1 Corinthians 15:21: “For certainly, death came through a man”.
    thanks for your help and God bless you
 
Here is the information you are looking for:

catholic.com/library/adam_eve_and_evolution.asp

Allow me to highlight a few parts by quoting them:

It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis I as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

It is equally impermissable to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2-3) as a fiction.

The acount of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.

God bless,
Ed
 
There has been recorded the evolution of a new species of bullrush that was a hybrid from two existing species of bullrush. It was fertile and was not able to interbreed with either of the two progenitor species. I don’t know whether this counts as “macro evolution” or not.
  • Liberian
Hmmm…that’s interesting.

Is there any information available for this?

I have to confess that I still have my own doubts concerning the theory of evolution. It seems to me, in my own opinion, that random mutations and selective pressures would still be hard-pressed to produce the multitude of life-forms we see today.

However, if cross-breading to produce an entirely new species were introduced into the formula, I think that the theory of evolution would become more credulous to those who doubt.

Personally, if evolution can indeed produce new species distinct from other species, I think it would most likely occur when two symbiotic species simultaniously mutate and the environment favors their mutual bonding.

For example, take a look as the relationship between displyed in this article called Mind-Controlling Wasps and Zombie Spiders.
It is a true example of mind control in nature, and though scientists are well aware of the method of infection, they are uncertain exactly how the mind control is accomplished. When a wasp successfully attacks a host spider, the spider is temporarily paralyzed as the wasp lays eggs on the tip of the spider’s abdomen. Once the wasp departs, the spider regains its ability to move, and it continues its daily web construction for the next two weeks as though nothing has changed. Meanwhile, the wasp’s growing larvae cling to the spider’s belly and feed on its juices through a number of small punctures.
On the night before the parasites kill their host, events take a bizarre turn. Through some unknown mechanism, the larvae compel their host spider to build a web that is very different from that it has always constructed before. Instead of a flat, round web, the spider builds a stout, reinforced platform which is much smaller. Once the new web is complete, the larvae kill their host, and cocoon themselves on the structure. It is ideal for the task, being resistant to wind and rain, and safe from the ants that inhabit the forest floor.
In short, it seems to me that, if the conditions were favorable, some kind of symbiotic mutation between these two species could result in a totally new type of species this is totally distinquished from either parent.

I’ve often wondered why God forbid us from cross breading in passages like this found in Leviticus 19:19.
Keep my decrees.
Do not mate different kinds of animals.
Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Perhaps the reason he has forbidden this is because he is the creator and we are not to play with his design in this way. Interestingly enough, here’s some examples of some modern hybrids.
 
Generally speaking, when it does get that old, the will 1) try and use a differant messure like Solar Output, or dating the gas in surrounding rocks. However, when you get to such immense ages, you will almost lways see somewhere fossile dates to 500 MY +/- 50 MY. 2) They will acknowledge that error and will even conceed it is possible one was before the other. They will also try and not make statements of “fact” regarding things like which came first because of that.

In Christ

I recall reading (in a book on crypto-zoology, of all things :o) that spiders had been around for 300 MY.​

How uncertain is that ? It’s not quite Pre-Cambrian, but it’s over half-way.
 
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