Is file sharing a sin?

[terminated007]

I work for a media company…

No wonder you are trying so hard to equate file sharing to stealing.

The area where we disagree is whether or not ownership gets to be transferred when someone buys a media.

Lo! If you wanna fight file sharing, start with Google or ask your government why Google is not being targeted

 

[terminated007]

Very often, one person’s right conflict directly with another person’s rights. If your right to play music on your computer conflicts with another person’s right to be justly compensated for making that music, where should the line be drawn?

Let me modify that question a little bit. If one’s right to share the contents in his computer… where should the line be drawn?

Operating System manufacturers like Microsoft which is also a big software company are the ones who make it possible for people to share files in the first place. So if its a big deal for them, then they will eliminate that functionality on Operating Systems.

To control what people share is a big issue. It shouldn’t stop at CDs. If you tell someone not to give a CD he has paid for to another person, then one can as well tell someone not to do the same thing with a Book he has paid for. So when one buys a book, he wouldn’t even have the right to resell it. I am using this example because some books and CDs carry the same content.

I strongly believe that if one pays for something, then he should have the say on what to do with that thing.

So I still don’t see how file sharing can be classified as a sin

 

[edwest2]

The law passed in France is clearly out of line with laws against theft. Do people get warnings for stealing? Come on man.

To the best of my knowledge, some human rights activists are planning to challenge the law in the European Court of Human Rights.
Why would this law not be effective? Because it wouldn’t affect those who use proxy servers, those who use Internet in libraries and those who have public Internet access (like at airports etc…)

This is just one of those laws that are just too hard to police. BTW, how will they get to know that someone is downloading illegally? People would have to be monitored. Thats why such a law can never be made in countries like the US where privacy seems to come before any other thing.

Fortunately, victims don’t get to go to jail or even pay a fine. Lets face facts here. If this was a serious issue, why would a big government like France pass such a law? This clearly shows that the French government doesn’t consider the issue as a big deal. They are just trying to please some lobbies.

If I produce a song and make CDs and sell it and then I see it on a file sharing site a few days later, what am I supposed to do? If you produce an entire album, put it on CD, and saw it on a file sharing site a few days later, what would you do?

As an artist who wants to make a living, I want to make sure nobody can turn it into digital bits and just give it away. Do you understand? So, a country like France is doing the right thing by dealing with a crime. People are copying my work and giving it away for nothing. I hope the United States does the same thing.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Cristiano]

Such a statement is very misleading. The Catholic Church does not say anything like that. Aren’t we the ones fighting against secular laws like legalising homosexuality, abortion etc?..

This is not misleading at all. While we must obey any law that is not immoral, we also have the obligation to try to change the laws that are immoral. I do not see this country as mandating abortions, homosexual marriages etc.

These limits are exactly what we don’t want. It should be illegal to put limits on what people can do with things like CDs they buy. It violates human rights to a certain extend…

How does it violate human rights?

…The whole idea of copyright/patent is really being used nowadays for selfish interests. Some people just want to make money at all costs…

So you are saying that people are not allowed to protect their intellectual property and make money out of it? I would like to see how much you would last with an employer that would stop paying you with the justification that you are greedy.

…I personally don’t think that file sharing is a sin…

So now you are the Magisterium of the Church.

… Moreover, I can do without all the things I obtain via file sharing. Meaning, some of us are useless in the eyes of some manufacturers.

Ovidio would call this attitude “sour grapes”

 

[Cristiano]

…If file sharing was really a crime, then countries like the US would have to start with Google.

File sharing by itself is not illegal. File sharing of copyrighted material is illegal. If you live an a country where they do not have copyright laws, then you are not sinning if you are downloading copyrighted material. However, if you upload it you would be committing a sin because you would people in near occasion of sin, people that live in countries with copyright laws.

 

[edwest2]

File sharing by itself is not illegal. File sharing of copyrighted material is illegal. If you live an a country where they do not have copyright laws, then you are not sinning if you are downloading copyrighted material. However, if you upload it you would be committing a sin because you would people in near occasion of sin, people that live in countries with copyright laws.

I work in the media. I go to file sharing sites to see if they are stealing our material, and guess what? They are. Copyright means right to copy. If you have no right to copy then don’t copy it. How much simpler does it get? If it doesn’t belong to you, don’t take it. Ever.

And what is this idea about me working hard to make a song or a book or a painting, to make a living but whoops… I can’t get a copyright? That makes it OK to take my work for nothing? I don’t see any clear thinking in that idea. If my country had no copyright laws, I would stop all work. Period. I would get a job as a plumber. Artists who want to make a living should be fairly compensated.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Cristiano]

I work in the media. I go to file sharing sites to see if they are stealing our material, and guess what? They are. Copyright means right to copy. If you have no right to copy then don’t copy it. How much simpler does it get? If it doesn’t belong to you, don’t take it. Ever.

If you are saying that all file sharing is a copy right violation, then that is paranoia.

…And what is this idea about me working hard to make a song or a book or a painting, to make a living but whoops… I can’t get a copyright? That makes it OK to take my work for nothing? I don’t see any clear thinking in that idea. If my country had no copyright laws, I would stop all work. Period. I would get a job as a plumber. Artists who want to make a living should be fairly compensated…

If I were living in a country without copy right laws, I would probably do something different. It is not a fundamental human right to be an artist and to make money out of it.

Copyright laws make sense to me. However, their violations are not stealing. If that were true copyright would not expire. Just because to me or others it is not stealing nobody is justified to infringe on them, it is still immoral to break those laws.

 

[edwest2]

If you are saying that all file sharing is a copy right violation, then that is paranoia.

If I were living in a country without copy right laws, I would probably do something different. It is not a fundamental human right to be an artist and to make money out of it.

Copyright laws make sense to me. However, their violations are not stealing. If that were true copyright would not expire. Just because to me or others it is not stealing nobody is justified to infringe on them, it is still immoral to break those laws.

There is no other reason for file sharing sites but to steal other people’s work. Period.

I would work to shut down all file sharing sites.

Peace,
Ed

 

[terminated007]

Technically? What does that mean?

File sharing is the new word for stealing. Period.

File Sharing means sharing files. Files include: documents (word documents, PDF, text etc), photos, source code, audio, videos etc.
File sharing is typically used within Local Area Networks (LAN) especially within companies to ease communication and transfer of files. File sharing is now common in the Web to enable people share files over wider areas.

So you might wanna reconsider the way you rush into certain conclusions.

 

[terminated007]

If I produce a song and make CDs and sell it and then I see it on a file sharing site a few days later, what am I supposed to do? If you produce an entire album, put it on CD, and saw it on a file sharing site a few days later, what would you do?

As an artist who wants to make a living, I want to make sure nobody can turn it into digital bits and just give it away. Do you understand? So, a country like France is doing the right thing by dealing with a crime. People are copying my work and giving it away for nothing. I hope the United States does the same thing.

Yes, I do understand. Well, that’s just the challenge you guys in the entertainment industry face today.
Do you guys however do any form of Risk Management? Do you guys research on your target audience? To the best of my knowledge, before anyone jumps into producing something and expecting to make profit out of it, one would analyse the risks involved and would have a target audience. I believe that is exactly what software manufacturers are doing and they don’t get to worry too much about ‘piracy’ as opposed to the entertainment companies.

You only know of some few online file sharing / indexing sites. There is just so much going on behind Intranets and LANs which you don’t get to know. So seeing your product on a peer-to-peer or indexing site tells you that at least one person has bought it and has put it in a folder in his computer which can be accessible via the Web.
So by now, you guys should be thinking of other effective ways of distributing your products. For me, you guys could invest in innovation instead for wasting resources fighting ‘piracy’. Some entertainment companies are already doing that. To the best of my knowledge, some of them have struck some kind of deals with YouTube thats why people still get to watch certain videos on YouTube. Others are trying to strike deals with some of the big indexing sites because they are aware of the fact that policing ‘file sharing’ is extremely difficult.

You guys really need to adapt to technology today. It’s one thing to make a product, advertise it and expect to make profit. To the best of my knowledge, it doesn’t really work like that. Business people are supposed to have a target audience (and most of them do).

It’s important to remember that those who have money to buy, will buy and those who don’t have money to buy, wouldn’t buy (irrespective of the existence of file sharing sites). That’s what I think.

 

[terminated007]

How does it violate human rights?

It violates the right to give and share (to a certain extend). It also violates the right of what an owner should do with the things he has paid for. IMO

So you are saying that people are not allowed to protect their intellectual property and make money out of it? I would like to see how much you would last with an employer that would stop paying you with the justification that you are greedy.

Have you ever heard of anti-copyright? I suggest you read the article about anti-copyright. It should help you understand why people see things differently when it comes to copyright. I believe I fall under the category of those with partial opposition to copyright laws. I will tell you why later.

So now you are the Magisterium of the Church.

I said: “…I personally don’t think that file sharing is a sin…”
The phrase speaks clearly for itself. There is no need rushing into conclusions.

 

[terminated007]

There is no other reason for file sharing sites but to steal other people’s work. Period.

I would work to shut down all file sharing sites.

Again, I do understand your position but saying that you would work to shut down all file sharing sites is like saying that you would work to shut down the Internet.
File sharing in connecting files on different computers and thats how the WWW functions.

If I were you, I would work on adapting to technology.

 

[terminated007]

File sharing by itself is not illegal. File sharing of copyrighted material is illegal. If you live an a country where they do not have copyright laws, then you are not sinning if you are downloading copyrighted material. However, if you upload it you would be committing a sin because you would people in near occasion of sin, people that live in countries with copyright laws.

In one of my posts, I said: “…I personally don’t think that file sharing is a sin…” the keywords being “personally and think” and you asked if I was the magisterium of the church.
Based on your statement above, between both of us, who is actually acting like the magisterium of the Catholic Church?
No offense bro

 

[edwest2]

File Sharing means sharing files. Files include: documents (word documents, PDF, text etc), photos, source code, audio, videos etc.
File sharing is typically used within Local Area Networks (LAN) especially within companies to ease communication and transfer of files. File sharing is now common in the Web to enable people share files over wider areas.

So you might wanna reconsider the way you rush into certain conclusions.

This isn’t about me. These aren’t my conclusions. The FBI is taking action:

fbi.gov/cyberinvest/cyberedletter.htm

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Yes, I do understand. Well, that’s just the challenge you guys in the entertainment industry face today.
Do you guys however do any form of Risk Management? Do you guys research on your target audience? To the best of my knowledge, before anyone jumps into producing something and expecting to make profit out of it, one would analyse the risks involved and would have a target audience. I believe that is exactly what software manufacturers are doing and they don’t get to worry too much about ‘piracy’ as opposed to the entertainment companies.

You only know of some few online file sharing / indexing sites. There is just so much going on behind Intranets and LANs which you don’t get to know. So seeing your product on a peer-to-peer or indexing site tells you that at least one person has bought it and has put it in a folder in his computer which can be accessible via the Web.
So by now, you guys should be thinking of other effective ways of distributing your products. For me, you guys could invest in innovation instead for wasting resources fighting ‘piracy’. Some entertainment companies are already doing that. To the best of my knowledge, some of them have struck some kind of deals with YouTube thats why people still get to watch certain videos on YouTube. Others are trying to strike deals with some of the big indexing sites because they are aware of the fact that policing ‘file sharing’ is extremely difficult.

You guys really need to adapt to technology today. It’s one thing to make a product, advertise it and expect to make profit. To the best of my knowledge, it doesn’t really work like that. Business people are supposed to have a target audience (and most of them do).

It’s important to remember that those who have money to buy, will buy and those who don’t have money to buy, wouldn’t buy (irrespective of the existence of file sharing sites). That’s what I think.

That is wrong. Entirely wrong. J.K. Rowling refuses to offer Harry Potter in digital format.

cnn.com/2010/TECH/01/01/ebook.piracy/index.html

Piracy is stealing. It’s 100% wrong. No deals will be made.

We know our target audience.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Spirithound]

I strongly believe that if one pays for something, then he should have the say on what to do with that thing.

So I still don’t see how file sharing can be classified as a sin

Your second-last sentence made this thing shift in my mind. Perhaps I’ve been looking at it from the wrong angle. If we accept that a person who pays for something has the right to do as they will with that thing, then what should we say about the person who receives the thing without paying for it?

 

[kelvinf]

Your second-last sentence made this thing shift in my mind. Perhaps I’ve been looking at it from the wrong angle. If we accept that a person who pays for something has the right to do as they will with that thing, then what should we say about the person who receives the thing without paying for it?

If I buy an object e.g. a book, after reading it, I can decide to give it to a family member or friend to also read it (the receiver hasn’t paid for it but is receiving it from someone how as paid for it). That’s sharing or giving. IMO

 

[terminated007]

Your second-last sentence made this thing shift in my mind. Perhaps I’ve been looking at it from the wrong angle. If we accept that a person who pays for something has the right to do as they will with that thing, then what should we say about the person who receives the thing without paying for it?

If I buy an object e.g. a book, after reading it, I can decide to give it to a family member or friend to also read it (the receiver hasn’t paid for it but is receiving it from someone how as paid for it). That’s sharing or giving. IMO

 

[Cristiano]

If I buy an object e.g. a book, after reading it, I can decide to give it to a family member or friend to also read it (the receiver hasn’t paid for it but is receiving it from someone how as paid for it). That’s sharing or giving. IMO

And you have the legal right to donate your CD to whomever you want. You just cannot keep a copy for yourself as you would not do with a book. I also agree that some software EULAs are garbage and they should not considered enforceable when it comes to non transfer.

 

[DChacon]

the key word is sharing in file sharing…
i like file sharing cause i can see a movie and find out for myself if its good to buy or not and i dont have to pend the my hard earn money in something i might never see again, for example the movie 2012, if it wasnt for file sharing i might of bought this piece of garbage or apocalypto, it was great so i went out and bought it.
if you take something that someone created and then sell copies of it to make a profit yes that would be considered illegal and a sin but if someone puts something out there for free how is that a crime or sin?