Is Evolution Compatible With Catholicism?

[brumano]

I am not here to discuss the validity of evolution. Please do not try to persuade myself or others whether or not evolution is correct; it is not the topic of this discussion. Please avoid a hellfire

My question is in the title: I believe in evolution, and I believe in God. I wish to join a religion and am undecided between Catholicism or Islam. If I believe in evolution, am I in conflict with Catholic belief? Can I still be a devout, practicing Catholic who believes in evolution?

Parts of some theories that come under the heading of evoloutionary science are absolutely not incompatibile with Catholic Doctrine and not incompatible with the Scriptures, here’s an example; evoloution accepts what is apparent from observing nature that living forms and organisms have adaptabilty, they can develop physically in response to environment or certain stimuli and that response can be transmitted over time to offspring and become a characteristic ability of that particular living form. The Catholic Church also accepts this observation of nature but the Church recognizes the dynamism and Intelligent Love of the Creator revealed by this in nature, whereas evolution as science stops after it’s observation and leaves the question of what force or what causes this to happen as an absolute unknown or attempts to find another physical explanation for what it states does occur.
The Catholic Church accepts Theistic Evolution as factually true this does not mean that the Church no longer accepts pure Creationism as revealed by other means, the Scriptures, His written and spoken word, Divine Revellation in total.
What is not compatible with Church doctrine are theories known as evolutionary being presented as disproofs for the existence of a creator, or any theories that point to an unknown itself as being the end of all that is knowable or lovable.

 

[DJK100]

Parts of some theories that come under the heading of evoloutionary science are absolutely not incompatibile with Catholic Doctrine and not incompatible with the Scriptures, here’s an example; evoloution accepts what is apparent from observing nature that living forms and organisms have adaptabilty, they can develop physically in response to environment or certain stimuli and that response can be transmitted over time to offspring and become a characteristic ability of that particular living form.

Sorry but what you described here is Lamarckism not evolution. Lamarckism is the idea that an organism can pass on characteristics that it acquired during its lifetime to its offspring. For example a giraffe is born with a short neck so it stretches it neck to get longer so it can eat leaves. That stretched neck is now passed onto the offspring.

That is not how evolution works.

 

[brumano]

Sorry but what you described here is Lamarckism not evolution. Lamarckism is the idea that an organism can pass on characteristics that it acquired during its lifetime to its offspring. For example a giraffe is born with a short neck so it stretches it neck to get longer so it can eat leaves. That stretched neck is now passed onto the offspring.

That is not how evolution works.

No need to be sorry, what I was talking about was adaptabilty, I said in the same sentence “over time” Lamarck and unknowst to alot of hardcore evolutionists, Darwin, for a time anyway prior to the release of Origins… thought that the traits could be acquired and then transmitted directly in the span of one generation as you say.
What I should have added to the condition “over time” would have been the conditional supposition that all other determinant factors remained fairly constant such as environment or the stimulus.
Traits can be acquired and we know are transmitted to offspring not by Lamarkism but by Mendelian findings through “the discreet particles” as he demonstrated.
Also, I’m a firm believer in pure creation as revealed divinely so there is always, no matter what or how much empirical science can ever contend, God’s mind and hand are always present in everything. That was more the point of the thread in addressing the OP, the OP just wants to know if evolution is compatible with Catholic Doctrine.
The nonsense about the short necked turning into giraffes is still taught as an example of how evolution “works”.

 

[JM3]

Correction: Google search [response to L Conte Jr] -twinc

I see some errors in Sungenis’ responses too.

Read the Church’s teaching and see for yourself.

Communion and Stewardship

 

[ricmat]

I am not here to discuss the validity of evolution. Please do not try to persuade myself or others whether or not evolution is correct; it is not the topic of this discussion. Please avoid a hellfire

My question is in the title: I believe in evolution, and I believe in God. I wish to join a religion and am undecided between Catholicism or Islam. If I believe in evolution, am I in conflict with Catholic belief? Can I still be a devout, practicing Catholic who believes in evolution?

I think the short answer is, it depends on how you define evolution. If you define evolution as “God not involved”, as many do, then of course it is not compatible with Catholicism. If you deny that God knew in advance “how things would turn out”, then it is not compatible with Catholicism. If you allow that God guided the process, and that we are here because God intended us to be here, and that we were created as God intended us to be from the beginning, then it’s OK. IMHO.

I notice that when backed into a corner, the definition of evolution sometimes morphs into “change over time” which of course is not actually disputed by anybody (after all, we are all somewhat different than our parents), and which is pretty meaningless in any case. As a theory “things change over time” doesn’t really explain very much.

 

[brumano]

@Allegra: I’m not basing my decision on the stance of Catholicism and Islam on evolution. I am curious and don’t know if I should believe in a triune God or not. At the moment both Catholicism and Islam have valid points, sound logic and a strong following. I’m just not sure what to pick, so I pray to God for guidance in this matter. In the meantime, I want to ask questions and keep searching for the answer in the hopes that, one day, I will find it.

God has revealled Himself as a Tri Une God, read Genesis in the light of the Trinity, read the Gospels, we say that it is revealled truth because it can be shown to be true. but it is also a Doctrine of faith that must ultimately be believed in more than known of. Islam goes blank in so many areas that you will be left with an incomplete and unfullfilled God and that cannot be the real God. Islam as does Judaism holds parts of the whole truth and those parts are true, but the fullness of truth is what God is, and the fullness of His gift to you is what he intended for you to have, that is offered to you in the Catholic Church.

 

[twinc]

I see some errors in Sungenis’ responses too.

Sungenis is merely offering not what he accepts or teaches but what the Church accepts and teaches via Catechism at CCC327 and via infallible Church Councils that have been and are binding on Catholics and what is forbidden and anathema.If anything else is accepted other than what has been pointed out it is in error and forbidden and anathema to and for Catholics by the Church and not Sungenis - twinc

 

[twinc]

Evolution and Catholicism are absolutely incompatible - the Church teaches,has taught and must always teach ‘simul et ex nihilo’ = catholic doctrine of creation = instant creation in its whole substance out of nothing = no evolution necessary or possible = God did not and could not possibly participate in that which did not and could not happen = to accept or teach Evolution has been and is forbidden and anathema to and for Catholics but as we see even here not many Catholics realise or know this - via Google search box type in [response to L Coyne Jr] and click - also see www.cfnews.org/sung-pio.htm - twinc

correction:- Google search [response to L Conte Jr] - twinc

 

[twinc]

I would encourage anyone that wants to know what the Church actually teaches about evolution to read the Church’s actual documents, such as Communion and Stewardship, which I linked to in an earlier post and again below. The fact that some Catholics take a fundamentalist/evangelical view of the topic says nothing about what the Church actually teaches. Read the Church’s teaching and see for yourself.

Communion and Stewardship

read what the Church actually teaches via the Catechism at CCC327 and infallible Church Councils,encyclicals etc at www.cfnews.org/sung-pio.htm - twinc

 

[twinc]

Twinc, I thank you for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut. However, please refrain from attacking the views and opinions of other posters in this thread so as to avoid a flame war. Stating that your personal beliefs and your understanding of the Catholic Religion and it’s doctrines lead you to believe that evolution is false and a fakery is completely acceptable and understandable. However, try to keep your opinion from aggressing against the opinion of others, even if you believe them to be wrong.

imho we are here discussing not what is my opinion or that of others but what the Church teaches and accepts and expects Catholics to accept and teach etc - twinc

 

[twinc]

Parts of some theories that come under the heading of evoloutionary science are absolutely not incompatibile with Catholic Doctrine and not incompatible with the Scriptures, here’s an example; evoloution accepts what is apparent from observing nature that living forms and organisms have adaptabilty, they can develop physically in response to environment or certain stimuli and that response can be transmitted over time to offspring and become a characteristic ability of that particular living form. The Catholic Church also accepts this observation of nature but the Church recognizes the dynamism and Intelligent Love of the Creator revealed by this in nature, whereas evolution as science stops after it’s observation and leaves the question of what force or what causes this to happen as an absolute unknown or attempts to find another physical explanation for what it states does occur.
The Catholic Church accepts Theistic Evolution as factually true this does not mean that the Church no longer accepts pure Creationism as revealed by other means, the Scriptures, His written and spoken word, Divine Revellation in total.
What is not compatible with Church doctrine are theories known as evolutionary being presented as disproofs for the existence of a creator, or any theories that point to an unknown itself as being the end of all that is knowable or lovable.

btw the Church does not accept or teach Theistic Evolution nor has it or can it or will it and not only for the fact that God cannot and did not participate in evolution that cannot and did not happen - twinc

 

[TMC]

read what the Church actually teaches via the Catechism at CCC327 and infallible Church Councils,encyclicals etc at www.cfnews.org/sung-pio.htm - twinc

Evolution is not incompatible with the Faith, and CCC 327 does not say that it is. Surely you are not seriously contending that Communion and Stewardship - which was approved by Cardinal Ratzinger, is in conflict with the Catechism - which was written by Cardinal Ratzinger? And also saying that the current and last Popes erred when they said that evolution and Catholicism are compatible? Or are you saying you are a better judge of that than the Popes?

 

[Discipulo]

Catholics are certainly not free to accept Evolution since permission to research and discuss[as is the case here] does not mean and cannot mean allowed to accept and no Pope or Popes have or can or needs to ever allow Catholics to accept what has not and cannot happen - twinc

“If taken literally, the Biblical view of the beginning of life and Darwin’s scientific view would seem irreconcilable. In Genesis, the creation of the world, and Adam, the first human, took six days. Evolution’s process of genetic mutation and natural selection-the survival and proliferation of the fittest new species-has taken billions of years, according to scientists …”

“In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII had already stated that there was no opposition between evolution and the doctrine of the faith about man and his vocation, on condition that one did not lose sight of several indisputable points.”

• Blessed Pope John Paul II

 

[Hokomai]

micro evolution is an acceptable fact but macro evolution is not science or a fact for it is pseudo/phoney science and not even a theory since it did not and cannot happen - twinc

I am afraid there are not acceptable and unacceptable facts. facts just are, and evolution is one of them. You share your DNA with trees and worms and chimps and other people. You have common ancestors.

 

[twinc]

Evolution is not incompatible with the Faith, and CCC 327 does not say that it is. Surely you are not seriously contending that Communion and Stewardship - which was approved by Cardinal Ratzinger, is in conflict with the Catechism - which was written by Cardinal Ratzinger? And also saying that the current and last Popes erred when they said that evolution and Catholicism are compatible? Or are you saying you are a better judge of that than the Popes?

notice that it is you that is saying what I am not saying but you are saying that I am saying it and also saying that you know better than anyone that some Pope or Popes have and can unbind what has been infallibly bound by previous Popes and the Magisterium and infallible Church Councils and the Catechism etc - twinc

 

[Scitech]

Thanks dear friend for sharing these information’s…

 

[twinc]

I am afraid there are not acceptable and unacceptable facts. facts just are, and evolution is one of them. You share your DNA with trees and worms and chimps and other people. You have common ancestors.

not common ancestor but common designer for it has even been postulated that monkeys came after man and not before via complex to simple is possible but not vice versa - twinc

 

[twinc]

“If taken literally, the Biblical view of the beginning of life and Darwin’s scientific view would seem irreconcilable. In Genesis, the creation of the world, and Adam, the first human, took six days. Evolution’s process of genetic mutation and natural selection-the survival and proliferation of the fittest new species-has taken billions of years, according to scientists …”

“In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII had already stated that there was no opposition between evolution and the doctrine of the faith about man and his vocation, on condition that one did not lose sight of several indisputable points.”

• Blessed Pope John Paul II

exactly as stated - since the world and everything in it is not millions of years old so Evolution did not and cannot happen - btw there certainly is no opposition to micro evolution - twinc

 

[Hokomai]

not common ancestor but common designer for it has even been postulated that monkeys came after man and not before via complex to simple is possible but not vice versa - twinc

DNA is transmitted by descent. You and I share common ancestors. You, I and tress have common ancestors. either that or God creates every single living thing, down to and including bacteria, and does so in such a way as to fool us that they are related. You can believe that is you want, but there is no point in us, or anyone, discussing it as it is a self-defining theory.

 

[Hokomai]

DNA is transmitted by descent. You and I share common ancestors. You, I and tress have common ancestors. either that or God creates every single living thing, down to and including bacteria, and does so in such a way as to fool us that they are related. You can believe that is you want, but there is no point in us, or anyone, discussing it as it is a self-defining theory.

i meant to say ‘You, I and trees’. But we may share a common ancestor with tress as well for all I know!