Is Feminism Blasphemy?

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What are your views on feminism and the Bible? Is feminism blasphemy? Could it be the cause of so many seperations in marriage?

I’d like your opinions.

Also…

What are the Church teachings on these verses below? What were they before Vatican II and after Vatican II?

"To the woman he said: “I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master.” - Genesis 3:16​

“But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.” - 1 Corinthians 11:3​

"women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.

But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35​

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.

For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.

As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything." - Ephesians 5:22-24​

“Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord.” - Colossians 3:18​

"A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet.

For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.

But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control." - 1 Timothy 2:11-15​

“Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives’ conduct” - 1 Peter 3:1​

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A reading of Pope John Paul II’s “Mulieris Dignitatis” will answer your questions. (“On the Dignity and Vocation of Women”.) As far as Genesis 3:6 goes, John Paul explains it as being one of the things that was a result of the fall, and is no longer the way things should be. We have been redeemed from such things, and through grace, are not to have this type of dominant/submissive relationship between the sexes.

I Corinthians, 11:3: Much has been written on this passage. Pope John Paul mentions it in “Familiaris Consortio”. It is sometimes taken literally by fundamentalist-minded people.
He qoutes a saint (Clement, I think. I’ll have to check). “She is your wife, not your slave!” etc.

Sounds like you’re really relying on literal Biblical passages in a non-Catholic manner. I really suggest you read “Mulieris Dignitatis”. Saint Edith Stein also had many things to say on this subject.

Here’s something to read: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_29061995_women_en.html
 
It depends on your definition of “feminism.” And everybody’s seems to be just a little bit different.
 
What do your posts have to do with Traditional Catholicism?

This, the Just War post… seem better off in Apologetics/Social Justice or Moral Theology.

Awesome threads, but just out of place. I’d report them for moving, but apparently the reporting feature is not for that and I do not wish to report out of place, for the threads are good. 🙂
 
Your question is almost impossible to answer unless you define what feminism means to you!

If feminism means the ability for women to be educated as they wish and to have equal pay for equal work, then yes, you can count on most women being feminists and I dare so they do not and never will consider themselves blasphemers.:eek:
 
I’m talking about radical feminism, of the far left. Beyond ‘equality’.
 
1 Cor 11:3 should settle this kind of matter. Read it for yourself but, it’s basically saying that the man is the head of the woman and God is the head of Christ. But AH HA, Christ and God are equal. Nowhere does it say the man is better then the woman or the opposite. Everything in life is roles. Is a woman equal physically to a man? Uh, no, just look at the parts.
Feminism is contrary to scripture. Our culture has gone so far from anything remotely close the the original model that most eyes, even in the church, can not see it. Many woman who walk with God know their role, men too. It is the men that abuse their role that is also contrary to scripture and actually very discusting. As a man I know that when both genders walk as they should more often that natural order of things prevails.
 
johnnyjones said:
1 Cor 11:3 should settle this kind of matter. Read it for yourself but, it’s basically saying that the man is the head of the woman and God is the head of Christ. But AH HA, Christ and God are equal. Nowhere does it say the man is better then the woman or the opposite. Everything in life is roles. Is a woman equal physically to a man? Uh, no, just look at the parts.
Feminism is contrary to scripture. Our culture has gone so far from anything remotely close the the original model that most eyes, even in the church, can not see it. Many woman who walk with God know their role, men too. It is the men that abuse their role that is also contrary to scripture and actually very discusting. As a man I know that when both genders walk as they should more often that natural order of things prevails.
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Please keep in mind that verse in Corinthians you mentioned states (at least in my NAB) tha the head of every man is Christ and a husband is the head of his wife. That’s a big difference than saying that men are the head of women. John Paul ll put that verse into the context of our times (and many ones like it) in his encyclicals others have posted links to. We must keep in mind the time, culture, and context in which letters of the Bible are written and what was occurring in the place they were addressed to. In this, it was Corinth and we need to remember that . Encyclicals written in our own times help put certain bible passages into language and understanding of our contemporary times and culture.
 
It is a tough assignment for the modern feminist to find supportive scripture within the church.

A lot turn to the Gnostic works for justification of their feminist beliefs, but in the Gospel of Peter it clearly states that women can’t get into heaven under any circumstances.
 
LightBound said:
Please keep in mind that verse in Corinthians you mentioned states (at least in my NAB) tha the head of every man is Christ and a husband is the head of his wife. That’s a big difference than saying that men are the head of women. John Paul ll put that verse into the context of our times (and many ones like it) in his encyclicals others have posted links to. We must keep in mind the time, culture, and context in which letters of the Bible are written and what was occurring in the place they were addressed to. In this, it was Corinth and we need to remember that . Encyclicals written in our own times help put certain bible passages into language and understanding of our contemporary times and culture.
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I appreciate that you are seeking clarity but you are mistaken about what I wrote. I don’t have a NAB handy but using a “Protestant” NIV and a Catholic Douay bible the verse reads first in the Douay , “But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the WOMAN is the man, and the head of Christ is God.” NIV says,“Now the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the WOMAN is man, and the head of Christ is God.”

These verses are not taking about wives. They are commands dictating the proper roles of men and women. Men prophesying, woman covering their head etc. Encyclicals are helpful but in this case the culture and time is irrelevant. These are not little ancient traditions or out of date ideas. How do I know that? I know that because Christ and God are used to illustrate what must be. Yes, God saying he is the head of Christ -just as the man is the head of the woman.

The real important point is that Christ and God are equal (in substance) as well, so are the man and woman. So, you are incorrect to say that the man is not the head of the woman. Remember head of, not better then.
 
johnnyjones said:
I appreciate that you are seeking clarity but you are mistaken about what I wrote. I don’t have a NAB handy but using a “Protestant” NIV and a Catholic Douay bible the verse reads first in the Douay , “But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the WOMAN is the man, and the head of Christ is God.” NIV says,“Now the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the WOMAN is man, and the head of Christ is God.”

These verses are not taking about wives. They are commands dictating the proper roles of men and women. Men prophesying, woman covering their head etc. Encyclicals are helpful but in this case the culture and time is irrelevant. These are not little ancient traditions or out of date ideas. How do I know that? I know that because Christ and God are used to illustrate what must be. Yes, God saying he is the head of Christ -just as the man is the head of the woman.

The real important point is that Christ and God are equal (in substance) as well, so are the man and woman. So, you are incorrect to say that the man is not the head of the woman. Remember head of, not better then.
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Hey, I’m only quoting what is in the NAB, which is the bible I have and the one used at all the masses I attend.
 
Correction to my above post. The verses do connect to husbands and wives (from Eph 5:22), I am not entirely sure yet if this edict expands to the genders overall. I believe it does, but what I believe doesn’t matter. I will look into it. The point about roles still stands. I apologize for misstating those sentences. The scripture verses I wrote are accurate. I read the Familiaris Consortio about 1Cor 11:3 . A real clear picture of this verse which relates to feminism is at “Waking Up Catholic.com”. Punch in the verse.:o
 
You forgot the Pauline quote about how women are created in the Image of Man, not God:rolleyes:

Honestly, the Bible is pretty anti-woman if you interpret all the passages literally. You have to add a lot of context (as the Catholic Church now does) to give the Book a pro-woman spin.
HailHolyQueen90 said:
What are your views on feminism and the Bible? Is feminism blasphemy? Could it be the cause of so many seperations in marriage?

I’d like your opinions.

Also…

What are the Church teachings on these verses below? What were they before Vatican II and after Vatican II?

"To the woman he said: “I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master.” - Genesis 3:16​

“But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.” - 1 Corinthians 11:3​

"women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.

But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35​

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.

For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.

As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything." - Ephesians 5:22-24​

“Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord.” - Colossians 3:18​

"A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet.

For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.

But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control." - 1 Timothy 2:11-15​

“Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives’ conduct” - 1 Peter 3:1​

  • Thanks
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No, not anti-women, pro-roles. It hard for our current society to wrap our minds around an exact order of things. We have so much confusion today because anything goes. If God is the head of Christ, is the bible anti-Christ? We live in a secular society which makes this a difficult concept to embrace… Women following the Lord know their role, and men should too.
 
Not a secular society as much as a mechanized, industrialized, and peaceful society.

Roles dictated by nature are not as crucial, i.e. that women are on average 60 percent of the strength of men, and have bodies that are designed first to have babies.
 
steve53 said:
Not a secular society as much as a mechanized, industrialized, and peaceful society.

Roles dictated by nature are not as crucial, i.e. that women are on average 60 percent of the strength of men, and have bodies that are designed first to have babies.
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Well, certainly mechanized and industrialized. Peaceful is subjective. Even if accepting an evolutionary (non-theistic) view there is an order to things. If the world of animals or insects suddenly stopped it’s natural order it’s not hard to see that there would be an inbalance. Religion is a private matter (or at least should be). The state can’t tell women they must “submit” to their husband. So, therefore secular.
Sometimes the word “equal” is misunderstood or not put in context. As a Catholic I know that God is the head of Christ, but one is not better than the other. Equal in substance is the point.🙂
 
johnnyjones said:
No, not anti-women, pro-roles. It hard for our current society to wrap our minds around an exact order of things. We have so much confusion today because anything goes. If God is the head of Christ, is the bible anti-Christ? We live in a secular society which makes this a difficult concept to embrace… Women following the Lord know their role, and men should too.
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No.

So what?

Our Western democratic societies have rejected the idea that a person’s worth is predetermined by their gender, class, race, etc. and I think that that is a good thing:shrug:
 
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