Is Evolution Compatible With Catholicism?

[brumano]

btw the Church does not accept or teach Theistic Evolution nor has it or can it or will it and not only for the fact that God cannot and did not participate in evolution that cannot and did not happen - twinc

The only school let’s call it of evolutionary thought that the church does allow is plausible is theistic evolution, the theological teachings of the church are superior to doctrines that have scientific or pragmatic componnents; and we can see this on other issues as well, we walk by faith not by sight but that does not mean that we keep our eyes tightly shut. Living forms do develop, there is adaptation and it is provable. That is a fact of natural life, nature reflects and is sustained by it’s creator. Theistic evolution allows the seperate creation of the man and woman. What have the recent Popes said in regard to evolution, do they say that it cannot and did not happen?

 

[brumano]

Evolution and Catholicism are absolutely incompatible - the Church teaches,has taught and must always teach ‘simul et ex nihilo’ = catholic doctrine of creation = instant creation in its whole substance out of nothing = no evolution necessary or possible = God did not and could not possibly participate in that which did not and could not happen = to accept or teach Evolution has been and is forbidden and anathema to and for Catholics but as we see even here not many Catholics realise or know this - via Google search box type in [response to L Coyne Jr] and click - also see www.cfnews.org/sung-pio.htm - twinc

If it is an absolute that creation was instantaneous then we still have metered and ordered time from that point in time to deal with. I think you’re presenting one possibilty as an absolute.

 

[TMC]

notice that it is you that is saying what I am not saying but you are saying that I am saying it and also saying that you know better than anyone that some Pope or Popes have and can unbind what has been infallibly bound by previous Popes and the Magisterium and infallible Church Councils and the Catechism etc - twinc

I’m not sure what the first part of this is supposed to mean, but I am not speaking for myself, I have only pointed to the Church’s teaching and the statements of the Pope and his predecessors. I am not saying that any Pope has “unbound” anything - I am saying that the Church and the Popes understand what the Church teaches, and they say that evolution is compatible with the faith. If some think that seems incompatible with past teaching, I am confident that the Church and the Pope know what they are doing and are correct that it is not. Its sounds to me like you are saying that the latest four Popes are wrong about that, that despite the Church’s teaching on the issue you know more about what the Church teaches than the Pope or the Church itself. If that is not what you are saying, then what are you saying?

 

[brumano]

I’m not sure what the first part of this is supposed to mean, but I am not speaking for myself, I have only pointed to the Church’s teaching and the statements of the Pope and his predecessors. I am not saying that any Pope has “unbound” anything - I am saying that the Church and the Popes understand what the Church teaches, and they say that evolution is compatible with the faith. If some think that seems incompatible with past teaching, I am confident that the Church and the Pope know what they are doing and are correct that it is not. Its sounds to me like you are saying that the latest four Popes are wrong about that, that despite the Church’s teaching on the issue you know more about what the Church teaches than the Pope or the Church itself. If that is not what you are saying, then what are you saying?

I can’t answer what he’s saying and sorry to butt in here, think there’s some confusion about how the term evolution is being meant and understood in this thread; parts of what is called evolutionary science are consistent with accepted scientific findings, but he is right if he means that statements that are made by evolutionary science are anathema if they contradict infallible teachings of the church.

 

[TMC]

I can’t answer what he’s saying and sorry to butt in here, think there’s some confusion about how the term evolution is being meant and understood in this thread; parts of what is called evolutionary science are consistent with accepted scientific findings, but he is right if he means that statements that are made by evolutionary science are anathema if they contradict infallible teachings of the church.

Sure, but that is true of literally everything. If a quantum physicist opines that quantum physics proves there is no God, that statement contradicts the Catholic faith. But that does not trouble me or lead me to abandon my belief in quantum physics, because I know that he is saying that because of his ignorance about faith and theology. I, on the other hand, know that quantum physics and my faith are perfectly compatible. While its unfortunate that particular scientist has such a poor grasp of theology, his ignorance says nothing about my faith. The same is true of any biologists or geneticists that believe that evolution somehow disproves God - they are wrong and their mistake stems from a lack of understanding about theology and religion. That is sad, but says nothing about my faith.

 

[twinc]

The only school let’s call it of evolutionary thought that the church does allow is plausible is theistic evolution, the theological teachings of the church are superior to doctrines that have scientific or pragmatic componnents; and we can see this on other issues as well, we walk by faith not by sight but that does not mean that we keep our eyes tightly shut. Living forms do develop, there is adaptation and it is provable. That is a fact of natural life, nature reflects and is sustained by it’s creator. Theistic evolution allows the seperate creation of the man and woman. What have the recent Popes said in regard to evolution, do they say that it cannot and did not happen?

I repeat again that the Church does not and cannot even allow theistic evolution since ‘simul et ex nihilo’ = Catholic doctrine of creation = instant and complete creation out of nothing = no evolution necessary or possible. No recent Pope/s can or has over ruled or rescinded ‘simul et ex nihilo’ - twinc

 

[twinc]

If it is an absolute that creation was instantaneous then we still have metered and ordered time from that point in time to deal with. I think you’re presenting one possibilty as an absolute.

Creation,as we know it, was not instantaneous but over a period of 6 x 24hr days - what was instantaneous was all that was created on each of those days - Jesus Christ showed us exactly how God works in an instant and out of nothing just as happens in miracles etc - twinc

 

[PJM]

=SoulBeaver;8411075]I am not here to discuss the validity of evolution. Please do not try to persuade myself or others whether or not evolution is correct; it is not the topic of this discussion. Please avoid a hellfire

My question is in the title: I believe in evolution, and I believe in God. I wish to join a religion and am undecided between Catholicism or Islam. If I believe in evolution, am I in conflict with Catholic belief? Can I still be a devout, practicing Catholic who believes in evolution?

YES…BUT! Only when God recieves due credit for the evolution.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[twinc]

Sure, but that is true of literally everything. If a quantum physicist opines that quantum physics proves there is no God, that statement contradicts the Catholic faith. But that does not trouble me or lead me to abandon my belief in quantum physics, because I know that he is saying that because of his ignorance about faith and theology. I, on the other hand, know that quantum physics and my faith are perfectly compatible. While its unfortunate that particular scientist has such a poor grasp of theology, his ignorance says nothing about my faith. The same is true of any biologists or geneticists that believe that evolution somehow disproves God - they are wrong and their mistake stems from a lack of understanding about theology and religion. That is sad, but says nothing about my faith.

of course we are not here solely corcerned about your faith as a self proclaimed advanced and enlightened Christian.There are many Christians who do not and refuse to accept that the Bible is totally inerrant in all its parts even where it touches on history and science - nor is it full of errors,lies,contradictions,exaggerations,myths and fairy tales of Adam and Eve,Noah,global flood,six days of creation etc - hopefully you believe and accept all this as the word of God who cannot and does not lie and who is the creator of all science and scientists and historians etc and accept also that the sun goes round the earth and the earth does not move because God says so unlike most scientists - so how about you - any comments - twinc

 

[TMC]

I repeat again that the Church does not and cannot even allow theistic evolution since ‘simul et ex nihilo’ = Catholic doctrine of creation = instant and complete creation out of nothing = no evolution necessary or possible. No recent Pope/s can or has over ruled or rescinded ‘simul et ex nihilo’ - twinc

The Church has explained that creatio ex nihilo is not incompatible with either the Big Bang or evolution. From Communion and Stewarship:

1. With respect to the creatio ex nihilo, theologians can note that the Big Bang theory does not contradict this doctrine insofar as it can be said that the supposition of an absolute beginning is not scientifically inadmissible. Since the Big Bang theory does not in fact exclude the possibility of an antecedent stage of matter, it can be noted that the theory appears to provide merely indirect support for the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo which as such can only be known by faith.

1. With respect to the evolution of conditions favorable to the emergence of life, Catholic tradition affirms that, as universal transcendent cause, God is the cause not only of existence but also the cause of causes. God’s action does not displace or supplant the activity of creaturely causes, but enables them to act according to their natures and, nonetheless, to bring about the ends he intends. In freely willing to create and conserve the universe, God wills to activate and to sustain in act all those secondary causes whose activity contributes to the unfolding of the natural order which he intends to produce. Through the activity of natural causes, God causes to arise those conditions required for the emergence and support of living organisms, and, furthermore, for their reproduction and differentiation. Although there is scientific debate about the degree of purposiveness or design operative and empirically observable in these developments, they have de facto favored the emergence and flourishing of life. Catholic theologians can see in such reasoning support for the affirmation entailed by faith in divine creation and divine providence. In the providential design of creation, the triune God intended not only to make a place for human beings in the universe but also, and ultimately, to make room for them in his own trinitarian life. Furthermore, operating as real, though secondary causes, human beings contribute to the reshaping and transformation of the universe.

Again, I will accept Pope Benedict’s analysis of this aspect of the faith. Why won’t you?

 

[TMC]

of course we are not here solely corcerned about your faith as a self proclaimed advanced and enlightened Christian.There are many Christians who do not and refuse to accept that the Bible is totally inerrant in all its parts even where it touches on history and science - nor is it full of errors,lies,contradictions,exaggerations,myths and fairy tales of Adam and Eve,Noah,global flood,six days of creation etc - hopefully you believe and accept all this as the word of God who cannot and does not lie and who is the creator of all science and scientists and historians etc and accept also that the sun goes round the earth and the earth does not move because God says so unlike most scientists - so how about you - any comments - twinc

I have never claimed to be either advanced or enlightened. I am only quoting the Church on these topics. You seem to be saying that the Church is wrong and that you know better. Do you deny the teaching authority of the Church on these topics, or are you saying I am reading the Church’s teaching wrong? You have not said that I am interpreting these Church documents wrong, so I am left to assume the former.

 

[minkymurph]

I am not here to discuss the validity of evolution. Please do not try to persuade myself or others whether or not evolution is correct; it is not the topic of this discussion. Please avoid a hellfire

My question is in the title: I believe in evolution, and I believe in God. I wish to join a religion and am undecided between Catholicism or Islam. If I believe in evolution, am I in conflict with Catholic belief? Can I still be a devout, practicing Catholic who believes in evolution?

Interesting question. Some Catholics appear to be of the opinion that one cannot be Catholic and accept evolution. The Church does not compel Catholics to accept evolution. Therefore, some Catholics reject evolution outright and are free to do so. However, some Catholics are of the opinion one can accept evolution and be Catholic and officially, the Church does not teach Catholics must not believe evolution at all. However, the Church places certain restrictions on the relationship between Church teaching and evolution. Atheistic interpretations of evolutionary theories - as in, there is no God and God played no part in the evolutionary process because God does not existare not compatible with Catholicism - are obviously incompatible with Catholicism, and many other Christian denominations.

So, in answer to your question there are Catholics who do not accept evolution at all, which they are free to do, and they may say you can’t. However, the Church does not teach that. Therefore, in the eyes of the Church you can still be a devout, practicing Catholic and believe evolution, but not individual Catholics.

 

[twinc]

YES…BUT! Only when God recieves due credit for the evolution.

God Bless,
Pat

sadly many,unknowing and unaware, have been misled and mislead others and hence sadly and alas are the cause of this division in the Church.The Church says and has always said that Evolution [as origin of the world] is forbidden and anathema for Catholics to accept or teach as fact - twinc

 

[twinc]

I have never claimed to be either advanced or enlightened. I am only quoting the Church on these topics. You seem to be saying that the Church is wrong and that you know better. Do you deny the teaching authority of the Church on these topics, or are you saying I am reading the Church’s teaching wrong? You have not said that I am interpreting these Church documents wrong, so I am left to assume the former.

in a complete reversal,many Catholics have been and are being led to accept that creationists,like myself,have somehow and for some strange reason got it wrong and are not in conformity with what the Church really teaches - the opposite is the case and must be accepted once again and soon and sooner rather than later - why this urge and itching ears to accept way out,weird and wacky alternatives to the sane and sound and true original - the mere fact that the Church allows the proper and improper sense to be accepted means that the creationists accept the proper sense whilst others have an urge to accept the way out,weird and wacky improper sense - twinc

 

[twinc]

Interesting question. Some Catholics appear to be of the opinion that one cannot be Catholic and accept evolution. The Church does not compel Catholics to accept evolution. Therefore, some Catholics reject evolution outright and are free to do so. However, some Catholics are of the opinion one can accept evolution and be Catholic and officially, the Church does not teach Catholics must not believe evolution at all. However, the Church places certain restrictions on the relationship between Church teaching and evolution. Atheistic interpretations of evolutionary theories - as in, there is no God and God played no part in the evolutionary process because God does not existare not compatible with Catholicism - are obviously incompatible with Catholicism, and many other Christian denominations.

So, in answer to your question there are Catholics who do not accept evolution at all, which they are free to do, and they may say you can’t. However, the Church does not teach that. Therefore, in the eyes of the Church you can still be a devout, practicing Catholic and believe evolution, but not individual Catholics.

the reason why God played no part in the evolutionary process was because there was no evolutionary process according to God and simul et ex nihilo according to His church - btw unlike so called pseudo/phoney Catholic evolutionists,Catholic creationists do not need permission to accept creationism - pseudo/phoney Catholic evolutionists have been described as such by real evolutionists and stated as having one foot in each camp etc - twinc

 

[macaddicted]

Evolution and Catholicism are absolutely incompatible - the Church teaches,has taught and must always teach ‘simul et ex nihilo’ = catholic doctrine of creation = instant creation in its whole substance out of nothing = no evolution necessary or possible = God did not and could not possibly participate in that which did not and could not happen = to accept or teach Evolution has been and is forbidden and anathema to and for Catholics but as we see even here not many Catholics realise or know this - via Google search box type in [response to L Coyne Jr] and click - also see www.cfnews.org/sung-pio.htm - twinc

The problem with this point of view is it eventually falls into what is called, sarcastically, The Church of Last Tuesday. Everything was created by God as we see it last Tuesday. There is no easy way to disprove it because anyone who holds to this idea can fall back on “God did it that way” as a response to ANY evidence that contradicts the idea.

The prime opponents to TCoLTu is The Church of Last Thursday.

 

[macaddicted]

Catholics are certainly not free to accept Evolution since permission to research and discuss[as is the case here] does not mean and cannot mean allowed to accept and no Pope or Popes have or can or needs to ever allow Catholics to accept what has not and cannot happen - twinc

Aaannd we just tossed Pius XII under the bus.

 

[DAAVEED1590]

In short, It is not compatable and never has been. Bl John Paul II never condoned it, contraary to what many think.

Please put your faith in Genesis, not in a passing scientific fad.

God Bless and Ave Maria!

 

[Hokomai]

Evolution is an observable fact. Advances in genetics make it impossible in a rational way to deny that living things of different species have common ancestors. If a fact is not compatible with the Catholic faith, then the Catholic faith is wrong. For clarification: the ‘theory of evolution’ is a theory of how evolution happens, not a claim that it is a fact. that is obvious, just as it is obvious that gravity is a fact.

 

[twinc]

Evolution is an observable fact. Advances in genetics make it impossible in a rational way to deny that living things of different species have common ancestors. If a fact is not compatible with the Catholic faith, then the Catholic faith is wrong. For clarification: the ‘theory of evolution’ is a theory of how evolution happens, not a claim that it is a fact. that is obvious, just as it is obvious that gravity is a fact.

they do not have common ancestors,what they do have is a common designer - nearest common ancestors for humans would be those for the water melon and jelly fish - if a so called fact by pseudo/phoney science replete with fakes,cons and frauds is not compatible with the Catholic faith then the so called phoney fact is wrong - twinc