Is Free Will Biblical?

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I have heard some Calvinists claim that it is not.

Can free will co-exist with predestination?

Here’s a verse to get us started:

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, `Blessed [is] He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ "

 

[christian77]

I have heard some Calvinists claim that it is not.

Can free will co-exist with predestination?

Here’s a verse to get us started:

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, `Blessed [is] He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ "

Please help me understand your view and position on what you mean by free will. Did you come to Christ by your own free will?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Please help me understand your view and position on what you mean by free will. Did you come to Christ by your own free will?

I accept the Catholic position both as a matter of faith and because it makes absolute sense to me.

Here are a few quotes from the Catechism which summarize my beliefs:

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.42

1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

2002 God’s free initiative demands man’s free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy. The promises of “eternal life” respond, beyond all hope, to this desire:

 

[christian77]

I accept the Catholic position both as a matter of faith and because it makes absolute sense to me.

Here are a few quotes from the Catechism which summarize my beliefs:

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.42

1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

2002 God’s free initiative demands man’s free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy. The promises of “eternal life” respond, beyond all hope, to this desire:

The Catholic position on predestination, free will, etc is much more broad that you try to make it to be. Actually, I know a form of double predestination is allowed to believe as a Roman Catholic. So in your own words, did you come to Jesus Christ by your own free will?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

The Catholic position on predestination, free will, etc is much more broad that you try to make it to be. Actually, I know a form of double predestination is allowed to believe as a Roman Catholic. So in your own words, did you come to Jesus Christ by your own free will?

I gave you direct quotes from the catechism which clearly express my views.

I believe that we can only come to Christ through God’s grace, but that he reaches out to all men.

I believe this:

2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. God brings to completion in us what he has begun, "since he who completes his work by cooperating with our will began by working so that we might will it:"50

 

[christian77]

I gave you direct quotes from the catechism which clearly express my views.

I believe that we can only come to Christ through God’s grace, but that he reaches out to all men.

I believe this:

2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. God brings to completion in us what he has begun, "since he who completes his work by cooperating with our will began by working so that we might will it:"50

How can your will be free if the Holy Spirit is influencing your will to come to Christ? Free will tends to imply that there is no outside influence to change your will. If you believe the Holy Spirit aided you to come to Christ, then why doesn’t everyone come to Christ? Is there something better in your that caused you to come to Christ? Have you considered John chapter 1 in regards to your thread topic on free will?

The Word Became Flesh
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, [1] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, [2] and his own people [3] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, [4] who is at the Father’s side, [5] he has made him known.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

How can your will be free if the Holy Spirit is influencing your will to come to Christ? Free will tends to imply that there is no outside influence to change your will. If you believe the Holy Spirit aided you to come to Christ, then why doesn’t everyone come to Christ? Is there something better in your that caused you to come to Christ? Have you considered John chapter 1 in regards to your thread topic on free will?

 

[cfrancis]

How can your will be free if the Holy Spirit is influencing your will to come to Christ? Free will tends to imply that there is no outside influence to change your will. If you believe the Holy Spirit aided you to come to Christ, then why doesn’t everyone come to Christ? Is there something better in your that caused you to come to Christ? Have you considered John chapter 1 in regards to your thread topic on free will?

Your understanding of free will is flawed.
Free will does not mean free from influence.
Free will does mean the choices we make are made by us, not someone else. It means having the ability to respond to those influences to which we choose to respond.

I would agrue that without free will, there is no true love.

 

[Frontline]

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.42

So basically you believe that Grace is necessary but not sufficient to bring about a favorable response to the gospel?

 

[cfrancis]

Frontline,
I wanted you to know I have a better understanding of the Calvinist position, thanks to this article by James Akin. I can see where I mis-stated and misunderstood your position.

Chris

 

[Asimis]

So basically you believe that Grace is necessary but not sufficient to bring about a favorable response to the gospel?

Under the Molinist view, which is the one I believe chestertonrules holds, grace is sufficient to enable man to make a salutary act. Under the influence of this grace, he can, by his free will, make the grace efficacious by cooperating with it. The positive response itself comes from man, who “makes use” of grace.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

So basically you believe that Grace is necessary but not sufficient to bring about a favorable response to the gospel?

What do you mean by response?

 

[Frontline]

I have heard some Calvinists claim that it is not.

Can free will co-exist with predestination?

Here’s a verse to get us started:

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, `Blessed [is] He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ "

That people are not willing is only half of the truth, and in no way proves why they were unwilling. How do people become willing? Do they will to become willing? Or must they "be made willing in the day of [God’s] power- Psalm 110:3?

I believe the latter. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ "was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. (John 1:10)

This passage goes on to teach that "He came to his own, and his own received him not" (v. 11). The Bible clearly teaches that men reject Christ by nature - for all men are “by nature children of wrath,” (Eph. 2:3) and therefore "this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, but people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.” (John 3:19, 20).

Is this the end of the story though? Does God sit back an allow his entire creation to perish - or does He move in power to save those whom He has chosen from the foundation of the world (His elect)?

I affirm the latter, and so do the Scriptures. How does God bring people to salvation - How does He bring them to faith in Christ?

The very next line in John chapter 1 demonstrates that only people who have been born of God, actually believe in Christ. So basically - the new birth, or regeneration is that which brings about a new heart that is willing to come to Christ (Ez. 35:26; Acts 16:14) - But the biblical fact is that only God elect are brought to faith by Him - (Acts 13:48).

“But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,** who were** born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” (v. 13).

Clearly - those who believed in Christ were those who already “were” born again. This truth is confirmed by John again in 1 John 5:1, “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.”

If you can prove that people repent, believe, and follow Christ by the power of thier own free will, thereby activating - or at least validating, or effectualizing God’s grace - then please do. But I believe that you have the order backwards. God’s grace regenerates the dead sinner, grants him a new heart and consequently a renrewed and liberated will, thereby effectually drawing him to repentance and faith in Christ.

 

[cfrancis]

If you can prove that people repent, believe, and follow Christ by the power of thier own free will, thereby activating - or at least validating, or effectualizing God’s grace - then please do. But I believe that you have the order backwards. God’s grace regenerates the dead sinner, grants him a new heart and consequently a renrewed and liberated will, thereby effectually drawing him to repentance and faith in Christ.

Would you please highlight where Chesterton said this or the Church teaches this.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

If you can prove that people repent, believe, and follow Christ by the power of thier own free will, thereby activating - or at least validating, or effectualizing God’s grace - then please do. But I believe that you have the order backwards. God’s grace regenerates the dead sinner, grants him a new heart and consequently a renrewed and liberated will, thereby effectually drawing him to repentance and faith in Christ.

We need God’s grace, and he grants it to us.

We must respond to his grace in order to persevere.

It is not either/or, it is both.

 

[Frontline]

What do you mean by response?

Well sinners must respond to the call of the gospel to repent of their sin and believe on Christ for salvation. My observation from the above quotes is that the Catholic Church teaches that God’s grace is necessary by not sufficient to bring about a favorable response [from the sinner] toward the gospel.

The Catholic Church then, denies the sufficiency of God’s grace, and teaches that the sinner’s work of “cooperation” is needed to perfect or complete, or make the grace of God effectual and successful. If man cannot provide a favorable disposition toward God’s grace, then he cannot be helped any further, but is hopeless. The Reformed faith affirms that God’s grace not only brings salvation to the sinner [offer of the gospel] but also brings the sinner to salvation [effectual drawing of the Spirit].

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Well sinners must respond to the call of the gospel to repent of their sin and believe on Christ for salvation. My observation from the above quotes is that the Catholic Church teaches that God’s grace is necessary by not sufficient to bring about a favorable response [from the sinner] toward the gospel.

The Catholic Church then, denies the sufficiency of God’s grace, and teaches that the sinner’s work of “cooperation” is needed to perfect or complete, or make the grace of God effectual and successful. If man cannot provide a favorable disposition toward God’s grace, then he cannot be helped any further, but is hopeless. The Reformed faith affirms that God’s grace not only brings salvation to the sinner [offer of the gospel] but also brings the sinner to salvation [effectual drawing of the Spirit].

Who responds?

We do, hopefully.

If we don’t respond, will we be saved?

 

[Frontline]

Who responds?

We do, hopefully.

If we don’t respond, will we be saved?

We respond according to the effectual working of the Holy Spirit.

This means that we respond NOT from an innate ability to cooperate with God’s grace, but rather we respond from a new heart and renewed will that is granted by God in regeneration. Once the heart has been changed from stone to flesh, and we receieve ears to hear, and we see the glory of Christ by an effectual revelation - we can do nothing BUT respond favorably. This is not robotic, but gracious - like the overwhelming captivation of falling in love. We become the willing servants of our new heart and nature - granted by God to the elect only.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

We respond according to the effectual working of the Holy Spirit.

This means that we respond NOT from an innate ability to cooperate with God’s grace, but rather we respond from a new heart and renewed will that is granted by God in regeneration. Once the heart has been changed from stone to flesh, and we receieve ears to hear, and we see the glory of Christ by an effectual revelation - we can do nothing BUT respond favorably. This is not robotic, but gracious - like the overwhelming captivation of falling in love. We become servants of our new heart and nature - granted by God to the elect only.

That is not a response, it is robotic.

Why aren’t all the Jews saved? Was God’s grace insufficient? Clearly, Jesus wanted to gather them up.

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

 

[Frontline]

What is the definition of FREE WILL?

If we can have a definition of the term - we can then begin to discuss whether this concept is biblical or not.