Is faith a choice?

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
Where atheists have “borrowed” correct moral/ethical principles from God’s People, they are indeed Godly, but where they haven’t they are demonic

How can they be demonic when they do not believe in God or Satan?

Once again, you have to be careful of your relativism. It “fuzzies” the mind.

God and demons are objective realities. They don’t need to be believed in to be real. They simply ARE real.

Morality and ethics have been around LONG before Christianity came on the scene, so if anything it is Christianity that did the borrowing.

The Church (as the people of God all the way back to Adam) doesn’t claim to have invented “good” (which is the basis of morality and ethics). It is just the best source FOR determining good from evil.

God created everything good. God allowed the sub-creation of evil.

The Church is the best source of understanding about good and evil because only the Church is directly from God, created by God Himself, as all other “institutional traditions” are either developments of their listening to natural law and/or appropriations of the direct revelation from the Church, either before Christ or afterward.

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
It’s not a sin to be involved in the world, but to sin while doing so is, well, SINFUL!

Catholics are not puritans. We live IN the world but are not (citizens) OF the world.

Okay, I agree with that. When you are not condemning atheist to Hades you seem like a fairly stable guy.

Hades, sheol, was done away with by Christ.

People can only condemn themselves to hell.

Atheists, like everyone else, are “savable” fully until they’re not, and I have no idea when that cut-off point occurs.

And I’m only stable in that I don’t fall over NEARLY as much as I used to, as I now make a habit of wearing my “weeble” pants (including shoes).

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
The fact is that you were ill-formed as a Catholic because you are demonstrably anti-Catholic.

To have been (notice the tense) a well formed Catholic is to remain a well formed Catholic.

I think the Baptist call that “eternal security” and I know that is not a Catholic doctrine. I think you are on the verge of starting your own religion here. How can I be “anti-Catholic’ when I am indeed Catholic?

Are you saying that because I am pointing out what I see as some logical inconsistencies I am now some kind of heretic?

Your “logical inconsistencies” are not inconsistencies in the Church, but only in your logic.

Here’s a definition of heresy: Heresy.

To not believe, though not necessarily only doubt, what must be believed is to be a heretic.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”. “The right Christian faith consists in giving one’s voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are, therefore, two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity…; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ’s doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics.”

I am glad we are not in the old times or else you would have me burned at the stake.

Only if I was in charge of some temporal power and considered that your particular heresy (if you were a heretic) threatened the social order would I have you “coercively dealt with”, and I personally would find, if I at all could, a better way to deal with you than burning you at the stake.

Can’t you see that your attitude is exactly what atheist and those from other religions say is wrong with Christians?

They say we are wrong because they see their religions, which deal with “heretics” MUCH more harshly than do Catholics (I refuse to speak for other Christians), as being right.

They are wrong in that, but it is not for Catholics to use coercion to force people to agree with us in that.

The only reason that the “heterodox” are tolerated is because this is a vastly, though lukewarm, Christian society.

Were we “ruled” by anyone BUT the culturally Christian, dissent from the orthodox would be violently suppressed. Look at the world, and at history, and see what is to be seen.

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
I do appreciate your “devil’s advocate”-ness, and your intelligent (if incorrect) conversation, and am looking forward to hearing more from you around here!

Me too, but I think we probably have reached an impasse on this topic. I only put this out there wondering if someone else wondered about this.

Why is it that people think that “impasse” is a bad thing? It isn’t. It is reality.

When we can agree to disagree, and have made explicit our axiomatic beliefs, we have made ENORMOUS progress toward actually understanding each other.

It’s when people get massively defensive about making their axiomatic beliefs explicitly known that we have REAL trouble!

Those who won’t expose their basic beliefs DON’T HAVE basic beliefs, or have most likely very dangerous ones (to themselves and others).

Those are the folks I’m here to “press”. But, in a “nice” way, of course!

:shamrock2:

 

[Kuzushi]

Why SHOULD it happen? There obviously IS a logical reason that “this kind of thing” doesn’t happen much, if at all, these days, and most likely it’s because it would prematurely “stir the pot”

If God is supposedly shrinking tumors, taking away heart disease, helping jr. ace his math test, etc. then I think it is totally normal and appropriate to expect legs to be re-grown. I see that this is not occurring and make the logical conclusion that all these other “miracles” are not miracles at all. They are statistical anomalies, events that just occur in the normal course of events, or the result of strong positive thinking on the part of man. We humans are incapable of violating the physical laws of creating matter (an appendage) out of nothing no matter how strong our belief. The creator of the universe could certainly do it because he is omnipotent.

You look at the same facts and say well God must have intentionally created some delineation line for not performing such apparent miracles for unknown reasons. The problem with this theory is that it is not very logical and there is no basis for it in scripture, Catholic doctrine, or even church tradition. You just made it up. I suppose if one is unwilling to look outside the Christian made box this is the only conclusion one could use as a default. That does not make it logical.

You want (demand) that God prove Himself (to you) by more “evenly distributing” His miracles. That He won’t do this you see as some “disproof” of God.

I don’t find it suspicious at all that God would NOT give us what we don’t need, which is that we need FAITH and not PROOF.

You have made an observation for the umpteenth time that is not supported by the data. I never said I want, demand, or expect “proof.” I am only pointing out an illogical inconsistency with the Christian faith. There are MANY more inconsistencies, but I have focused upon this one. You can believe all the Christian theories you want and then seek the supporting data or you can take the intelligent approach and first look at objective data and then draw reasonable conclusions. The choice is yours.

Religion, especially true religion (that of the Church [Catholic]), requires that we first faithfully believe in hope of a good so as to GET proof, and not hope for proof so that we can get belief in faith.

I assume you meant to write “hope of a God.” Hope is inconclusive. I try to not hope for anything, but rather aggressively go after what is right. I could be wrong, but I do not think your above statement is true Catholic doctrine.

God and demons are objective realities. They don’t need to be believed in to be real. They simply ARE real.

Okay…but what has that got to do with you making a snap judgment and calling someone “demonic?”

Hades, sheol, was done away with by Christ.

People can only condemn themselves to hell.

No, you are wrong here too. Jesus did not do away with hell. He simply made it possible for forgiven sinners to enter the kingdom of heaven because he, the slaughtered innocent lamb, bore the punishment for us on the cross.

Only if I was in charge of some temporal power and considered that your particular heresy (if you were a heretic) threatened the social order would I have you “coercively dealt with”, and I personally would find, if I at all could, a better way to deal with you than burning you at the stake.

Somehow that does not make me feel any better. I guess I should thank God or maybe the Republic of the United States that you are not in charge.

Those are the folks I’m here to “press”. But, in a “nice” way, of course!

Unless I “threaten the social order.”

 

[AveSantaMaria]

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

If God is supposedly shrinking tumors, taking away heart disease, helping jr. ace his math test, etc. then I think it is totally normal and appropriate to expect legs to be re-grown. I see that this is not occurring and make the logical conclusion that all these other “miracles” are not miracles at all. They are statistical anomalies, events that just occur in the normal course of events, or the result of strong positive thinking on the part of man. We humans are incapable of violating the physical laws of creating matter (an appendage) out of nothing no matter how strong our belief. The creator of the universe could certainly do it because he is omnipotent.

Why does God not more frequently healing lost appendages? I do not know. One question to ask of you: Why should he want to do so, to violate the physical laws that he himself made?

Another question is: Why did God in the Old Testament, part the Red Sea, bring down manna from heaven, cause the walls of Jericho to come tumbling down, protect David, fortell the Messiah and yet not restore missing appendages as far as I know? Why did God in the New Testament, expel demons, raise Lazarus from the dead, ressurect himself (Jesus), feed five thousand with loaves and fishes, turn water into wine, heal people, and, as far as I know, only restore one appendage? When Jesus reattached the ear of the soldier that St. Peter cut off?

If we really truly want to find out, we must persist in prayer as Job did, when God allowed the devil to torment him and reduce him to nothing in property, family, and health. From The Secret of the Rosary, by St. Louis Mary de Montfort, Forty-Eighth Rose "5. As a fifth point I must add also perseverance in prayer. Only he will receive, will find and will enter who perseveres in asking, seeking and knocking. It is not enough to ask Almighty God for certain graces for a month, a year, ten or even twenty years; we must never tire of asking. We must keep on asking until the very moment of death, and even in this prayer which shows our trust in God, we must join the thought of death to that of perseverance and say: “Although he should kill me, I will trust in him.” (Job 13:15) and will trust Him to give me all I need.

Prominent and rich people of the world show their generosity by forseeing people’s wants and ministering to them, even before they are asked for anything. On the other hand, God’s munificence is showing in His making us seek and ask for, over a long period of time, the grace which He wishes to give us and quite often the more precious the grace, the longer He takes to grant it. There are three reasons why He does this.

1. To thus increase this grace still more:
2. To make the recipient more deeply appreciate it;
3. To make the soul who receives it very careful indeed not to lose it–for people do not appreciate things that they can get quickly and with very little trouble.

So, dear members of the Rosary Confraternity, persevere in asking Almighty God for all your needs, both spiritual and corporal, through the Most Holy Rosary. Most of all you should ask for divine Wisdom, which is an infinite Treasure: “(Wisdom) is an infinite treasure” (Wisdom 7:14) and there can be no possible doubt that you will receive it sooner or later–as long as you do not stop asking for it and do not lose courage in the middle of your journey. **“Thou hast yet a great way to go.” **(3 Kings 19:7) This means that you have along way to go, there will be bad times to weather, many difficulties to overcome and many enemies to conquer before you will have stored up enough treasures of eternity, enough Our Fathers and Hail Marys with which to buy your way to heaven and earn the beautiful crown which is waiting for each faithful Confraternity member. "

But if that healing is not enough, what about the Eucharistic miracle in A.D. 700, first scientifically studied by Dr. Edoardo Linoli, professor of anatomy, pathological histology, chemistry and clinical microscopy, and the former head of the Laboratory of Pathological Anatomy at the Hospital of Arezzo, published in pub med:
Quad Sclavo Digan. 1971. Sep; 7(3): 661-74. Histological, immunological and biochemiccal studies on the flesh and blood of the eucharistic miracle of Lanciano (8th century)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4950729?ordinalpos=28&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
Why SHOULD it happen? There obviously IS a logical reason that “this kind of thing” doesn’t happen much, if at all, these days, and most likely it’s because it would prematurely “stir the pot”

If God is supposedly shrinking tumors, taking away heart disease, helping jr. ace his math test, etc. then I think it is totally normal and appropriate to expect legs to be re-grown.

You, my friend, are quite simply <word redacted so as not to draw the “human rights gestapo” down on my head>.

You may think what you like. How on earth do you consider that your profile’s “religious affiliation” is correctly filled out?

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

You look at the same facts and say well God must have intentionally created some delineation line for not performing such apparent miracles for unknown reasons.

The problem with this theory is that it is not very logical and there is no basis for it in scripture, Catholic doctrine, or even church tradition.

Here’s the logic. You don’t HAVE to accept it, as you have free will, but to not do so makes you quite distanced from the Church.

• God is the one who decides when miracles happen.
• He has decided, for His reasons, that what you would “like to see” is not what you “do see”.
• God’s will wills out.
• Accept that God’s will is reality, or not. To not do so is to not be in communion with the Church.

This COULD be called the “Four Step Method to Hell.”

You just made it up. I suppose if one is unwilling to look outside the Christian made box this is the only conclusion one could use as a default. That does not make it logical.

There is nothing outside the Catholic (which is the most full expression of “Christian”) “box”. That’s why it’s called “Catholic”.

You might want to look up the word “Catholic” as defined by the Church for “direction” in how to use your brain in matters of faith and morals. To use it exactly like any other scientistic materialist puts you in that camp.

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
Religion, especially true religion (that of the Church [Catholic]), requires that we first faithfully believe in hope of a good so as to GET proof, and not hope for proof so that we can get belief in faith.

I assume you meant to write “hope of a God.” Hope is inconclusive. I try to not hope for anything, but rather aggressively go after what is right. I could be wrong, but I do not think your above statement is true Catholic doctrine.

No. I meant “hope of a good”. That IMPLIES God, as God is all-good, of course, but what we hope for is for some good to occurr in the world (and possibly in purgatory as well).

Your lack of hope answers my questions about your motivations quite well indeed.

It’s absolutely hilarious for you to not believe in God qua God, and then make judgment on anyone’s exposition of Catholic Doctrine.

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
God and demons are objective realities. They don’t need to be believed in to be real. They simply ARE real.

Okay…but what has that got to do with you making a snap judgment and calling someone “demonic?”

I’m not calling the sinner demonic, but the sin demonic. That the sinner allows the sin, and calls it not-sin, is for him to be complicit in evil and manipulated by the demons who are more than happy to lead us away from God and into the darkness.

By allowing one’s self to be dragged around by one’s idols is to be demonic.

What I said was:
Where atheists have “borrowed” correct moral/ethical principles from God’s People, they are indeed Godly, but where they haven’t they are demonic and will for the slavery of mankind to their errors (which will eventually devour them as well as those they persecute for being inerrant).

By calling the immoral moral is to allow demonic powers a “handle”, an idol, with which to drag them to hell.

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
Hades, sheol, was done away with by Christ.

People can only condemn themselves to hell.

No, you are wrong here too. Jesus did not do away with hell. He simply made it possible for forgiven sinners to enter the kingdom of heaven because he, the slaughtered innocent lamb, bore the punishment for us on the cross.

No, silly.

I’m not saying Jesus did away with hell. I’m saying that He did away with hades/sheol.

He OPENED heaven and hell, as He obviated hades/sheol.

Don’t you realize that hades/sheol is not hell?

…but then, your catechesis WAS what it was, wasn’t it?

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
Only if I was in charge of some temporal power and considered that your particular heresy (if you were a heretic) threatened the social order would I have you “coercively dealt with”, and I personally would find, if I at all could, a better way to deal with you than burning you at the stake.

Somehow that does not make me feel any better. I guess I should thank God or maybe the Republic of the United States that you are not in charge.

You should thank someone other than God only in as much as you wish to persist in your sins.

:shamrock2:

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
Those are the folks I’m here to “press”. But, in a “nice” way, of course!

Unless I “threaten the social order.”

I’m not in a position to determine how much, or do anything about, your threat to the social order.

I’m also not in a country which is majority Catholic, which is the “social order” I was referring to, which is a further limitation on my “temporal power”.

So, I’m expecting that Catholic truths when expressed here will actually be more and more persecuted, and that the indifferent and lukewarm, if not outright heretical, apostate, and non-Catholic, though probably not non-Catholic-Christian, will do just fine…

…until it’s time to get their just rewards.

:shamrock2:

 

[Rico_S]

Kuzushi:

I am not sure why you continue the back and forth with CatsandDogs…it is quite apparent that it is a fruitless dialogue.

AveSantaMaria:

Why does God not more frequently healing lost appendages? I do not know. One question to ask of you: Why should he want to do so, to violate the physical laws that he himself made?

I don’t pretend to know the mind of God, but we presume that he does violate the laws he himself made when he is “shrinking tumors, taking away heart disease, helping jr. ace his math test, etc” as Kuzushi noted. Well…okay…maybe that isn’t an ok presumption. Perhpas we must establish that first.

Does God answer prayers by performing miracles (at his discretion, obviously) to shrink tumors, take away heart disease, helping jr. ace his test or Bob to get the job he wants? We offer up our prayers for these things all of the time, and when our prayers are “answered” we give thanks to God and give him credit. While I understand that all good things come from God, I am under the assumption that we believe that he has intervened in some way, in order to answer these prayers. That left without God’s intervention, the outcome would have been different. So do you believe that God is violating the very laws that he himself made, (sometimes in a very small way, sometimes in a significant way) in these instances where prayers, like the ones listed, are answered and for which God is given credit?

–Rico

PS Wow, this thread has definitely veered off its original course.

 

[Kuzushi]

You, my friend, are quite simply <word redacted so as not to draw the “human rights gestapo” down on my head>.

You may think what you like. How on earth do you consider that your profile’s “religious affiliation” is correctly filled out?

Hey, are you mocking me now?

• God is the one who decides when miracles happen.
• He has decided, for His reasons, that what you would “like to see” is not what you “do see”.
• God’s will wills out.
• Accept that God’s will is reality, or not. To not do so is to not be in communion with the Church.

God also gave you a brain. Follow the logic chain. God, the Bible, and the church claim that God does miracles. YOU are the one who has decided that God has consciously chosen not to do limb re-growth miracles. According to you and others on this forum miracles happen all the time……except apparent miracles like I am asking about. Does that make ANY sense to you?

but then, your catechesis WAS what it was, wasn’t it?

You might want to look up the word “Catholic”

LOL…you can not defeat my logic so you want to attack my Catholic education. That is a little ironic don’t you think? I am sure Sr. Mary Veronica would take a dim view of you calling her Dominican credentials insufficient. Yes I know catholic means universal.

Don’t you realize that hades/sheol is not hell?

From Wikepedia:

The Latin word infernus or “infernum” (underworld) indicated the abode of the dead and so was used as the equivalent of the Greek word “ᾅδης” (hades). It appears in both the documents quoted above, and pointed more obviously than the Greek word to an existence beneath the earth. Later, the transliteration “hades” of the Greek word ceased to be used in Latin and “infernum” became the normal way of expressing the idea of Hades. Though “infernus” is usually translated into English as “hell”, it did not have the narrow sense that the English word has now acquired. It continued to have the generic meaning of “abode of the dead”. For the modern narrow sense the term “infernum damnatorum” (hell of the damned) was used, as in question 69, article 7 of the Supplement of the Summa Theologica of Thomas Aquinas, which distinguishes five states or abodes of the dead: paradise, hell of the damned, limbo of children, purgatory, and limbo of the Fathers:

I think 95% of Catholics you poll would say that Hades is hell.

The bottom line of this debate is that you have chosen to take the highly theoretical route whereby you come at the problem accepting that the staus qou is as God would have it. You make no allowances at all for human intervention and capabilites, chance occruances, or mistakes and freaks of nature.

I have taken a far more practical approach and saw that a miracle is a miracle. A miracle is the intervention of some supernatural power (God, psychic ability, bigfoot, space ailiens, ghosts, whatever) into the lives of humans. Neither the Bible or the Church distinguises amoung miracles. Any intervention by a supernatural power must, by definiton, be a miracle. Therefore healing a cancerious tumor, giving somone a job they never would have naturaly held, or growing back a severed leg are all equal. Since the re-growth stuff does not happen one MUST conclude that other miracles, and answered prayer does not occur either.

I have news for you and anyone else reading this; you are on your own. My aunt was a devoted Catholic who went to weekly mass, prayed, tithed, and everything else. She came down with osteoporosis. She had to be put in a nursing home because her bones were as fragile as porcelain. She started out wealthy, but after all the bills we could only aford to put her in a medicare/medicade facility. Mentally she was fine, but she was surounded by phsyically and mentally ill seniors who were tied to wheel chairs with sheets while they screamed out all hours of the night and urinated and deficated in their clotheas. Her praying and tithing did not help her in any way. Widows might indeed.

If you want to have a safe and half way decent life YOU must take steps to do what you must. God, your 401(k), your job, etc will not save you. Be smart and start your own business, make individual savy investments, get a reliable education, etc. Most of all DO NOT think by just praying and tithing you will just be all right. There are no miracles and no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It is all up to YOU.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Faith is a gift, but what we do with it is a choice.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

I don’t pretend to know the mind of God, but we presume that he does violate the laws he himself made when he is “shrinking tumors, taking away heart disease, helping jr. ace his math test, etc” as Kuzushi noted. Well…okay…maybe that isn’t an ok persumption: Perhaps we must establish that first.

I’m not sure that I understand the presumption is. Is the presumption that God does do miracles? If so, will this establish that for you? In A.D. 700 “at the monastery of St. Loginus in Lanciano, Italy, a priest from the Order of St. Basil was celebrating Mass. Having doubted the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the priest saw, during the consecration, the bread miraculously transfored into a circle of flesh and the wine appear as bright as fresh blood. Eventually, the liquefied blood turned into five pellets of various sizes and shapes. When the local archbishop later weighed the pellets, it was discovered that one nugget weighed the same as all five together, two as much as any three, and the smallest as much as the largest. In February of 1574, another test was done on the miraculous blood pellets. Again, any one of the pellets weighed along equaled the weight of all five pellets together. In 1970, further tests were made on the body and blood of Jesus. Analysis has proved that the bread and wine contain characteristics of real human flesh and blood. Both belonged to the same blood type, AB. Eventually the Franciscans rebuilt the church that houses the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano. It is now called the Church of St. Francis (Michael Freze, S.F.O. Voices, Visions, and Apparitions) (concernedcatholics.org - This website is for sale! - obedience chastity virginity confession Eucharist Holy Communion last rites sacrament marriage Jesus Resources and Information.)”

This miracle was first studied scientifically in 1970-1971 by Dr. Edoardo Linoli, professor of anatomy, pathological histology, chemistry and clinical microsocpy, and the former head of the Laboratory of Pathological Anatomy at the Hospital of Arezzo, published in pub med: Quad Sclavo Digan. 1971. Sep; 7(3): 661-74. Histological, immunological and biochemiccal studies on the flesh and blood of the eucharistic miracle of Lanciano (8th century) ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4950729?ordinalpos=28&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
(Pubmed is a service of the U.S. National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health that includes over 18 million citations from MEDLINE and other life science journals for biomedical articles back to the 1950s. PubMed includes links to full text articles and other related resources)

Findings:
"* The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

• The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
• The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
• In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
• The Flesh is a “HEART” complete in its essential structure.
• The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB(Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin)
• In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteric make-up of the fresh normal blood.
• In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
• The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheri and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[AveSantaMaria]

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/images/lansci1.gifFig. 1. - Eosine x 200. Overall histological aspect of a Flesh sample with fibers collected in bundles with longitudinal orientation as it occurs in the outer surface layers of the heart.

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/images/lansci2.gifFig. 2. - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 250. An artery and, very close, a branch of the vagal nerve.

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/images/lansci3.gifFig. 3 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 400. Evidence of the “Rough” aspect of the endocardium; the syncytoid structure of the myocardial tissue.

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/images/lansci4.gifFig. 4 - Elution-absorption test x 80. Above: Hemagglutination test on blood sample in Lanciano: on the left, anti A serum used; on the right, anti-B serum. Bellow hemoagglutination test on a Flesh sample in Lanciano: left, with anti-A serum, right, with anti-B serum. It appears thus that the Flesh and the Blood in Lanciano belong to the AB blood group.

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/images/lansci5.gifFig. 5 - Electro-phoretic pattern of Blood proteins (Cromoscan photometer). The profile of serum fractions is normal and superimposable to that of a fresh serum sample.

From: therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

“The AB blood type of the inhabitants of the area in fact has a percentage that extends from .5% to 1%, while in Palestine and the regions of the Middle East it is 14-15%,” Linoli said. zenit.org/article-12933?l=english

From Luke 1:26-28, "In the sixth month, God send the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” The Sea of Galilee, known to Israelis as Lake Kinneret, is only 13 miles by 7 miles, but is one of the most well-known bodies of water in the world. It was on these beautiful shores that Jesus delivered sermons and performed miracles. Many famous sites are located around the lake, including Capernaum, home to at least five of the twelve disciples. The Church of the Beatitudes is said to be where the Sermon of the Mount was preached and Tabgha believed to be the site where Jesus fed 5,000 followers from five loaves of bread and two fish, is marked by The Church of Multiplication. The nearby lakeside town of Migdal is the hometown of Mary Magdalene. jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/geo/Galilee.html
Map of Galilee at this page: worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/il.htm
Galilee is in northern Palestine: pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/galilee.html

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[AveSantaMaria]

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

Luke 1:29-33**“Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be.” But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”**

From St. Louis Mary de Montfort, True Devotion to Mary, Chapter One: Necessity of Devotion To Our Lady

1. Mary’s part in the Incarnation.

14. With the whole Church, I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, **“I am he who is.” (Exod.3:14) ** Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them.
15. However, I declare that, considering things as they are, because God has decided to begin and accomplish his greatest works through the Blessed Virgin ever since he created her, we can safely believe that he will not change his plan in the time to come, for he is God and therefore does not change in his thoughts or his way of acting. Heb. 1:12, Ps 101:28
**16. ** God the Father gave is his only Son to the world only through Mary. Whatever desires the patriarchs may have cherished, whatever entreaties the prophets and saints of the Old Law may have made for 4,000 years to obtain that reasure, it was Mary alone who merited it and found grace before God by the power of her prayers and the perfection of her virtues. “The world being unworthy,” said St. Augustine, “to receive the Son of God directly from the hands of the Father, he gave his Son to Mary for the world to receive him from her.”
The Son of God became man for our salvation but only in Mary and through Mary.
God the Holy Spirit formed Jesus Christ in Mary but only after having asked her consent through one of the chief ministers of his court.
**17. ** God the Father imparted to Mary his fruitfulness as far as a mere creature was capable of receiving it, to enable her to bring forth his Son and all the members of his mystical body.
**18. ** God the Son came down into her virginal womb as a new Adam into his earthly paradise, to take his delight there and produce hidden wonders of grace.
God-made-man found freedom in imprisoning himself in her womb. He displayed power in allowing himself to be borne by this young maiden. He found his glory and that of his Father in hiding his splendours from all creatures here below and revealing them only to Mary. He glorified his independence and his majesty in depending upon this lovable virgin in his conception, his birth, his presentation in the temple, and in the thirty years of his hidden life. Even at his death she had to be present so that he might be united with her in one sacrifice and be immolated with her consent to the eternal Father, just as formely Issac was offered in sacrifice by Abraham when he accepted the will of God. It was Mary who nursed him, fed him, cared for him, reared him, and sacrificed him for us.

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[AveSantaMaria]

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

Luke 1:35-38**“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. For nothing is impossible with God.” “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her."**

The Holy Spirit could not leave such wonderful and inconceivable dependence of God unmentioned in the Gospel, though he concealed almost all the wonderful things that Wisdom Incarnate did during his hidden life in order to bring home to us its infinite value and glory. Jesus gave more glory to God his Father by submitting to his Mother for thirty years than he would have given him had he converted the whole world by working the greatest miracles. How highly then do we glorify God when to please him we submit ourselves to Mary, taking Jesus as our sole model!
**19. **If we examine closely the remainder of the life of Jesus Christ, we see that he chose to begin his miracles through Mary. It was by her word that he sanctified St. John the Baptist in the womb of his mother, St. Elizabeth; no sooner had Mary spoken than John was sanctified.

Luke 1:39-45At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored that the mother of m Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed is she who has believed that what the Lord has said to her will be accomplished.

This was his first and greatest miracle of grace. At the wedding in Cana he changed water into wine at her humble prayer, an this was his first miracle in the order of nature. He began and continued his miracles through Mary and he will continue them through her until the end of time.
**20. **God the Holy Spirit, who does not produce any divine person, became fruitful through Mary whom he espoused. It was with her, in her and of her that he produced his masterpiece, God-made-man, and that he produces every day until the end of the world the members of the body of this adorable Head. FOr this reason the more he finds Mary, his dear and inseparable spouse, in a soul the more powerful and effective he becomes in producing Jesus Christ in that soul and that soul in Jesus Christ.
**21. **This does not mean that the Blessed Virgin confers on the Holy Spirit a fruitfulness which he does not already possess. Being GOd, he has the ability to produce just like the Father and the Son, although he does not use this power and so does not produce another divine person. But it does mean that the Holy Spirit chose to make use of our Blessed Lady, although he had no absolute need of her, in order to become actively fruitful in producing Jesus Christ and his members in her and by her. This is a mystery of grace unknown even to many of the most learned and spiritual of Chrisitans.

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *