Is flipping someone off a sin

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codefro

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Now, it may sound like a dumb question, but I didnt find any dicissions on it so I thought I’d bring it up.

I haven’t flipped anybody off in probably 12 years. The other day my boss was getting pushy on me and really getting on my case about a job. We are friend’s though so to send a message that he was being a jerk I strategically scratched my eye in a certain way to convey the message. He realized and laughed and backed off. I am a scrupulous person though so immediately my mind was thinking about it.
 
Yes, because it stands for the f word. It would be the same as mouthing a curse word but not saying it. It’s still a sin.
 
In the context of the office situation it is a pretty minor sin. Your scrupulosity is more of an issue.
 
John_of_Woking said:
In the context of the office situation it is a pretty minor sin. Your scrupulosity is more of an issue.
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Sometimes i think im more confused than scrupulous, but nonetheless Ya I try to deal with my scrupulosity. I was dealing with another sin and going to weekly confession for it. Yet, the struggle was mortal sin but the priest still thought me scrupulous for confessing it weekly. Which confused me. So I went to talk to a Norbertine (very traditional) and he defined it as a mortal sin that requires confession. So I think my experience in confession has added to my confusion of sin which makes me concerned if I’ve committed great offense. But scrupulosity I think is a personality thing, and it takes some time to overcome.
 
Yes flipping someone off is a sin. It is a problem of anger…
However what you did was not flipping someone off. You conveyed a “coded” message to a friend - no offense was intended and note taken. In fact, I’m sure that it carried much more weight with this person precisely BECAUSE it was so out of character for you.
And it is definitely NOT something that you will start doing on a regular basis.

Now - it appears you have gotten several takes on this…So perhaps it’s best to run this by your confessor and see what he has to say.

Peace
James
 
I am asking out of curosity and nothing else and it be a badly worded question too as I form it but no offence is meant at all I promise you that.

I have never heard of scrupulosity before this site and yes I have learned to understand its linked to OCD to sins being its form.

But how come its only Catholics that get it in Christian denominations? I am not talking about other religions because they may do but too broad a discussion perhaps I don’t know

It is anxiety issues via the confessional and I suppose it helps because certainly we don’t have to go to confession at all though that may be covering it up for some people I am aware of that. In that they refuse the confessional because of the fear of OCD which is what scrupulosity really is. If it wasn’t in the format of scrupulosity would people who experience that, would have some other form of OCD and may have some other form of OCD anyway. Or is it that somewhere along the lines, teachings about confession and heaven and hell gets all so mixed up people fear this more than good for their health and this is how it comes out and people of other denominations certainly Church of England don’t have this particular trait because heaven and hell is no longer a hell fire and thunder method of preaching… I am not say we are any better before you jump on me because we are no different in actual terms and there may be people out there with worse or different fears because of what the Church of England preach. But Scrupulosity/OCD isn’t or doesn’t seem to be one of them? Is it mainly Catholics who experience this form of OCD?
Just curious and I promise I mean no offence and no wish to argue. Just simply curious
 
englishredrose said:
I am asking out of curosity and nothing else and it be a badly worded question too as I form it but no offence is meant at all I promise you that.

I have never heard of scrupulosity before this site and yes I have learned to understand its linked to OCD to sins being its form.

But how come its only Catholics that get it in Christian denominations? I am not talking about other religions because they may do but too broad a discussion perhaps I don’t know

It is anxiety issues via the confessional and I suppose it helps because certainly we don’t have to go to confession at all though that may be covering it up for some people I am aware of that. In that they refuse the confessional because of the fear of OCD which is what scrupulosity really is. If it wasn’t in the format of scrupulosity would people who experience that, would have some other form of OCD and may have some other form of OCD anyway. Or is it that somewhere along the lines, teachings about confession and heaven and hell gets all so mixed up people fear this more than good for their health and this is how it comes out and people of other denominations certainly Church of England don’t have this particular trait because heaven and hell is no longer a hell fire and thunder method of preaching… I am not say we are any better before you jump on me because we are no different in actual terms and there may be people out there with worse or different fears because of what the Church of England preach. But Scrupulosity/OCD isn’t or doesn’t seem to be one of them? Is it mainly Catholics who experience this form of OCD?
Just curious and I promise I mean no offence and no wish to argue. Just simply curious
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Well I don’t associate OCD and scrupulosity. They may have similar traits but i have heard scrupulosity defined as such: the constant focus on the sin instead of the Savior. I understand it to be forgetting who our God is sometimes and worrying about every little action we do. I struggle with it sometimes, bu I feel I just want answers. Which is why I come to this forum so I can ask devout Catholics on their thoughts and experiences. Want a good example of scrupulosity? Look up Martin Luther’s experience as a monk. My RCIA director made a joke that if ML had Prozac, then the Reformation might not have happened. 😉
 
codefro said:
Now, it may sound like a dumb question, but I didnt find any dicissions on it so I thought I’d bring it up.

I haven’t flipped anybody off in probably 12 years. The other day my boss was getting pushy on me and really getting on my case about a job. We are friend’s though so to send a message that he was being a jerk I strategically scratched my eye in a certain way to convey the message. He realized and laughed and backed off. I am a scrupulous person though so immediately my mind was thinking about it.
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In that context it is probably only a venial sin. However, if done in anger, it dehumanizes the other person and could be a mortal sin. Overall, it’s boorish behavior and in poor taste and a habit one should aspire to break.
 
englishredrose said:
I am asking out of curosity and nothing else and it be a badly worded question too as I form it but no offence is meant at all I promise you that.

I have never heard of scrupulosity before this site and yes I have learned to understand its linked to OCD to sins being its form.

But how come its only Catholics that get it in Christian denominations? I am not talking about other religions because they may do but too broad a discussion perhaps I don’t know

It is anxiety issues via the confessional and I suppose it helps because certainly we don’t have to go to confession at all though that may be covering it up for some people I am aware of that. In that they refuse the confessional because of the fear of OCD which is what scrupulosity really is. If it wasn’t in the format of scrupulosity would people who experience that, would have some other form of OCD and may have some other form of OCD anyway. Or is it that somewhere along the lines, teachings about confession and heaven and hell gets all so mixed up people fear this more than good for their health and this is how it comes out and people of other denominations certainly Church of England don’t have this particular trait because heaven and hell is no longer a hell fire and thunder method of preaching… I am not say we are any better before you jump on me because we are no different in actual terms and there may be people out there with worse or different fears because of what the Church of England preach. But Scrupulosity/OCD isn’t or doesn’t seem to be one of them? Is it mainly Catholics who experience this form of OCD?
Just curious and I promise I mean no offence and no wish to argue. Just simply curious
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This isn’t true. Many, many Non-Catholic Christians suffer from scrupulosity as well, though they may have another work for it. Their condition causes them to obsess over their thoughts and actions and every action or inaction becomes a possible mortal sin. This gets in their way of having an understanding of God’s gift of grace to his children. I don’t have first hand knowledge of the Church of England’s theology, but assuming that the Church believes that one’s relationship with God is in any way effected by or demonstrated by a person’s actions, then a member of that church could certainly be subject to scrupulosity.

It’s important to keep in mind that this disorder is quite rare, even among practicing Catholics. I’ve never met a person in real life who suffers from this condition. Scrupulous persons are probably drawn to forums like CAF because they need constant assurance that they are or are not sinning and they are embarrassed to discuss the issue with people they know, but there are members of CAF who they trust. They can also get advice from other people who have suffered from the same issue.
 
codefro said:
Now, it may sound like a dumb question, but I didnt find any dicissions on it so I thought I’d bring it up.

I haven’t flipped anybody off in probably 12 years. The other day my boss was getting pushy on me and really getting on my case about a job. We are friend’s though so to send a message that he was being a jerk I strategically scratched my eye in a certain way to convey the message. He realized and laughed and backed off. I am a scrupulous person though so immediately my mind was thinking about it.
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Of course it’s a sin!

Anything that is meant to cause insult, injury, hurt the other’s feelings, degrade the other, etc is a sin. What is the intention behind flicking someone off? Even if it’s in jest, the insult is suggested as being something that is okay. The sign of the finger itself means “F… Y…” Shall I break it down further for you, what the F word implies???

None of that is Christian by any means. We often joke without thinking about what the joke really means. It’s not being scrupulous to be aware if one’s humor is off-colour.

While it’s probably not a mortal sin, we still shouldn’t commit venial sins because they destroy charity.
 
thanks for info

I’ve certainly never heard of it beyond Catholics but there again we possibly wouldn’t because it be only the priest that be at all suspect of whoever might have this because of what they say in confession perhaps and mayn’t even tell the person what they suspect because in reality it be of no help unless the priest felt they were in need of real help with it. Most Priests wouldn’t say if they think you have scrupulous because that would bring on the fear for some and do more harm than good unless the person brings it up themselves.

It does kind of bemuse me though how some are quite adement that they don’t need a priest for confession but yet will happily talk to the priest etc so long as a confession and I reckon some have probably said far more in talks and received help with priests then others who regularly use confession perhaps…

However I do actually firmly believe that scrupulous spelling, is a form of OCD because its behaviour that becomes obessive and need that routine thing to deal with it per se. In this case the fear of sin and confession softens of that fear of sin. The number of times term is used on the board suggests its more widespread than you think and wonder what is going wrong to have such a fear of sin today when we all know that God does love us.🙂
 
Given the context and explanation, I am doubtful that this was a mortal sin, and perhaps not even a venial sin.

So as many others have said before me…go as your “Father” (the priest).
 
It can certainly be a serious sin and should be confessed. It’s like calling a curse upon someone, and it’s being done in anger.

Our Blessed Lord said, “But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matt. 5:22).

St Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, “But now put you also all away: anger, indignation, malice, blasphemy, filthy speech out of your mouth” (Col. 3:8).
and also “Let all bitterness and anger and indignation and clamour and blasphemy be put away from you, with all malice” (Eph. 4:31).

Regarding the scrupulosity posts on here, this is not a matter of being scrupulous whatsoever! And scrupulosity is only a problem if it causes you to doubt or despair. You never read in Scripture of scrupulosity itself being a sin! You just have to have faith and know that God is merciful and forgiving and trust in him and trust that if you confess your sins then he is faithful and just to forgive you!

I’m reading St Therese of Lisieux, the little flower, “The Story of a Soul.” Amazing book. In it she explains how she had scruples. She also NEVER in her life committed a moral sin. She never stained her baptismal garment. Being very concerned to not sin against God is a good thing. Most often today people err on the other side and do not care. That is most certainly much more of a problem! If you take sin very seriously because that’s how God takes it, then that is a very healthy thing indeed! God became man and died for those sins. Who are we to ever think or to make them out to be “no big deal”?!
 
Did you intend to offend or insult or hurt him? Did you actually offend or hurt him? It sounds like maybe not, in the context of your relationship and his particular sensibility. In which case it could be just an aesthetically crass joke which meant and did no harm…I would have trouble seeing it as a sin, let alone a serious one. As far as I know the f word is culturally taboo-ish and likely to give offense, but not a sacred or blasphemous word that is ipso facto a sin to say or imply.
 
I’m sure that Catholics have more trouble with scruples just logistically, because of the belief that mortal sins must be confessed to be absolved. If you think your sins are already forgiven, in advance and for all time because of Jesus’ sacrifice, or that internal confession to God suffices, you can “confess” an unlimited number of times per day and feel reassured of God’s mercy.

A mortal sin, in my understanding, requires full knowledge of the grave evil of the act and a free decision to do it anyway. If you’re wondering afterward “wait, was that a mortal sin?” then in all likelihood it was not. God is not waiting for every chance to catch you out doing something accidentally or without thinking so He can cut you off from His grace. He loves you and is not willing that any should perish. Not to say that we shouldn’t try to form our consciences and shape our habits; surely we should so that we can be faithful disciples sharing His abundant life more and more fully. But God is not looking to play “gotcha!”
 
I saw a Christian comedian’s routine about this dilemma: just throw your whole hand up, palm towards your face, all five fingers extended and say “Pick one!” 😃 Just thought I’d lighten things up a bit.
 
I don’t know if it’s a sin, but it’s definitely uncouth. I once went out with someone who flipped another driver off when I was in the car, and needless to say there was no fourth date.
 
codefro said:
Sometimes i think im more confused than scrupulous, but nonetheless Ya I try to deal with my scrupulosity. I was dealing with another sin and going to weekly confession for it. Yet, the struggle was mortal sin but the priest still thought me scrupulous for confessing it weekly. Which confused me. So I went to talk to a Norbertine (very traditional) and he defined it as a mortal sin that requires confession. So I think my experience in confession has added to my confusion of sin which makes me concerned if I’ve committed great offense. But scrupulosity I think is a personality thing, and it takes some time to overcome.
Click to expand...
See what happens when you ask too many people’s opinions?
 
codefro said:
Now, it may sound like a dumb question, but I didnt find any dicissions on it so I thought I’d bring it up.

I haven’t flipped anybody off in probably 12 years. The other day my boss was getting pushy on me and really getting on my case about a job. We are friend’s though so to send a message that he was being a jerk I strategically scratched my eye in a certain way to convey the message. He realized and laughed and backed off. I am a scrupulous person though so immediately my mind was thinking about it.
Click to expand...
So I asked this same question recently to a very devout priest in confession. He said at the most it is a venial sin.

I’m sure he had a good laugh after I left the confessional 😛
 
englishredrose said:
I am asking out of curosity and nothing else and it be a badly worded question too as I form it but no offence is meant at all I promise you that.

I have never heard of scrupulosity before this site and yes I have learned to understand its linked to OCD to sins being its form.

But how come its only Catholics that get it in Christian denominations? I am not talking about other religions because they may do but too broad a discussion perhaps I don’t know
Click to expand...
A could notes:
  1. Scruples per se do not = OCD though one who suffers from OCD can have scruples.
  2. Scrupulosity is not a “Catholic only” difficulty. Rather it is cross cultural-religions. Anyone (since we all have a conscience) --can struggle with such in the variety of forms that it can take…
Catholic theology and Spiritual Direction over the long history of the Church -(and being quite developed in areas of say spiritual direction etc) has though certainly provided a body of writings and experience in dealing with such.

And a forum such as this can attract those who seek remedy for their difficulties.

(the main remedy it is important to note -is a regular confessor)
 
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