Is faith a learned behaviour?

[fhansen]

Faith doesn’t exist by itself though. For example, you’re not born with faith. You would be incapable of having faith without being taught the belief system. With that being said, it all seems kind of worthless to me.

It just seems like dumb luck that you have someone in your life to teach you, and then you subsequently develop faith. You can’t develop faith without being taught the belief. The whole system seems a tad random to me.

I respect it all, I just don’t understand it and wish that I did.

The beliefs or tenets are taught or proposed as revealed knowledge. The supernatural virtue of faith is the empowerment to be able to believe in this knowledge in spite of the fact that you can’t see or prove the object of your belief. This can only be experienced by each of us personally/individually.

 

[PJM]

=HopeSE;5493210]I’ve often wondered if “faith” isn’t actually a learned behaviour, adopted more from faith in your parents than faith in god. For example, if I was born to Jewish parents, or if I was born Catholic, but adopted into a Muslim family when I was 1 year old. Wouldn’t I adopt those faiths since I had not learned how to be Catholic yet?

I know at some point you make a conscious choice, but doesn’t it equate in a way to just being taught one thing over another. If you tell your kids that “green” is “red” and they grow up with others that believe the same at some point they are 1,000 times more likely to adopt this belief as their own. It just seems so random.

It concerns me that something so important could all just be the result of chance.

Does belief = chance? If so, is that fair to those that get stuck in a godless family, etc…

***Interesting thought, but the answer is NO.

What you raise a very valid point, this “auto indoctrination”*** certainly has great effect early in ones life. And for a small percentage has greater long term effects than most experience.

***But as soon as one reaches adulthood, and has the ability to form independent thought the effects of public schooling and peer pressure seem to be overwhelming. The secular press, Media, and focus on me and my, and mine often take on a frighting importance in youth today.

How many really solid Catholic familes have had their children leave the CC for another, or no church. I suspect a super majority. My two kids included. It’s more than rebellion, its choosing a differnt life, as well as rejection of parental preference and practice.

The lack of piety, awe and reverance in a great many Catholic churches today supports this exodus. Today the second largest Christian denomination is “fallen away catholics.” Only about 23% of professed Catholics find it necessary to attend Sunday and Holiday Mass, and only 10% go to Confession even once a year. About 20% understand and accept the Doctrine of Christ Real Presence.

Having shared this FAITH is a gift from God. While sufficent grace is offered to everyone, few seem willing “to take up their cross” and follow Christ, especially within the confines of the 2,000 year old CC where Doctrine, Dogma, Tradition are well established and leave little room for "Individual " choices beyong obedience or disobedience. And it seems an easy task to picture us as out of date and old fashioned, and too rigid. My friends don’t so why do I have too?

Catholic Pastors are torn between liberals and traditionalist, and fear to preach the truth, the whole truth, so help me God for fear of losing even more parishoners and their much needed financial support.

Faith and ones personal salvation is never mere chance. God is in charge. Everyone is offered sufficient grace to accept salvation. There is no substitue for ones personal example, and super abundant prayers for those who seem to say no. God keeps offering grace until we are dead, and how many later in life reverts and converts do we meet through this Forum?***

***Grace and sin are never far apart from each other. That is why God gives us minds, intellects, freewills and the capacity to know and embrace truth.

Love and prayers.***

 

[survive]

Most people change their belief systems sometime in life. From what I’ve observed, a majority leave what they grew up in as teenagers or pre- or post-teens, and of that number, a little ove rhalf eventually return. I don’t know the numbers, but I have seen a lot and been involved in a lot of beliefs and read a lot of testimonies. It looks to me as if about two-thirds change beliefs between age 10 and 24 or thereabouts, and about five percent before and maybe one in eight after that age. Then it looks like about 3/5 rejoin what they grew up in. So in other words, half of us see what else is out there, change our minds and then eventually return, around a quarter switch and never go back, and a quarter never switch in the first place.
In my old church, we had a meeting in which we worked in groups according to how long the (adult) participants had been Christians. The categories were something like under one year, one to three years, three to five, five to eight, eight to ten and more than ten – and that was a small, small percentage of us. The under-one-years and one-to-three-years were the biggest groups IIRC. At the past Easter Vigil my parish confirmed more adults than could fit in the sanctuary, and approximately a third of that year’s inquirers had to go to another parish or get private instruction or wait for another year, because there weren’t enough places to seat them all in RCIA. It’s my experience that as soon as people can read and ask abstract questions they start shopping for truth on their own very intensely.

 

[PJM]

14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ

Heb. 11: 1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old received divine approval. 3 By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear

1 Cor. 13:13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. [Keep perspective!]

Rom. 12: 3 For by the grace given to me I bid every one among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith which God has assigned him. 4 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function,

2 Pet. 1: For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body[meaning ONLy One church] and one Spirit, [One God] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, one faith [One set of beliefs and ONE Bible], one baptism, 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

Faith is a GIFT from God with strings attached:thumbsup:

Love and prayers,

 

[Don_Hepler]

I’ve often wondered if “faith” isn’t actually a learned behaviour, adopted more from faith in your parents than faith in god. For example, if I was born to Jewish parents, or if I was born Catholic, but adopted into a Muslim family when I was 1 year old. Wouldn’t I adopt those faiths since I had not learned how to be Catholic yet?

I know at some point you make a conscious choice, but doesn’t it equate in a way to just being taught one thing over another. If you tell your kids that “green” is “red” and they grow up with others that believe the same at some point they are 1,000 times more likely to adopt this belief as their own. It just seems so random.

It concerns me that something so important could all just be the result of chance.

Does belief = chance? If so, is that fair to those that get stuck in a godless family, etc…

You have spoken well, what you say is been the deli ma of the belief that Peter is the Rock. which he is not but if enough people convince you that it is, and you don’t question it then you embrace it. You are a wise person. Few have such understanding. Have you learned to pray??

 

[shoewindow3000]

Faith is not an intellectual virtue; faith is an infused virtue, which means that the intellect is perfected by a supernatural light, in virtue of which, under a supernatural movement of the will, it assents firmly to the supernatural truths of Revelation, not on the motive of intrinsic evidence, but on the sole ground of the infallible authority of God revealing.

In other words, faith is something given by God. A person has reason and intellect. However, one cannot think or reason oneself into faith. It is given by God directly!

I should know, because I was born and raised into a non-religious family. My mother was raised Catholic, but I was not. I never even heard the word “catholic” until around the age of five.

 

[ML561]

Grace and Peace be with you all. I would like to share with you a story about a friend of mine who was raised in an atheist household. Both her parents were very much opposed to any kind of religion. Yet, at the age of 15, she started hanging around with a group I was with, all of whom were Catholics, anywhere from 15 to 21 years of age. We did not try to convert her, but we did invite her to come to Mass and if she had any questions about the faith we answered them to the best of our ability. She asked if she could be baptized, and we said sure she could. Now, to this day I am not sure that her baptism was valid, as we all gathered together in the apartment of one of our friends and baptized her with sink water, but we had gotten together beforehand and ascertained that she was doing this of her own free will and we declared it an emergency. Maybe we were wrong.
Whether she retained her Catholic faith I do not know. I later consulted a priest about this and he said we didn’t do anything wrong in baptizing her.

I was brought up in the Methodist Church and always believed, but found my way to the Catholic Church after seeing that the Protestant Church was incomplete, (Why be satisfied with only two sacraments when you can have seven?) But getting back to the point of whether or not faith is learned, that is a good question. Would I have become a Catholic had I not been first raised in another Christian faith? I do not know. Then there are those who are raised in a Christian faith, whatever it may be, and become atheists. I know of one such man, a college professor, who was brought up in a rather severe fundamentalist Christian church, became an atheist who denounced any kind of religious belief, and ended up committing suicide, a very bitter man. So I am afraid I have rambled quite a bit and not given any kind of answer. Maybe there is none.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

i know most don’t have faith though they might believe in God and His Son but yet they don’t have faith. they may try to learn how to have faith but yet they don’t exercise what little faith they might have.

you know the saying, ‘too good to be true.’ well check this out:

Believe in the one He sent!

 

[seremina]

I believe everyone is born with faith. Some either listen to it, some don’t, or they listen lukewarmedly.

I was born to a Baptist family who had extreme beliefs but in practise were atheistic. I was not allowed any religion at all and I had nobody’s influence to learn from. I felt very neglected. School studies weren’t enough. They don’t do Life Studies. God was calling me and I was only permitted to become Baptist. Even when I was attending Baptist schools and was regularly attending church, it still felt inadequate and like something was missing. I even had this feeling with the protestant Bible, though I couldn’t explain it at the time. When I became older, I started to explore various religions and dabbling in each with trust that God would tell me which one was His. I found it was Catholicism. The Catholic Bible doesn’t have anything missing in it, so that’s a wonderful relief to feel.

The first Catholic Church I tried made it difficult for me to become Catholic, so I had to try it at a different Catholic Church somewhere else in the town. But I made it. I thank God that I was able to find what my soul wanted and I’ll persevere, no matter what God’s Will is.

I hope my experience helps your question.

 

[taxzby]

I think its important to disinguish the difference between learned doctrine and learned faith.
One thing for sure i know is that faith is as natural as my body is. But faith does require help, maintenance, quidance etc. If we believe in a creator we must know that we cannot exist or live without him. If we believe in different levels of intellect and other talents in people then we know that some will have more knowledge than others in different areas. My friend was a budhaist and so was his family, he was sent to a catholic school and in the same grade as me. Now he did not have any intention of becoming a catholic even with this education. It was only after i invited him to my antioch community that he saw what God was about and decided to want to know more.

I believe the universal truth we have here is not only a thirst for knowledge but a search for God a search for truth in which all of us to what ever degree we are capable will search our lives for. The other thing is we just dont become catholic in a split second it is a life process. A continual commitment to God and the Church [community]

However undoubtedly doctrines are learned to some extent. However these doctrines did not come originally out of teaching but from the search of truth/God himself.

Another important thing to remember is that there is more important factors at stake than just pure logic. Religion is concerned with the heart and soul in an almost poetic sense a truth which maths and science cant explain and so dont. for example when Jesus asked simon/peter etc to drop their nets and follow Him, he did not say I am God, he did not look like God reaching out of the sky, nor did he perform an amazing miracle before him however a deeper truth hit them and they followed Jesus just like that.

anyways Gb you all

 

[kprobson]

I’m having some trouble with this question.

I’m Catholic (though a victim of Vatican II and was taught that people are good, but not a lot of doctrine). My husband was raised Methodist, though more agnostic than anything. He agreed to raise the kids Catholic.

We sent the girls to Catholic school k-12. We live in a lower working-class neighborhood, and many of the kids attending were not Catholic. I know the schools had a Religion class, and they actually had workbooks and tests, so they were taught stuff. At home we lean toward the Polish-Catholic mode of things on Sundays and Holy Days. When they brought friends over for dinner we all said Catholic grace. When we visit their Granny, we all attend Methodist service. When they used to stay for the summer there, they did the vacation bible school and all that stuff.

But I noticed in High School that both of them were leaving the Catholic church in their actions. One folds her hands but does not say grace. When we have conversations she tells me bluntly that she does not believe in God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. She said she tried for many years in school, but cannot feel it. So, she’s given up. She’s in college and does not practice at all and gets bristly when I bring up the topic.

The other one believes there may be some kind of Higher Power, but she doesn’t know what. She also does not practice Catholicism, except when she’s home and I drag her to church.

So, where is this faith? I know they were taught stuff. How could I have instilled more faith? If it’s a gift, then how could it have been presented better?

 

[taxzby]

im by no means and expert on this but dont drag your kid to church sit down and have a dialogue with them about what they believe and why. Think Socrates style God bless

 

[fhansen]

I’m having some trouble with this question.

I’m Catholic (though a victim of Vatican II and was taught that people are good, but not a lot of doctrine). My husband was raised Methodist, though more agnostic than anything. He agreed to raise the kids Catholic.

We sent the girls to Catholic school k-12. We live in a lower working-class neighborhood, and many of the kids attending were not Catholic. I know the schools had a Religion class, and they actually had workbooks and tests, so they were taught stuff. At home we lean toward the Polish-Catholic mode of things on Sundays and Holy Days. When they brought friends over for dinner we all said Catholic grace. When we visit their Granny, we all attend Methodist service. When they used to stay for the summer there, they did the vacation bible school and all that stuff.

But I noticed in High School that both of them were leaving the Catholic church in their actions. One folds her hands but does not say grace. When we have conversations she tells me bluntly that she does not believe in God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. She said she tried for many years in school, but cannot feel it. So, she’s given up. She’s in college and does not practice at all and gets bristly when I bring up the topic.

The other one believes there may be some kind of Higher Power, but she doesn’t know what. She also does not practice Catholicism, except when she’s home and I drag her to church.

So, where is this faith? I know they were taught stuff. How could I have instilled more faith? If it’s a gift, then how could it have been presented better?

I teach my kids all that I believe and why I believe it-often dealing with new questions as they come up. I tell them that there’ll be increasing challenges to their faith in this world- they’ll be tested and have to decide for themselves, regardless of how strong they think their faith is now. I want them prepared for these challenges but I also want their faith to be genuine-or not at all. I left the CC at a young age but I sought truth-sought God-on my own (which I think is essential) and the teachings I received as a child later “kicked in”, contributing their part. As parents we can only do the best we can do and leave the rest to Him.

 

[YinYangMom]

So, where is this faith? I know they were taught stuff. How could I have instilled more faith? If it’s a gift, then how could it have been presented better?

I know what you’re feeling. It’s discouraging and worrisome, but the key is to keep your faith strong through this stage of your children’s journey - and that’s what it is - a stage.

What may help is if you spend some time reading through the threads here which deal with peoples’ conversions - particularly those who reverted over the years. After a while you begin to see the pattern of God’s power. You also get a sense for how long some of these stages last. If nothing else, it may help you develop patience and from that, a little peace. You’ll also see that a key factor in the turnaround stories is somebody’s faith in the background for the person throughout the journey. In this case, you. Do not allow yourself to be discouraged. Keep YOUR faith strong because it is what will keep the embers burning in your children’s faith when they stop fanning it themselves.

The thing about faith, is yes, it is a gift. Yes, it is granted at our baptism, but that’s just the seed. The growth and development comes from the will of the Father. The Spirit is the one who manages the growth for each of us because He knows when our souls, minds and hearts are ready to receive Truth - and to what extent. I know I was told many Truths along my 40+ years of Catholic life, and I thought I fully understood them all along, but it wasn’t until my kids hit the teen years that the depth of that Truth was revealed to me through the Spirit. In that new light the Truth spread from just my head to my heart and deep into my soul. Only then was it so firmly rooted that I could die rather than deny it and I found power within me I never new existed, power to truly believe and place my trust in Him. “All in God’s time.”, that’s what gets me through a lot.

 

[seremina]

I also think faith is a habit. You have to keep regular in it, or you lose it. I might be wrong, but its a thought I wanted to share.

 

[Joe_5859]

I also think faith is a habit. You have to keep regular in it, or you lose it. I might be wrong, but its a thought I wanted to share.

There is actually much insight and depth in your observation. Faith is a virtue, and the Catechism defines virtue as “an habitual and firm disposition to do the good” (CCC 1803). So you’re definitely not wrong!