Is fiction lying?

[CuriousInIL]

Is writing and distributing fictional stories that are written from a first person perspective (e.g., someone who is not a precocious 16 year old, a 32 year old French female Muslim, or a 87 year old Russian ex-Admiral writes a story that indicates the writer is exactly one of those folks) lying?

Is this lying? Why or why not?

When does the lie occur if there is one? Upon writing? Upon distribution? Does it matter if the readers suspect that it is fiction? If it is released as fiction? How about if it is released as a short biography? Does it matter if the story is release anonymously or under a pseudonym?

Any thoughts and comments are appreciated.

 

[deb1]

Is writing and distributing fictional stories that are written from a first person perspective (e.g., someone who is not a precocious 16 year old, a 32 year old French female Muslim, or a 87 year old Russian ex-Admiral writes a story that indicates the writer is exactly one of those folks) lying?

Is this lying? Why or why not?

When does the lie occur if there is one? Upon writing? Upon distribution? Does it matter if the readers suspect that it is fiction? If it is released as fiction? How about if it is released as a short biography? Does it matter if the story is release anonymously or under a pseudonym?

Any thoughts and comments are appreciated.

IF it is released as fiction then no, it is not lying. This is because the word, fiction, means that it is made up and the writer is being honest by declaring his work, fiction, up front.

If the writer though presents his work as partially true when it is not-such as the Da Vinci Code did- then yes, that would be lying.

 

[Verita]

Remember what lying is:

1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression
(from Merriam Webster)

A lie is not simply an untrue statement. I can make an untrue statement and if I truly believe what I’m saying it isn’t a lie. To be a lie it must be mafe with the intent to deceive. Therefore even if you make a technically true statement but do it in such a way as to be deceptive, it is a lie.

Since authors of fiction in general don’t write their books with the intent to deceive, merely to entertain, they aren’t lying. The author of the Da Vinci Code may be lying in his work, since he does pass it off in interviews as fact. But if he believes it is true then it isn’t actually a lie.

 

[mlchance]

A lie is not simply an untrue statement. I can make an untrue statement and if I truly believe what I’m saying it isn’t a lie.

Yes, it is. Your culpability may be reduced since your intent is not to lie, but intent cannot change the moral character of the action itself.

Writing fiction is not necessarily a lie, but there are fiction writers who intend to deceive. While good intentions do not turn a lie into a non-lie, evil intentions can make even a good act into an evil one.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Verita]

Yes, it is. Your culpability may be reduced since your intent is not to lie, but intent cannot change the moral character of the action itself.

Writing fiction is not necessarily a lie, but there are fiction writers who intend to deceive. While good intentions do not turn a lie into a non-lie, evil intentions can make even a good act into an evil one.

– Mark L. Chance.

But to be a lie it must be an untrue statement made with the intent to deceive. Saying something untrue isn’t lying. It is the intent to deceive that makes it an immoral action. You cannot change the definition of what a lie is, which I posted above.

 

[jrabs]

If you’ve labeled the writing as fiction and the people used are fictional, who would you possibly be lying about? You cannot lie about made up people. There is no harm to them.

 

[CuriousInIL]

If you’ve labeled the writing as fiction and the people used are fictional, who would you possibly be lying about? You cannot lie about made up people. There is no harm to them.

What if one is “becoming” a fictional person on, for example, these message boards and answering as someone they are not, either a made up person, or by pretending to be, for example, their spouse (assuming as is usually the case on message boards that overall the identity of the person is not known any way–I am not talking about someone hijacking their spouses identity and carrying on a conversation with someone that knows them in real life)?

 

[Black_Jaque]

but intent cannot change the moral character of the action itself.

Huh!? If you shoot a man with the intent to kill him - that’s murder. If you shoot a man with the intent to stop him from killing you - that’s legitimate self defense.

Murder and self-defense have very different moral character even though the actions appear identical.

 

[puzzleannie]

of course writing fiction is not lying, especially if it is done with the intent that underlies all great fiction, telling a story about fictional characters and events in order to illuminate a great, universal truth. don’t make the mistake of confusing a compilation of facts with truth.

Jesus told fictional stories in order to convey truth:
the Good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son etc.

If someone writes fiction but markets it as history, biography or scientific fact, that is a lie and a huge sin.

 

[Zooey]

IF it is released as fiction then no, it is not lying. This is because the word, fiction, means that it is made up and the writer is being honest by declaring his work, fiction, up front.

If the writer though presents his work as partially true when it is not-such as the Da Vinci Code did- then yes, that would be lying.

This is exactly the distinction that I thought of!!
To write fiction is simply story telling. To claim that the stories you tell are true…that is what is a lie.

 

[otjm]

Yes, it is. Your culpability may be reduced since your intent is not to lie, but intent cannot change the moral character of the action itself.

– Mark L. Chance.

No, it is not. A mistake in facts is an untrue statement but there is no moral character to it. The moral character is in the issue of intent to tell the truth. intent to deceive.

If I see a large animal beside the road as I am traveling along, and say “Oh, look, and elk” ehn it is actually a caribou, there is no intent to deceive, and there is no moral wrong in mistaking one animal for another. There is no moral cupiblity to be reduced. It is simply a mistake of fact; and it is an untrue statement. But it is not a lie.

 

[Contarini]

Is writing and distributing fictional stories that are written from a first person perspective (e.g., someone who is not a precocious 16 year old, a 32 year old French female Muslim, or a 87 year old Russian ex-Admiral writes a story that indicates the writer is exactly one of those folks) lying?

Of course it’s not lying, as long as it is clear that the work is fiction.

Writing “truthy” memoirs about things that didn’t actually happen and publishing them as non-fiction–that’s lying!

Lying must involve an intent to deceive (which I would argue includes any action which one can reasonably expect will deceive, even if that is not the primary intent). Where there is no intent to deceive, and where the work is clearly marked as fiction according to the dominant cultural conventions (indeed, in our culture it’s common for novels to have a note inside the front cover–in order to avoid libel litigation, primarily–identifying the book as a work of fiction!), lying is clearly not taking place.

Edwin

 

[CuriousInIL]

A number of folks have pointed out that the question is whether it is clear it is fiction.

What about, for example, an otherwise blank webpage, that contains an “essay” about the “life” of the poster without any indication of whether it is intended as truth or fiction?

O, for example, a post on this message board that takes a hypothetical situation and presents it as “fact” for purposes of discussion. For example, what if I had started this thread with the statement that “I write fiction, is that lying?” instead of the more general and hypothetical way I did state it (because I am not currently writing fiction)?

 

[dulcissima]

A number of folks have pointed out that the question is whether it is clear it is fiction.

What about, for example, an otherwise blank webpage, that contains an “essay” about the “life” of the poster without any indication of whether it is intended as truth or fiction?

O, for example, a post on this message board that takes a hypothetical situation and presents it as “fact” for purposes of discussion. For example, what if I had started this thread with the statement that “I write fiction, is that lying?” instead of the more general and hypothetical way I did state it (because I am not currently writing fiction)?

I think it is lying, is very decptive, and is actually hurtful. Maybe I’m just gullible, but I actually care about a lot of the people I read about here and really do spend time in prayer for them. Anyone who posts fiction here really needs to find a new hobby.

 

[Contarini]

A number of folks have pointed out that the question is whether it is clear it is fiction.

What about, for example, an otherwise blank webpage, that contains an “essay” about the “life” of the poster without any indication of whether it is intended as truth or fiction?

O, for example, a post on this message board that takes a hypothetical situation and presents it as “fact” for purposes of discussion. For example, what if I had started this thread with the statement that “I write fiction, is that lying?” instead of the more general and hypothetical way I did state it (because I am not currently writing fiction)?

I think it depends on the circumstances–how is the piece written, who is likely to read it, etc.

For instance, one finds on the Internet frequent examples of people taking obvious spoofs seriously. Indeed, I’ve been guilty of this before now. Many people actually think that the “Landover Baptist” website is real, even though it’s obviously run by a bunch of ex-fundamentalists having some rather nasty fun. Are people obliged to account for every silly mistake readers might make? There comes a point where you can’t let yourself be held hostage by other people’s poor reading skills (or carelessness). On the other hand, we have a responsibility not to cause our weaker brothers to stumble. . . .

Edwin

 

[CuriousInIL]

dulcissima[/B]
, post:14, topic:65152”]
I think it is lying, is very decptive, and is actually hurtful. Maybe I’m just gullible, but I actually care about a lot of the people I read about here and really do spend time in prayer for them. Anyone who posts fiction here really needs to find a new hobby.

Any fiction? I understand why it would be bad if we has a “relationship” on here and as part of that I lied/fictionalized that I was divorcing or that I had a disease or something. But what about “just stories”? For example, my last example, if instead of a hypothetical question, I started this thread with a post of “I am writing fiction…”?

 

[dulcissima]

Any fiction? I understand why it would be bad if we has a “relationship” on here and as part of that I lied/fictionalized that I was divorcing or that I had a disease or something. But what about “just stories”? For example, my last example, if instead of a hypothetical question, I started this thread with a post of “I am writing fiction…”?

I’m not totally sure what you are getting at with if you started this thread saying “I am writing fiction…” I mean, I guess if you want to start a thread on the Back Fence, label it fiction, and say whatever you want, then it is not lying.

If you posted a story that might stir up some emotion in the Family Life or Parenting sections, and lead people to believe that your fiction is someone’s actual life events, then that is something else altogether. I’m not even talking about if for some reason you had a “relationship” with someone here. I’m just talking about apealing to people’s hearts by relating some story that isn’t even true. There have been so many stories, true stories that it would be great if they weren’t true stories, that I have really felt for the posters and have committed myself to praying for them. I think it would be wrong to take advantage of people like that, just out of boredom.

 

[CuriousInIL]

I’m not totally sure what you are getting at with if you started this thread saying “I am writing fiction…” I mean, I guess if you want to start a thread on the Back Fence, label it fiction, and say whatever you want, then it is not lying.

If you posted a story that might stir up some emotion in the Family Life or Parenting sections, and lead people to believe that your fiction is someone’s actual life events, then that is something else altogether. I’m not even talking about if for some reason you had a “relationship” with someone here. I’m just talking about apealing to people’s hearts by relating some story that isn’t even true. **There have been so many stories, true stories that it would be great if they weren’t true stories, **that I have really felt for the posters and have committed myself to praying for them. I think it would be wrong to take advantage of people like that, just out of boredom.

I think I understand what you mean except for the bolded part.
Just to clarify what I meant, I started this thread with the hypothetical question “Is writing…” If you look, I never said that I was writing such stories, because I currently am not doing so. So, let’s say I “fictionalized” the original question to make it “personal” and asked, “I am writing fiction… is this lying?” Is the “fiction” that the question is about me “just fiction”? Or lying? I would do so not to deceive per se, but rather to try to get more answers to my question–personal questions seem to get more answers than hypothetical questions.

 

[st_lucy]

I think I understand what you mean except for the bolded part.
Just to clarify what I meant, I started this thread with the hypothetical question “Is writing…” If you look, I never said that I was writing such stories, because I currently am not doing so. So, let’s say I “fictionalized” the original question to make it “personal” and asked, “I am writing fiction… is this lying?” Is the “fiction” that the question is about me “just fiction”? Or lying? I would do so not to deceive per se, but rather to try to get more answers to my question–personal questions seem to get more answers than hypothetical questions.

I would think that if you did say that you are writing a fiction you are trying to make me perceive that you are actually writing a fiction. You are lying to me. So it is a lie. When one writes a book for publication one must label the book fiction or non-fiction. So you are to let the reader know what kind of book they are reading, and not deceive the reader into false hood.

I would always try to stay clear of deceiving another even if you are trying to get more answers simple because a lie can hurt someone, even if the intent is not to do that. It is always better to be honest.

 

[dulcissima]

I think I understand what you mean except for the bolded part.
Just to clarify what I meant, I started this thread with the hypothetical question “Is writing…” If you look, I never said that I was writing such stories, because I currently am not doing so. So, let’s say I “fictionalized” the original question to make it “personal” and asked, “I am writing fiction… is this lying?” Is the “fiction” that the question is about me “just fiction”? Or lying? I would do so not to deceive per se, but rather to try to get more answers to my question–personal questions seem to get more answers than hypothetical questions.

I was referring to all of the stories of dying children, abusive spouses, serious financial problems, etc. It would be nice if these stories were fiction and people weren’t really having to face such problems. I have received quite a few PM’s from women who are trapped in abusive marriages and don’t know a way out. It’s sad to think of all tht they have to endure. I only wish their stories were a work of fiction. That’s all.

As far as your question, I’ve been thinking about it a little more. I think this is a situation where intent does make a difference. You can tell a story that is not literally true, but use fiction as a device for getting at a real truth. I think that there is no moral problem with that. You don’t even necessarily have to add a disclaimer. I think there is a problem though with using fiction to manipulate people, either financially or emotionally or whatever.

If you think about it, in the parables that Jesus related to us, he used fiction to help us better understand Truth. That is not lying.