Is faith a choice?

[CatsAndDogs]

The fact is that throughout our discourse you have said atheist are this, atheist are that….it has all been presumption on your part. You have not given any facts. The dirty secret that you have missed is that I have never said I am an atheist. THAT IS YOUR ASSUMPTION. If conclusion jumping were an Olympic sport you would have a gold my man!

I still enjoyed our discussion because even though we disagree you have a warrior attitude. I respect that more than the “just be nice” people. Good luck to you.

OK,… ya’ made me look! <chortle, chortle, chortle!>

No one is REALLY an atheist. You are certainly not REALLY an atheist, because human beings can’t really be atheists.

But, you are certainly a God “disliker” (if not a “hater”), because you don’t want to know what God qua God means.

You don’t want to know God because of the ridiculous “masks” that evil-doing people have presented Him as being, and the “satisfaction” that the demons have provided you with for your “worship” of them in His stead.

It really doesn’t matter how you “formally” describe yourself in relation to your religion. The only thing that matters is that you are either moving toward God or away from Him, and that can rather easily be deduced from a very slight amount of evidence even in these asynchronous conversations.

I’m not interested in confirming you in your “non-atheism”, if that’s how you’d describe yourself. I’m not here to prove anything to you, or convert you to or from anything.

I’m just interested in trying to get you to understand how I understand whatever “question” is on the table. If you’re interested in anything but having me understand you then you’re simply going to fail miserably, because I’m utterly intransigent and fixed in what I do actually believe.

Most anti-Catholics, meaning “those who actively want others to be as ‘free’ as they are to disregard the Church (Catholic) when it suits them”, truly think that they are being good by trying to “pry” the brainwashed slavish Catholic away from the “Evil Authority” and get them to “think for themselves”, and take it very personally when their “anti-Catholic religion” (usually worshipful of “science/reason”) is described as it actually appears to be to the “assaulted” Catholic.

I’m more than happy to agree to disagree with you, as we appear to have much to agree to disagree about!

But, I’m not impressed with your capacity to agree to anything, even to agree to disagree. When you (hopefully) come around to wanting to find out what our basic (axiomatic) disagreements actually are, and agree to disagree about the wisdom of holding those axioms, then it’ll no doubt be a joy to converse with you.

:shamrock2:

 

[Kuzushi]

I think that given the orderliness of nature some intelligent being HAD to have planned it. The way it looks to me is that God put his hand on the world, set it to spinning, and then said “good luck people you are on your own.” I just do not see God’s intervention in mine or others lives. If we Catholics truly ingest the son of God things should be different and yet they are not. Look at history and look at the other things I have written. Frankly, I am amazed others so not see the truth more clearly.

I am a cradle Catholic and I was an alter boy, an usher, and extraordinary minister, a lectern, a Knight of Columbus, and I attended 12 years of Catholic School. The education and experience is there. As I have said, once I realized that God will not help me or anyone else in any way I knew it is up to me. For protection I workout, take martial arts etc. For financial security I am working on starting up businesses and having multiple streams of income. I am not mad at God, but rather I just accept things as they are. I think when people are ready and brave enough they will come to the same conclusion I have reached. Many already have.

 

[Michael_David]

I think that given the orderliness of nature some intelligent being HAD to have planned it. The way it looks to me is that God put his hand on the world, set it to spinning, and then said “good luck people you are on your own.” I just do not see God’s intervention in mine or others lives.
…
As I have said, once I realized that God will not help me or anyone else in any way I knew it is up to me.

It is God’s “intervention” that is amiss in a world that He “sustains”. Why should He ‘intervene’ when He is already here doing what He does? And why should we ‘assume’ that things will go a certain way, then they change course, and we give it a name that we do not understand… all the while God was steering the course, but we were not in-tune with His thoughts and ‘knew it not’ till it was completed.

As I look back in history, the Bible for one, no one was helped by God (or Christ) that was able to take care of themselves… it was the ‘losers’ and the ones that where facing more then they could handle that were assisted or cured. It is these with Faith that things can be done for… not the head-strong; not the power-gurus; not the proud; not the ‘cocky’; not those ‘tough-enough’ or ‘smart-enough’ to have fall-back systems in place. It was those that had reached the end of their rope that He helped (helps) in this world… because He is already here… no ‘intervention’ is needed.

It is that experience that you must not of known since you are so independent and self-sufficient, always having a back-up, never at a loss of resources, that you have never been in a situation that ‘over-powered’ you and you used that Faith to call on His assistance.

That time may come… then you will KNOW!

 

[Kuzushi]

As I look back in history, the Bible for one, no one was helped by God (or Christ) that was able to take care of themselves… it was the ‘losers’ and the ones that where facing more then they could handle that were assisted or cured.

You speak as if what you said is an absolute, and it is not. Look in history and you will see that through the ages millions have died from plagues, famines, droughts, diseases, etc. Many of these were the “losers” you speak of. Did God help them?-Nope. The truth is that I think today people are spoiled by how good we have it. Most serious contagious diseases are either cured or can be treated. Scientist and engineers have designed countless things that make our life safe and easy. Except for some third world countries most people are safe from evil bully dictators because of the strong military of the United States.

When something good happens it is easy to say “oh look God has blessed me” – no he hasn’t. You just have it good due to the hard work of brilliant people and a strong system of capitalism and free markets that work for the good of all. I think if most Christians of today were miraculously transported back in time, or to some primitive country neither they nor their faith would not last very long.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I think if most Christians of today were miraculously transported back in time, or to some primitive country neither they nor their faith would not last very long.

My family is natively from some primitive country. I visited that last summer for the first time in over 20 years!! There people might do religion differently than we do here. They might participate in all-night prayer vigils with singing, dancing, and preaching, and still have lower expectations for God than we do here. I also personally saw Deliverance Ministries where it appeared that people were shaken by the spirit, so perhaps the spiritual warfare is more open there. Maybe even in the primitive countries, the challenge is more so what to believe and why to cling to Catholicism with the exclusion of witch-doctors, etc. than whether or not to believe at all.

Life might just be so dangerous/unsteady that you cling to anything that offers hope. When even the engineering graduates of the top universities can’t find jobs because the system is riddled with ineffiiency and corruption, complete and total reliance on self to the exclusion of any possibility of divine intervention may not be as a hot of a prospect as it is here. Maybe the saying holds true about it being rare to find an atheist in a foxhole, when there is little to no disadvantage from believing and possibly a help, why not believe? Maybe that might have something to do with the fact that Governor Bobby Jindal, a devout Catholic, takes the lead in having a faith-life and sharing his testimony with confidence, even with Evangelicals.

When you read one of the many miracles written about in the New York Times, query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E4D81738F93BA35757C0A96F958260 e.g. the appearance of the Mother of the Word to the Rwandans in the (1970s??) to warn them of an upcoming “river of blood” if they did not change their ways perhaps there are at least two ways to interpret this in light of the Rwandan Genocide. 1) She didn’t do enough- she should have saved us not just warned a few schoolchildren 2) At least we had a warning so we have a fighting chance to prevent something like this from happening next time. BLESSED ARE YOU MOTHER OF THE WORD!!

As for science, sometimes I wonder why the Judeo-Christian world has far excelled the rest of the world in science. In my other country, we even have a word to represent our amazement at the scientific progress of the West. Then I read this article Why Judaism Rejected Homosexuality catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0003.html suggesting that the Judeo-Christian moral laws restricted sexuality, allowing people to have the time to develop science and preventing the idolatry of males. Since I know cultures where many people are in polygamous marriages and who used to, but no longer do, marriage practices that were degrading to the women - I do not know if the thesis in the article is true, but the logic appeals to me in explaining why life is easier in some places, particularly the Judeo-Christian world, especially for women, than others and makes science for me perhaps another reason to glorify God. Maybe if we think of God’s time span as a 2,000 year time span instead of a 2 year time span, his ways might be less confusing and hidden. Maybe if we think that he chooses to work through suffering we might be amazed that entire nations are founded on a belief in the divnity of some random guy who spent 30 years hanging out with his mother, 3 years doing public miracles, and then died!! We consider him greater than Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, or Abraham Lincoln and the greatest controversies arise related to this God? For his Crucifixion? Maybe thats a miracle in and of itself.

Hey, Maybe as always, I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about!! Thank you for your kindness in continuing this dialogue with me Kuzuchi Happy upcoming New Years Day!!

St. Therese of Liseux, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Maximilian Maria, St. Louis Mary de Montfort, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, children of Fatima, His Holiness Pope John Paul II, St. Martin de Porres, St. Josephine Bakhita, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, St. Dominic, St. Padre Pio, Archangel Gabriel, Archangel Michael, all the holy angels and saints, we humbly beg you that you petition the Mother of the Word for us!!

May the Holy Spirit through the Mother of the Word grant us the graces that we desperately need, particularly openness to the workings of the Holy Spirit!! May the LOVE and MERCY of the Sacred Heart of Jesus overwhelm our hearts, now and always!! May the WONDERS of the Mother of the Word come to our aid!!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[Michael_David]

Look in history and you will see that through the ages millions have died from plagues, famines, droughts, diseases, etc. Many of these were the “losers” you speak of. Did God help them?-Nope.

Well now, let’s see… everyone that is born will die. How, when or why is left to time.

Perhaps it’s like the Parable of the Good Shepherd… you remember that one, don’t you? Where He left the 99 and went to find the 1 that went astray. What did the 99 do while He was gone? Did they wander… or stay put? How long was He gone looking for that 1? But He did find it and free it and carried it back.

Perhaps it is that ratio that matters here. One in a hundred have the Shepherd’s help… the other 99 have not.

And if you recall that Adam’s/Eve’s sin caused death to all… but Christ’s Passion/Death brought life to all (that believe). There is that Faith thing again, we keep running into it.

In the final draw, being on deaths door (with time to think), where is one’s Faith/belief going to be? A miracle to stay alive and beat this bug against all odds, or in God’s Mercy and Kindness to help us into His Kingdom? No matter how short or long we live… that time will come. Even if we beat it once, or twice, maybe the third strike, we are out.

Has the Shepherd been away so long that you think He has abandoned you? Remember, you are OK, not in deep doo-doo like the 1 is. Is He still your Shepherd? Do you still know His voice? Or are you wandering away (loosing Faith), not heeding His voice but not in deep enough doo-doo to cry out either.

Faith is the element here, and that does not always mean more of THIS life on earth… but rather, more life lived with Him. Have you ever known any terminally ill people? They know their time is short, they have been blessed to know it is coming (and have time to think)? What is their attitude, demeanor, state of mind? They have a PEACE to die for, and are willing to go when it happens. Is that Faith? Is that Belief? It is these people that have comforted me in their passing, not the other way around. They had more Grace in the last moments then I could muster still blessed with more of this life on earth. I believe these have found the Faith to know why this life was given to us in the first place. How often have I heard someone ask, why am I here? What is my purpose? Those terminal KNOW why and what!

Perhaps one day you will be the 1 in a 100, and He will come looking for you. Will Faith still be with you? Or will the cares of this world have smothered it?

 

[Kuzushi]

Perhaps it’s like the Parable of the Good Shepherd… you remember that one, don’t you? Where He left the 99 and went to find the 1 that went astray. What did the 99 do while He was gone? Did they wander… or stay put? How long was He gone looking for that 1? But He did find it and free it and carried it back.

I honestly don’t see how that argument is relevant to what I have been saying. I have wondered why ANYONE should make prayers of petition when it does not seem they will go any good. Any answered prayer is a miracle since it is, by definition, an intervention by a supernatural being, i.e. God, in a mortal human’s life. Therefore we should see things like the restoration of cut off limbs and other magic. Since this is not the case I doubt that ANY prayers are answered.

Have you ever known any terminally ill people? They know their time is short, they have been blessed to know it is coming (and have time to think)? What is their attitude, demeanor, state of mind? They have a PEACE to die for, and are willing to go when it happens.

I think that is what happens on TV or maybe that has been YOUR experience, but from what I have seen such deaths are slow, filled with agony and the poor person begging for more morphine to stop the constant pain. Every breath becomes an effort filled gasp, and the nights seem to last forever. There is no peace till AFTER they are dead. But yes, you are right that they are willing to go, but only because living is so terrible. The reality is that such circumstances have nothing to do with peace as you mention.

 

[Michael_David]

I honestly don’t see how that argument is relevant to what I have been saying. I have wondered why ANYONE should make prayers of petition when it does not seem they will go any good. Any answered prayer is a miracle since it is, by definition, an intervention by a supernatural being, i.e. God, in a mortal human’s life. Therefore we should see things like the restoration of cut off limbs and other magic. Since this is not the case I doubt that ANY prayers are answered.

I’m not talking about “magic”, rather help in a time of need… not want nor desire nor fame nor fortune, but NEED. And this with all due faith that He can and will IF HE wants… not what I want. It is I that am to be ‘obedient’ to Him, He is not my servant… I am His! Of course I can always ask, but He can also say no. And prayers then further His purpose for me here… and He grants them… sometimes.

I think that is what happens on TV or maybe that has been YOUR experience, but from what I have seen such deaths are slow, filled with agony and the poor person begging for more morphine to stop the constant pain. Every breath becomes an effort filled gasp, and the nights seem to last forever. There is no peace till AFTER they are dead. But yes, you are right that they are willing to go, but only because living is so terrible. The reality is that such circumstances have nothing to do with peace as you mention.

It is not TV I am talking about, it is in real life/death I’m referring to. I have seen/befriended quit a few that were terminal and while living their last 6 months, 3 months, 2 weeks, it was not morphine and constant pain, that was usually just the last day or so. It is that Grace and acceptance of the inevitable that has rubbed off on me from them. It’s when God answered no to their wants here on earth, but said yes to the need of their soul. PEACE follows… and shows and is seen and is felt by those around them. There is Peace before death if the soul is ready. It’s that God-Given Peace that no one can take away… because it’s between God and them. And this comes from Faith to Belief to Knowing to Fact. Perhaps on a very deep level of existence, but it emulates to those who are near… and sometimes those at a distance (they know when things happen but cannot explain how they know). It is that thing called Love that spans time and distance, and as God is Love, those in-tune are also in the loop. It is the sound of His voice that is heard.

Yes, I believe you are searching for something. The question to ask is, will you recognize it when you find it??? Or will you pass it by because it isn’t what you thought it would be? What will it be? Do you have any idea? How will you know when you found it… if you don’t know what you are looking for? Here we bumped into that Faith word again. Funny how that happens.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

from what I have seen such deaths are slow, filled with agony and the poor person begging for more morphine to stop the constant pain. Every breath becomes an effort filled gasp, and the nights seem to last forever. There is no peace till AFTER they are dead. But yes, you are right that they are willing to go, but only because living is so terrible. The reality is that such circumstances have nothing to do with peace as you mention.

Kuzushi, hopefully I haven’t offended you. Maybe you might let me know if I do so. In the hopes of helping, there might be scientific evidence that prayer and religion produce positive benefits. The Canadian Mental Health Association reports that scientific research shows “there is now good evidence that spiritual practices are association with improved health” and that “if we analyze a large group of people with a particular disease, the religious tend to do better.” cmha.bc.ca/files/12.pdf The New York Times also reports that religious people, prayer, and meditation all improve self-control, and that there is a difference in the effects of these things based on believers who do these things and nonbelievers who do these things - nonbelievers, even when participating in the same activities, do not reap the same rewards.. In fact, the psychologist reporting on this study states that “professionally, I’m a fan. But personally, I don’t get on the field much” which, in my perhaps incorrect understanding, he sees the scientific evidence but simply doesn’t like engaging in it himself, is not spiritual himself. nytimes.com/2008/12/30/science/30tier.html?_r=2&em Even the study that I posted earlier on the miracle was analyzed by a non-believer trying to debunk it but unsuccessful at that effort.

As for pain in deaths, remember we (or perhaps only me ) are not saying all people experience the same peace at death, we are saying that some of the people who are most and union with Christ, with the will of God according to Christ’s pleasure sometimes experience the grace, gift of inner peace. St. Peter tried to walk on water to find Christ and started to fall, despite all his years with Christ, when he lost faith. Maybe the point that Michael David was making when he talked about 100 lost sheep and the sheperd going out to find 1, was that perhaps 99% of the time God lets us handle things on our own because he thinks we can survive and even our pain will work for his good, or he wants to use us to take care of each other, but 1% of the time he brings in special intervention because that 1% all that human intervention in the world might not be enough. I don’t know though!! Feel free to ignore me.

1. A certain person in our ward was beginning to die. Admist terrible tortures, she was dying for three days, sometimes regaining consciousness. Everyone in the ward was praying for her. I longed to go to her, but Mother Superior had forbidden me to go to visit the dying, so I prayed for that poor soul in my room. But when I heard that she was still in agony, and there was no saying how long it was going to take, I suddenly felt inspired in my soul and said to the Lord, “Jesus if all I do is pleasing to you, I ask You, as evidence, to let that soul stop suffering and pass on immediately to her happy eternity.” A few minutes later I learned that the person had passed away so peacefully and quickly that they did not even have time to light the candle.

saint-faustina.com/Diary/DMIMS19.shtml

unborn babies, St. Josephine Bakhita, St. Martin de Porres, Venerable Pierre Touissant, St. Edith Stein, St. Lucy of Fatima, St. Therese of Liseux, St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Louis Mary de Montfort, St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, St. Maximilian Maria, St. Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, St. Padre Pio, St. Dominic, St. Francis of Assisi, Mother Teresa, Archbishop Oscar Romero, His Holiness Pope John Paul II, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, St. Rose of Lima, St. Catherine of Sienna, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. John, St. Paul, St. Peter, St. Stephen, St. Luke, St. Peter, St. Timothy, St. Matthew, St. Mark, St. Esther, St. Jacob, St. Joseph, St. Jonah, St. Dympha, St. Maria de Goretti, Archangel Raphael, Archangel Michael, Archangel Gabriel, all the angels and saints, pray to the Mother of the Word for us!!

May the Holy Spirit through the Mother of the Word shower on us the graces that we most desperately need, such as forgiveness, an open heart, love, mercy, wisdom, and discernment!! May the LOVE and MERCY of the Sacred Heart of Jesus come to our aid now and always!! May the WONDERS of the Mother of the Word relieve our pain!!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Also, the personal experiences of people on these forums might help. I, myself, was once in a hospital for an extended period of time. I noticed that my faith and prayer helped me to cope and get out as well as that many other people in the hopsital while I was there who seemed to perhaps be secretly giving in to anger, bitterness, or despair might have been helped to have hope by my faith.

Many people on these forums are quietly grieving. JReducation lost his wife and two sons in a car accident some years ago and suffers from leukemia now; perhaps he quietly testifies to the effect of his faith in helping him cope from his pain now. I don’t know. Bruno Shultz also lost a son, and now writes posts and witnesses to others telling them how it was his faith that helps him cope. littleone’s daughter was murdered by someone who then hung himself in front of littleone’s children, a woman prevented littleone from looking after his five children because of jealousy and these children were then sexually molested as a result. In fact, one beloved child of God here, xAlisonx attempted suicide, was in the hospital, and suffers from deep self-hate. Yet, these people have not been defeated; but have hope, love, and happiness because of their faith!! xAlisonx just shared after a recent bout with the depression nearly as bad as it has ever been, “there is light after darkness.” All of these people that I mentioned frequently post here and share here so maybe you might contact them for questions. Maybe our Catholic faith does not teach that there is no Cross, simply that there will one day be Resurrection when the Crucifixion is over.

In fact, our most recent His Holiness Pope John Paul II "was in third grade when his mother died; his only sibling, an older brother, died three years later; he discovered his father dead on the floor in their apartment. Karol Wojityla was an orphan at twenty. Nor where his troubles were not limited to loss of his whole family. The Nazis overran his country, and he did hard labor in a stone quarry. During the Nazi rule, many of his friends were killed, some in concentration camps, others shot by the Gestapo for the crime of studying for the priesthood. He was run down by a German truck and nearly died. When the Nazis finally let his beloved Poland, he and his countrymen again came under the rule of a dictator when the iron boot of Joseph Stalin replaced that of Adolf Hitler. Later in life, his beloved Church was torn apart by the storm that followed the Second Vatican Council. At sixty, an Islamic assassin shot him in his own front yard, and he nearly died again. As an old man, he suffered from debilitating Parkinson’s disease that rendered him immobile, distored his physical apearance, and finally took his ability to speak. Pope John Paul II knew about human suffering.

Yet, as was evident to all who saw him, he was a man overflowing with joy. He experienced the mystery of suffering and the affliction endured by every single human person, but he also discovered the meaning of suffering. He had found an “answer” to the problem of pain.

unborn babies, St. Josephine Bakhita, St. Martin de Porres, St. Pierre Touissant, St. Edith Stein, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Dominic, St. Louis Mary de Montfort, St. Maximilian Maria, St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, St. Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, St. Mary Faustina, St. Therese of Liseux, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Padre Pio, St. Dympha, St. Maria de Goretti, Mother Teresa, His Holiness Pope John Paul II, all the angels and saints, Archangel Gabriel, Archangel Raphiel, Archangel Michael, we humbly beg you to petition the Mother of the Word for us!!

May the Holy Spirit through the Mother of the Word grant us the graces that we most desperately need, particularly an abundance of love and faith!! May the LOVE and MERCY of the Sacred Heart of Jesus overflow in our lives both now and always!! May the WONDERS of the Mother of the Word come to our aid!!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Fulbright scholar Christopher Kaczor analyzes Victor Franke’s book Man’s Search for Meaning describing his horrifying experiences in Nazi concentration camps. He notes that

although the prisoners were in the same material circumstances–the most horrible imaginable–they did not all react in the same way. Some prisoners killed themselves by walking into electrified fences; others clung to life and even found joy despite the atrocities occurring around them daily. What made the difference? One way to put it is that man can endure anything if he has a reson (logos) to live. Conversely, man can endure nothing if he does not.

A source of joy is found in the overcoming of the sense of the uselessness of suffering, a feeling that is sometimes very strongly rooted in human suffering. This feeling not only consumes the person interiorly but seems to make him a burden to others. The person feels condemned to receive help and assistance from others and at the same time seems useless to himself. The discovery of the salvific meaning of suffering in union with Christ transforms this depressing feeling. Faith in sharing in the suffering of Christ brings with it the interior certainty that the suffering person “completes what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions”, the certainty that in the spiritual dimension of the work of redemption he is serving, like Christ, the salvation of his brothers and sisters. Therefore he is carrying out an irreplaceable service. (SD 27)

Christ gives us a reason to live, however much we suffer.

St. Josephine Bakhita was a Sudanese slave kidnapped, mutilated, and sold into slavery. Her fright and horrible brandings were so painful that she forgot her own name! Bakhita, not the name she was given at birth, means “fortunate.” She was released by a kind Catholic family and became a Catholic nun. The rest of her life she suffered from mental illness due to the pain she experienced in slavery, she would have painful flashbacks and say “Please, loosen the chains…they are heavy!” Mary Most Holy freed her from all pain. Her last words were, “Our Lady! Our Lady!” http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/ns_lit_doc_20001001_giuseppina-bakhita_en.html Yet, she had Joy! That is why His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI concentrated on her life in one of his two encyclicals Spe Salve: On Christian Hope vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html

Blessed Louis Martin wanted to be a monk, but was rejected due to his lack of knowledge of Latin and became a watchmaker instead. He fell in love with Blessed Marie-Azelie Guerin, a lacemaker who wanted to be a nun but could not because she was too sickly. They had nine children but only five daughters suvived infancy. In 1877, when St. Therese of Liseux was 4, Blessed Marie-Azelie Guerin died of breast cancer. In 1889, Blessed Louis Martin suffered two paralyzing strokes by cerebral arteriosclerois and was hospitalized for three years at the Bon Sauveur asylum in Caen. In 1892, he returned to Lisieux where his daughters Celine and Leonie looked after him devotedly until his death on July 29, 1894 at the chateau La Musse near Evreux.

St. Therese of Liseux’s mother died when she was 4, her father hospitalized for insanity when she was 16, and she became a Carmelite nun. She wanted to be a missionary but was too sickly and died of tuberculosis at 24. She focused on Heaven while on earth, in fact she is quoted to have said, “I will spend my Heaven doing good on Earth.” She struggled with thoughts of suicide as well and said she would have committed suicide if not for her faith. Now she died in 1897. At her deathbed she is reported to have said, “I have reached the point of not being able to suffer any more; because all suffering is sweet to me.”

unborn babies, St. Josephine Bakhita, St. Martin de Porres, St. Pierre Touissant, St. Edith Stein, St. Therese of Liesux, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, St. Maximilian Maria, St. Louis Mary de Montfort, St. Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, St. Dominic, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Padre Pio, St. Dympha, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, St. Maria de Goretti, His Holiness Pope John Paul II, all the angels and saints, we humbly beg you to pray to the Mother of the Word for us!

May the Holy Spirit through the Mother of the Word grant us the graces that we most desperately need, particularly an overabundance of strength, patience, forgiveness, love and mercy! May the LOVE and MERCY of the Sacred Heart of Jesus overflow into our lives! May the WONDERS of the Mother of the Word come to our aid!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[Nino]

Faith is easy to obtain…one has to only ask his/her creator for it…but watch out…that will mean you are no longer PC…you are an enemy of the new world order…the almighty state ,the caring state,the nanny state will be quite angry with you and call you a ‘hater’.a ‘bigot’ and ‘intolerant’ person even while they toss stones at you and your just on your knees praying for …well lets see…that the young pregnant unmarried girl going into that abortion center,stops and thinks it over and does not go in…see the picture? so Faith is the willingness to suffer for goodness sake…hey I like that…for goodness sake!!! Make a small mark on a slip of paper…that is now…pick up the pencil again and make a very looooong line across that paper…that is eternity…it seems no contest.I choose that long unpopular line…the rest is up to you …more after the commercial break…

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Mother Teresa’s birth name was Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu; she renamed herself after Therese. She was a British citizen of Albanian descent. Yet, she won a Noble Peace Prize in 1979, India’s highest honor the Bharat Ratna (“Jewel of India”) in 1980, and was popularly voted the greatet Indian since the country’s independence in 1947 (excluding Gandhi from consideration) by Indian magazine Outlook in 2002. Maybe its a miracle that Therese’s missionary dream lived in Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa’s book Words of Love is similar to the autobiography of St. Therese of Liseux The Story of a Soul gutenberg.org/etext/16772

Blessed Louis Martin, one miracle has been attributed to the joint intercession of St. Therese of Liseux’s parents, so despite being comitted to an insane asylum, GOD STILL LOVES HIM!! Did Therese know that a Pope would call her the “greatest saint of modern times” when she lived her life of faith?

Saint Maximilian Maria studied philosophy, theology, mathematics, and physics as a college student, before earning a doctorate in philosophy and a doctorate in theology in Rome, while suffering from tuberculosis. He became a priest, changed his name to Maria from Kolbe to venerate the Mother of the Word, sheltered 2,000 Jews in his friary during the Holocaust, and when taken to the Auschwitz concentration camp offered to die in place of another man since that man had family and he did not as an abstinent fiar. During his time in the cell, he led the men in songs and prayer. Finally, after three weeks of dehydration and starvation, he was injected with carbolic acid and died. He is reported on the Jewish Virtual Library as Righteous Among the Nations. It shows that no matter how dire the situation God can continue to strengthen us. jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Kolbe.html.He founded Slaves of the Immaculata, www.consecration.com. More information: acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2005/09/st-maximilian-kolbe.html

In Auschwitz, he was punished for his kindness but kept on being kind. Did he have any idea that his kindness would be noted by someone who escaped and shared with the world? Did he know that the prisoner whose life he saved would later testify in front of His Holiness Pope John Paul II so a poor dying friar in Auschwitz would be recognized as “the patron saint of our difficult century” and St. Maximilian Maria villages would spread up around America and Canada (ww.consecration.com or www.miyouth.org) for people to remember him, pray the Rosary, and advocate for the pro-life movement.

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to seperate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Romans 8:38-39

Maybe Christ asked the same questions that you are asking now.

Psalm 22
For the leader; according to “The deer of the dawn.” A psalm of David.
My God, my God, why have you abandoned me? Why so far from my call for help, from my cries of anguish?
My God, I call by day, but you do not answer; by night, but I have no relief.
Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the glory of Israel.
In you our ancestors trusted; they trusted and you rescued them.
To you they cried out and they escaped; in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

But I am a worm, hardly human, scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
All who see me mock me, they curl their lips and jeer, they shake their heads at me:
“You relied on the LORD-let him deliver you, if he loves you, let him rescue you.”
Yet you drew me forth from the womb, made me safe at my mother’s breast.
Upon you I was thrust from the womb; since birth you are my God.
Do not stay far from me, for trouble is near, and there is no one to help. Rest here. usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm22.htm

unborn babies, St. Josephine Bakhita, St. Martin de Porres, St. Pierre Touissant, St. Edith Stein, St. Therese of Liseux, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Lucy of Fatima, His Holiness Pope John Paul, Mother Teresa, Archbishop Oscar Romero, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Dominic, St. Padre Pio, St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, St. Maximilian Maria, St. Louis Mary de Montfort, St. Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, St. Gemma, St. Dympha, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, all the popes, angels, and saints, Archangel Michael, Archangel Raphael, Archangel Gabriel, may you pray to the Mother of the Word for us!!

May the Holy Spirit through Mary grant us the graces that we need!! May the LOVE and MERCY of the Sacred Heart of Jesus help us!! May the WONDERS of the Mother of the Word help us!!

*Hail May, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[AveSantaMaria]

God Does Heal Amputees

We know only that he has been a fantastic intercessor – stories of his miracles, both during and subsequent to his death, are absolutely legion – and after his canonization, that intercession will grow. Of all Padre Pio’s healings, one of the most remarkable may have been a blind girl from the Palermo area named Gemma DiGiorgio. “I had no pupils in my eyes,” said Gemma in 1971, several years after Padre Pio’s death. “I had no sight at all. When I was three months old, my mother took me to a very famous eye doctor in Palermo. He told her that, without pupils, I would never be able to see.”

Some claimed that she may have had pupils, but that her birth defect was so severe they were not recognized as such. Whatever the case, in 1946, when the girl was seven, a nun took it upon herself to write Padre Pio on her behalf and received a note saying that the girl should be brought to Padre Pio in San Giovanni Rotundo. That’s exactly what Gemma’s grandmother did: brought the girl to see the famous monk, who heard the child’s first Confession and gave her first Communion – then made the sign of the Cross on her eyes.

After the blessing, Gemma was able to see. It’s a fact that is beyond question, confirmed by amazed doctors. Did she really lack pupils? Or was her entire eye one large pupil (making it seem that way)? We know only that there was a severe defect and that although the physical defect remained unchanged, afterward Gemma was able to see normally.

More astounding still may be the thoroughly-documented cure of a construction worker named Giovanni Savino, who was severely injured on February 15, 1949, in a dynamie mishap. When Dr. Guglielmo Sanguinetti, a physician, and Padre Raffaele, another Capuchin, and Father Dominic Meyer rushed to the injured man’s side, "all three men noted that among Savino’s numerous injuries, his right eye was gone entirely. They agreed that “the socket was empty” reports biographer Bernard Ruffin in Padre Pio: The True Story.

Other doctors confirmed that they eye was completely annihilated and the other one badly damaged.

It looked like Savino was also going to be totally blind.

For three days the worker lay on a hospital bed with his head and face bandaged. When a surgeon entered the room three days later, Savino reported that Padre Pio had visited him – something Savino recognized because he had detected the beautiful aroma so often reported around the priest.

A week later, at about one a.m. on February 25, 1949, Savino feld a slap on the right side of his face – the side where the eye was completely gone.

“I asked, 'Who touched me?” testified Savino. “There was nobody. Again I smelled the aroma of Padre Pio. It was beautiful.”

When later the opthalmologist – an atheist – came to examine the remaining eye, there was shock. “To their amazement,” writes Ruffin, “the doctors found that his shattered face was fully healed and covered with new skin. Savino, however, was most delighted at the fact that he could see. ‘I can see you!’ he said excitedly to the eye specialist.”

As indeed, as is medically documented, the doctor saw to his ‘utter astonishment’ that Savino had his right eye back. Somehow the eye had materialized. (“Now I believe too,” exclaimed the doctor, “because of what my own hands have touched!”)

As Ruffin notes, it’s one thing when diseases disappear, this is exciting. It’s tremendous to hear of diabetes or arthritis or even cancer leaving a person. “For a missing part of the body to be restored; however, is another matter,” noted the expert biographer.

spiritdaily.net/AmazingPio_cures.htm

St. Padre Pio, who said, “The Rosary is The WEAPON”, said as many as 90 rosaries a day in a special form for which he received ecclesiastical permission. Father Thomas Euteneur, President of Human Life International, cites this in The Rosary Batters the Gates of Hell hli.org/sl_2008-10-03.html

St. Padre Pio had Stigmata, the wounds of Christ on his hands, feet, and side did not sleep, almost did not eat, and was beaten daily by the devil. Perhaps God doesn’t heal more amputees in this world because of our lack of faith. Perhaps we aren’t willing to give up our lives for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven to the extent that people such as St. Padre Pio did and thus Christ, Mary, and St. Joseph do not fill us with their power.
mostholyfamilymonastery.com/padre_pio.php

May Christ, Mary, and St. Joseph greatly and abundantly bless and keep you, open your eyes, free them from temptations, and change Saul into St. Paul in ourselves!! :extrahappy:

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Information on devoting oneself to the Sacred Heart of Jesus through the Immaculate Heart of Mary:
Online Adoration of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament louisville-catholic.net/WebCameras/AdorationChapel/tabid/825/Default.aspx
True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin fisheaters.com/totalconsecrationmontfort.html
**Secret of the Rosary ** montfort.org.uk/Writings/Rosary.html
Reflections on True Devotion to Mary by His Holiness Pope John Paul II http://www.michaeljournal.org/montfort.htm
**The Glories of Mary, ** by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, one of the 33 Doctors of the Catholic Church, explains Hail Holy Queen http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories.htm
On the Dolors of Mary by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, one of the 33 Doctors of the Catholic Church, explains the sufferings of Our Lady http://writer.zoho.com/public/immaculate/Seven-dolors
Marialis Cultus (Apostolic Exhortation for the Right Ordering and Development of Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary of His Holiness, February 2, 1974 by His Holiness Pope Paul VI ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6MARIAL.HTM
Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus en.wikisource.org/wiki/Devotion_to_the_Sacred_Heart_of_Jesus#FIRST_POINT._.E2.80.94_The_ardent_desire_Jesus_Christ_feels_to_be_with_us.
Divine Mercy Chaplet ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm
Rosary Confraternity Enrollment rosary-center.org/nconform.htm (As Pope Leo XIII said in his encyclical on the Confraternity, *“Whenever a person fulfills his obligation of reciting the Rosary according to the rule of the Confraternity, he includes in his intentions all its members and they render him the same service many times over.” * Each member includes deceased fellow members as well; and thus he knows that in turn he will be included in the prayers of hundreds of thousands both now and hereafter.
Cathechism of the Catholic Church vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
Litany of Humility ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/humility.htm
**Litany of the Blessed Virgin ** intermirifica.org/Mary/marylitany.htm
**Cathechis of the Popes on Mary, Mother of God, ** catechesisofthepopes.wikispaces.com/Mary
Mystical City of God themostholyrosary.com/mystical-city.htm
In Defense of The City of God Mystica Civitate Dei: dailycatholic.org/issue/05Jun/jun10tim.htm - to summarize the research of three priests on the official decision of the Holy Roman Catholic Church regarding The Mystical City of God by Venerable Mary of Jesus of Agreda and to ascertain thereby whether it is permitted for anyone of any authority whatsoever to forbid the reading of this extraordinary book.
The Way of the Cross by St. Josemaria Escriva escrivaworks.org/book/the_way_of_the_cross-point-4.htm
**Rosarium Virginis Mariae ** by His Holiness Pope John Paul II: To the Bishops, Clergy, and Faithful on the Most Holy Rosary vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html
The Violence of Love by Archbishop Oscar Romero plough.com/ebooks/ViolenceOfLove.html

 

[Kuzushi]

The Canadian Mental Health Association reports that scientific research shows “there is now good evidence that spiritual practices are association with improved health” and that “if we analyze a large group of people with a particular disease, the religious tend to do better.”

Sure, I believe these studies, but it does not prove that these things were actually done by a God. This could very easily be the placebo effect and is a testament to the power of the human mind. These things do not prove your case for Christianity at all. Many of these people may have odd new age beliefs where they find hope in worshiping a pile of rocks.

This is precisely why I stressed the regrowth of limbs. There is no way that positive thinking could violate the laws of physics and make something out of nothing. Only a God could do that. All these so called miracles people credit to God are mostly fiction.

I scanned many of your post and I can tell you obviously read a lot, but all these references are from Catholic organizations. These groups are biased and will say just about anything is a “miracle” or “act of God.” I am looking for actual, unbiased, proven accounts of cases where severed limbs are restored. If prayers really are answered then there should be many accounts. Guess what? There simply aren’t any. This leads me to conclude that prayer changes nothing. There is not reason for you to continue the search. Although I have to admit you are extremely determined and prolific.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Sure, I believe these studies, but it does not prove that these things were actually done by a God. This could very easily be the placebo effect and is a testament to the power of the human mind. These things do not prove your case for Christianity at all. Many of these people may have odd new age beliefs where they find hope in worshiping a pile of rocks.

No, those studies only show that belief in God works. Positivity and spirituality (faith without God) do not work according to science. It cannot be a placebo effect - otherwise spirituality would also work instead of just faith in God. Furthermore, these are completely non religious scientists doing the study.

This is precisely why I stressed the regrowth of limbs. There is no way that positive thinking could violate the laws of physics and make something out of nothing. Only a God could do that. All these so called miracles people credit to God are mostly fiction.

The above St. Padre Pio miracle in the 1900s had “regrowth of limbs,” from my interpreation - an eye. Maybe I am understanding this incorrectly and you might read the account and let me know what I am missing.

I scanned many of your post and I can tell you obviously read a lot, but all these references are from Catholic organizations. These groups are biased and will say just about anything is a “miracle” or “act of God.” I am looking for actual, unbiased, proven accounts of cases where severed limbs are restored. If prayers really are answered then there should be many accounts. Guess what? There simply aren’t any. This leads me to conclude that prayer changes nothing. There is not reason for you to continue the search. Although I have to admit you are extremely determined and prolific.

It’s important to read thorougly in addition to scanning. Otherwise, one might let preconceived notions prevent one from seeing, understanding, and believing, the evidence. I posted two references on miracles and the connection between faith and scientifically positive activities from non Catholic and non Christian and non Religious sources. In fact, one of the articles is trying to debunk the Our Lady of Guadalupe miracle using every means imaginable. He thinks he succeeds. If you read it, it is stronger testament to the power of God that it strikes me as a failure and strengthens my faith just by reading all the weak straw-man arguments to debunk that Guadalupe miracle.

There are many accounts of prayer answered. By the way, I reconverted to Catholicism because my prayers were answered. So I can’t prove my experience to you… you don’t know who I am that you should believe my experience but given that I’ve seen it I am willing to give others the benefit of the doubt in their accounts. Also, I think this is a truth - it is impossible to prove God does not exist. For all one knows, he might exist and not be answering prayers. It is possible to prove that God does exist. Proving God does not exist is like proving that there is no other planet with human life. Who knows? We can prove that there is one if we see it. But if we do not see it, it does not mean that it does not exist.

And as for religious biased sources Since when did the New York Times and other newspapers like this become religious and biased?

May Christ, Mary, and St. Joseph bless you, keep you, hold you, love you, comfort you, cradle you, and reveal to you themselves!!! :clapping:

 

[Kuzushi]

It cannot be a placebo effect - otherwise spirituality would also work instead of just faith in God. Furthermore, these are completely non religious scientists doing the study.

Why can’t it be a placebo effect? These studies only “prove” that faith in something works. It does not have to be faith in the “Catholic God.” I have seen these things reviewed on shows like Oprah where the “believers” basically create their own god. You even see this in things like alcoholics anonymous where they believe in a “higher power.” You are far too eager to accept these studies. If you look into them they are also used by new agers, those who believe in reincarnation, wicca, etc.

The above St. Padre Pio miracle in the 1900s had “regrowth of limbs,” from my interpreation - an eye.

Oh come on…why do you continue to accept these obscure accounts from prior centuries and in far away lands? Haven’t you also wondered why UFO pictures are always fuzzy, wobbly, and the witnesses are no longer around? Again, your eagerness to belive is getting in the way of objective facts.

In fact, one of the articles is trying to debunk the Our Lady of Guadalupe miracle using every means imaginable. He thinks he succeeds. If you read it, it is stronger testament to the power of God that it strikes me as a failure and strengthens my faith just by reading all the weak straw-man arguments to debunk that Guadalupe miracle.

As I said above, you WANT to believe so you choose to do so. It does not mean you are right.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Why can’t it be a placebo effect? These studies only “prove” that faith in something works. It does not have to be faith in the “Catholic God.” I have seen these things reviewed on shows like Oprah where the “believers” basically create their own god. You even see this in things like alcoholics anonymous where they believe in a “higher power.” You are far too eager to accept these studies. If you look into them they are also used by new agers, those who believe in reincarnation, wicca, etc.

If it was a placebo effect, it would work for everyone who had a strong faith and all the people who employed “positive thinking” and not just everyone who had a strong religious faith in God. It doesn’t have to be the “Catholic” God, who said it did? There’s only one God. He can accept any prayers that he wants. Not even the Catholic Church teaches that only Catholics are saved. That’s a Protestant belief. There is such a thing called invicible ignorance.

Oh come on…why do you continue to accept these obscure accounts from prior centuries and in far away lands? Haven’t you also wondered why UFO pictures are always fuzzy, wobbly, and the witnesses are no longer around? Again, your eagerness to belive is getting in the way of objective facts.

1971 and 1949 are prior centuries? Italy is a far away land? Then what will you accept? Is this a requirement that only American miracles worked in the 2000s count and any other miracle worked elsewhere in the world is invalid?

I can’t prove to you an American miracle, though I’ve seen some myself. I can show you an American demonic experience. Govenor Bobby Jindal, Rhodes Scholar, Louisiana Governor, devout Catholic. **His demonic experience: ** newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=1294-jindal

As I said above, you WANT to believe so you choose to do so. It does not mean you are right.

I’ve seen it. If you had seen an amputee being healed, someone else might not have seen it and might think you are imagining things. You might have no proof to prove to that doubter that you are not imagining things. Yet, once you’ve seen it, you’ve seen it. You are willing to believe what other people say. Firstly, you are kind and you give people the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming that they are trying to trick you. Why would they be colluding to lie anyways? I tend to assume innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. Secondly, when you’ve seen it, you wonder if it could happen to me - why not them?