Is fornication a norm these days for both men and women?

[Mirdath]

And I agree with the poster about subcultures. If you go to clubs and raves and places like that, you will get that kind of crowd. Water seeks its own level. If you don’t like shallow, put your nets out into the deep.

While the ‘nice boots’ pickup line is a goth joke for a reason, it’s not particularly fair to single out most subcultures. Ordinary picket-fence-and-apple-pie folk can be just as depraved as those who look like freaks on the outside, just as easily.

It is more that the young in general are thinking less of marriage as an institution. With well over half of all marriages ending in divorce, who can really blame them? The examples they’re getting from those who are their elders and should be their betters are, shall we say, severely lacking.

Also, Abira, Liberanosamalo, Lady Cygnus: this is what I was talking about, ‘purity balls’. WARNING: article is from Glamour magazine and features bikini-clad banner ads on the side, at least for me. Caveat clicker.

 

[Mijoy2]

I would completely disagree. I think most young single women–college, twenty-thirty somethings do NOT view sex as a path to marriage. Quite the opposite–they have discovered that they can indulge in a very full and active sex life without any need for marriage. I think this is particularly rampant on college campuses and in the club scene in larger metropolitan areas. Past “polite society” taboos against a smorgasbord of practices like performing sexual acts in public, in groups, in front of cameras, anonymously, in association with drug use and/or homosexual experimentation have long since fallen aside. There is no fear of pregnancy, a (foolish) underappreciation for the perils of STDs and a desire to try on many options of BEFORE commiting for the long-term–somewhat akin to shoe shopping in an expensive boutique.

.

I couldn’t agree more. Premarital sex, among singles is not only routine, but an expected lifestyle. Dabbling in homosexuality has become an almost admirable experimental activity. Purity, even an attempt at purity is a laughable idea.

The Catholic concept is, I truly believe, as rare in practice as gooney-bird hunting. You’d never know it when you spend time in these forums.

I hope not to be misunderstood. I have grown to learn the beauty of the truth of what the Catholic Church teaches. I just firmly believe its practive is monumentally rare in reality and not taken seriously, even among most Catholics.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Are you asking only women? If yes then simply ignore me.

Unfortunately I do believe that fornication is a norm for both. The very irreligious secular society of today is build upon the doctrene of relativism and utilitarianism, where “what is right for you is good”. This basically pretty much destroys a great amount of moral standards. Sexuality is no longer understood properly since sexual pleasure and reproduction are no longer understood as one but rather as two distinct realities.

 

[Abira]

Also, Abira, Liberanosamalo, Lady Cygnus: this is what I was talking about, ‘purity balls’. WARNING: article is from Glamour magazine and features bikini-clad banner ads on the side, at least for me. Caveat clicker.

Ok this makes more sense now… I’m not sure how necessary it all is though. Peer pressure is more important in how someone will behave… I know is shouldn’t be, but it is…

I also agree with the part about not sidelining subcultures as being more depraved… I could name countless things I have seen in ‘normal’ places that are probably more shocking than my earlier post… but I won’t relive them now as I’ve only just felt rid of the flashbacks!

S

 

[PauloFreire2]

“Is fornication a norm these days for both men and women?”

Yes. It’s normative for adults to have pre-marital sex. It’s definitely the norm.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

My over-40 peers who actually have started dating again tell me that if you don’t sleep with a man by the third date, you’re history. I have a sneaking suspicion they are telling the truth.

 

[melbourne_guy]

Yes fornification is the norm in my generation, in fact to call someone a virgin is considered a harsh insult.

 

[PauloFreire2]

Yeah…when I was young I liked the idea, truthfully. Now, it sort of sickens me. It’s immoral, I know, but my main objection is that it leads to many other kinds of problems – STDs, unwanted pregnancy, premature marriage, with inevitable divorce, broken homes, etc., etc. It’s better for everybody that people abstain.

 

[EarthSoujourner]

Maybe it’s the norm…but I’ve never been normal

I’ve made a commitment to wait until marriage. It’s really difficult, but at least I have a boyfriend who is not pressuring me (we’ve been together six months. I’m a virgin, he’s not.) One thing that has always kept me going is that I couldn’t emotionally handle sleeping with somebody and then possibly breaking up. It would devastate me.

Also, no one has mentioned the “secondary virginity” or celibacy movement where people who had premarital sex are recommiting themselves to abstinence.

Originally posted by Abira

That said, the last time i was in a club I sat down to have a drink and the woman sat next to me suddenly…

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: I’ve seen a lot, but wow, that’s nasty! Can’t someone get kicked out of a public place for that?

 

[stbruno]

Crime is on the rise too, but that doesn’t make criminal activity “the norm”.

civitas.org.uk/hwu/cohabitation.php.

Today many people of marriageable age, mainly those aged in their twenties and thirties, are choosing to cohabit. Cohabitation means that unmarried persons of either the same or opposite sex who are not related are living in the same household. The percentage of these couples has risen tenfold since 1960 and seventy-four percent since 1990. The percentage of unmarried couples has risen over 1200 percent since 1960, when there was one cohabiting couple for every ninety married couples. Today, there is one cohabiting couple for every twelve married couples, with over twenty-five percent of women ages twenty-five to thirty-nine cohabiting at the present time and forty-one percent aged fifteen to forty-four having cohabited at some point in their lives. Cohabitation is considered a threat to modern marriage, with just below fifty percent of cohabitating couples ever marrying, lowering the marriage rate the world over.
There are many reasons why people choose to cohabit, including the idea that living together before marriage will allow couples to discover what marriage would be like with another person. More than sixty percent of high school-aged children agreed that cohabitation is beneficial, allowing couples to “get to know each other better” before entering into marriage.

I think that cohabitation has become a norm and young people find it acceptable even if it may effect them adversely as to having two parents raise them.

 

[edwest2]

Speaking generally, the media does promote fornication as a norm. Practicing Catholics generally do not promote fornication. The Church certainly doesn’t.

I think Catholics should focus on what the Church teaches and teach that to their children, relying also on the Holy Spirit of God. In the end, your son and daughter need to have the Word of God active in their lives so that when temptations present themselves, they are equipped to make the right choice. This not out of fear but out of a healthy understanding that fornication is sin and that each one of them is responsible. With God as their foundation, He is their judge and the renewer of their mind and conscience.

God bless,
Ed

 

[manualman]

This is even in question???

I have friends who have done marriage prep classes in their parish for about 10 years now. They say about 75% of the couples that go through the program are cohabitating. They manage to talk about 10% into realizing the problem with it and getting them to change before the wedding.

I won’t call it ‘normal’ but it is sadly typical.

 

[TheGoodLife]

Hah, I feel a bond with all of you who dislike the Friends show. My husband is a regular watcher of the show, but its storylines are so morally loose that I can’t stomach watching it.

As for the OP’s question, yes, fornication has become the norm these days. Not to imply that ALL single people are doing it, but it’s definitely not a shameful thing to do anymore. And, in many cases, if a woman doesn’t choose to have sex with a man, that man will go on to someone who will. Not to imply that all of these men are dogs in heat, but some want to ‘test the merchandise’ before committing to a life together. And plenty of women are like this as well.

I think the reason for this is maybe partly because of the higher divorce rates and partly because of not needing to marry at an earlier age anymore. Some of these young adults witnessed their parents divorce and they don’t want to get stuck in a futile marriage just so they can have sex. And since lots of people are marrying at a later age, it becomes harder to wait to have sex until marriage. Also, the darned ‘anything goes’ media of today can’t be helping things either.

 

[TheGoodLife]

This is even in question???

I have friends who have done marriage prep classes in their parish for about 10 years now. They say about 75% of the couples that go through the program are cohabitating. They manage to talk about 10% into realizing the problem with it and getting them to change before the wedding.

I won’t call it ‘normal’ but it is sadly typical.

Sadly, my husband and I were one of those cohabitating couples. He was dead-set on us living together before marriage so we could see if we’d be right together and I didn’t want to lose him. He’s a good man in many ways, but I knew if I were to say no, that he’d easily find another woman to fill my place (well, okay, not *that *easily ). But, luckily, it turned out well for us. We celebrated our 9th anniversary last month.

 

[Abira]

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: I’ve seen a lot, but wow, that’s nasty! Can’t someone get kicked out of a public place for that?

apparently not, don’t know if the owners were aware or if anyone told them. I wouldn’t have known what to say really.

S

 

[ltbpoe43]

Why is it the norm? Just look at all the media that shows this behavior as “normal” and “expected”. The celebs do it, the athletes do it, royalty does it, teachers and students (which is really scarey!). Look at those crazy bachelor and dating reality shows - can you really fall in love that superficially on camera so quickly? You rarely hear anyone call them to task for it as unacceptable. Even the Hallmark channel had a show once where the “bad” guy loved the prairie widow woman.

It really makes it difficult for a parent to talk to their senior graduate kids going off to college and instilling what reality is, what behavior is expected, encouraged, and pledged to. The promise is one thing, prayer and patience is quite another.

I am hoping the occurrence trend starts to drop off though. The news and media also shows how often these relationships are fleeting, the dangers, the disease, the disappointment and without any substance to sustain a relationship. Why don’t young folks remember that!!!

My wife and I waited. Married 25 years this July. The reason we married was because we loved one another as individuals as God created us. The physical attraction is just an added bonus which enhances the richness of the relationship - but its not everything and certainly won’t get you through the tough times. That takes real unconditional love, lots of work, and prayers with God’s grace.

 

[edwest2]

Don’t wait to teach your kids. Turn off the TV. Talk to each other. My parents taught me how to behave, including around women. Yes, the media noise level is pretty high, but instill in your children a trust in God and what God says is right. This is what got me to pause and think plenty of times.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Greg27]

In my pre-conversion days, I did have a short sexual relationship outside of marriage which resulted in disaster. While I have up to this point never had ‘real’ sex again, I have engaged in other forms of sex (such as over the internet) I would not do now. Given none of these forms of sex ended in any kind of lasting relationship or happiness, it was with a sad sigh of bitterness the wisdom of the older traditions and norms governing sex became apparent over the modern ones.

Certainly I think sex has to be confined to marriage or for those who are non-Christians, sex should really only be permissable inside a very committed and strong relationship. Otherwise it just becomes an unstable and chaotic minefield of selfishness and uncertainty and confusion. There have to be some norms, rather than everyone simply making the rules up for themselves as they go along.

 

[CCM08]

This is even in question???

I have friends who have done marriage prep classes in their parish for about 10 years now. They say about 75% of the couples that go through the program are cohabitating. They manage to talk about 10% into realizing the problem with it and getting them to change before the wedding.

I won’t call it ‘normal’ but it is sadly typical.

When I was doing RCIA the parish it was at got a new priest, middle aged man from Poland. Even though I went on to become Orthodox I chat with him on a regular basis, he’s a good guy. Anyway, he took over the marriage prep class. The priest before him was a rather liberal guy, a product of the late 60’s and early 70’s RC seminaries. I guess after finding out the whole extend of what was going Fr. Piotr stood up in front of the class and ask everyone that was cohabiting to please stand. I guess a little more than half the class stood up. He told them to leave, stop cohabitating, go to confession, and then they’d talk about returning to marriage prep classes.
Personally, I just don’t see why people that don’t practice a religion want to get married in a church.

 

[bilop]

When I was doing RCIA the parish it was at got a new priest, middle aged man from Poland. Even though I went on to become Orthodox I chat with him on a regular basis, he’s a good guy. Anyway, he took over the marriage prep class. The priest before him was a rather liberal guy, a product of the late 60’s and early 70’s RC seminaries. I guess after finding out the whole extend of what was going Fr. Piotr stood up in front of the class and ask everyone that was cohabiting to please stand. I guess a little more than half the class stood up. He told them to leave, stop cohabitating, go to confession, and then they’d talk about returning to marriage prep classes.
Personally, I just don’t see why people that don’t practice a religion want to get married in a church.

The thing is, for a lot of people getting married (and having children) is what brings them back to the Church. I was a very unobservant Catholic (and likely in a state of mortal sin) for 20 yrs. before beginning to date my wife.

For a lot of people it is like St. Augustine, Lord give me chastity, but not yet.

If the Church is too harsh on people, they won’t come back.

Isn’t it better that a co-habiting couple get married, and stop being in mortal sin? Certainly they need to go to confession before the wedding, but if we only gave the sacraments to non-sinners…well ther’d be no priest shortage

God Bless