Is Free Will Biblical?

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Frontline said:
This is not a matter of the “free” will of man - but rather this is an issue concerning the Will of God.

The Reformed Faith affirms that there are TWO aspects to God’s will - 1) Preceptive Will 2) Decreetive Will.

This means that in a sense - God wills the salvation of all men - for He has commanded all men to repent and believe on Christ. This is what we call His “revealed will” - or His “will of command” - some theologians have called it His “permissive will”, for even though He commands it, He does nothing to secure the accomplishment of what He commands - He rather “permits” men to choose whether they will heed the command or not.

PLEASE NOTE - though men have the ability to sin, they never have the right to sin.

But God does all things with a definite purpose and absolute foreknowledge - working all things according to the counsel of His own [sovereign] will. God’s will of Decee, or His “perfect will” - or His “efficient will” always comes to pass. When God wills in this way, like He willed for Christ to be crucified - it must come to pass - even if it comes to pass through the rebellion of wicked men who are violating the “revealed will” of God (thou shalt not kill). God takes all things into account - for He is omniscient.

For more on this truth - follow this link:

desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/1995/1580_Are_There_Two_Wills_in_God/

Now - The Reformed Faith affirms that Jesus willed the salvation of the children of Jerusalem in the first sense - in that He would if they would, but we deny that He willed their salvation in the second sense of the word - for if He willed their salvation in His eternal decree, then He would have seen to it that they would be brought to repentance and faith in Him.

So - your passage is not a passage that demonstrates free will - (a will that is free to come to Christ) - but rather a will that “will not come” to Christ (John 5:40). This in and of itself cannot prove this ability of will that you claim. It only proves that they were unwilling. The Reformed Faith affirms that all men are naturally unwilling - and naturally resist the gospel call, and will do so until and unless God moves in power to quicken and cause the dead sinner to repent and believe.

Let me ask you a good question:

Why do you commit sin?
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Grace and Peace,

My problem with this explanation is that it seems to be arguing that God is ‘in time’… He is not.
 
IMO …the biggest problem with apparent free will has to do with the sovereignity of God and the sovereignity of man on issues like salvation. If God is not completely sovereign in all things, we cannot have faith that God will accomplish all that He promises. We are but dust, and were created to glorify God and enjoy Him. And we all know that faith pleases God. Why can we trust Him in all things, because He is the sovereign Lord. Did you know God created elect angels and non-elect angels according to the Bible? Things in this universe cannot happen by chance, luck or blind fate. God is either governing all His creation, or He is not. There is no middle ground.
 
christian77 said:
IMO …the biggest problem with apparent free will has to do with the sovereignity of God and the sovereignity of man on issues like salvation. If God is not completely sovereign in all things, we cannot have faith that God will accomplish all that He promises. We are but dust, and were created to glorify God and enjoy Him. And we all know that faith pleases God. Why can we trust Him in all things, because He is the sovereign Lord. Did you know God created elect angels and non-elect angels according to the Bible? Things in this universe cannot happen by chance, luck or blind fate. God is either governing all His creation, or He is not. There is no middle ground.
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St. Maximos the Confessor once stated that God gives the grace to move the willing heart.

We must understand such as a synergism (i.e. participation) but not at the expense of God’s overall Providence to work out Salvation for us. What we see in the angel speaking of the future of John the Baptist was what was going to be chosen to be done by John of his own will in participation with that of God’s Will for Him and in His role in God’s Providence. Try and see the big picture. God’s Omniscience isn’t confused by our Freewill. He is never surprised.
 
chrisb said:
St. Maximos the Confessor once stated that God gives the grace to move the willing heart.
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That is simply not true.

God gives grace to move the unwilling heart, and causes men to be willing.
 
chrisb said:
St. Maximos the Confessor once stated that God gives the grace to move the willing heart.

We must understand such as a synergism (i.e. participation) but not at the expense of God’s overall Providence to work out Salvation for us. What we see in the angel speaking of the future of John the Baptist was what was going to be chosen to be done by John of his own will in participation with that of God’s Will for Him and in His role in God’s Providence. Try and see the big picture. God’s Omniscience isn’t confused by our Freewill. He is never surprised.
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Good post! I do believe that a forensic justification is monergistic in nature. God justifies His enemies for His good pleasure and His own glory I do believe that sanctification is synergistic in nature. Salvation is definely a process, and if some Protestants miss this truth, then they may have misrepresented the Protestant position on justification. There is no justification without progressive santicification. Easy believism, altar calls, and sinner’s prayers are in vain if God is not changing the professing Christian into the image of His Son.
 
Frontline said:
That is simply not true.

God gives grace to move the unwilling heart, and causes men to be willing.
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Sovereign grace given to the Elect? Since all humans rely on the grace of God in our daily lives, does God give different kinds of grace to His chosen ones? Is God the sole cause of our adoption as redeemed children of God? This promise and truth is made to His chosen ones. Those who love God are the ones chosen by God to see Jesus Christ as being desirable. Why don’t unbelievers treasure Jesus Christ above all things? Because they are unable to see Jesus as who He is due to their sin and love for the darkness.

Romans 8:28

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
 
That is not an answer or an explanation, and it clearly doesn’t address the point of the passage.

Jesus wanted the Jews to come to him, but they were unwilling.

Why didn’t he force them to come if that was what he wanted?

It is a matter of human will rejecting God, not God rejecting humans.
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christian77 said:
IMO …the biggest problem with apparent free will has to do with the sovereignity of God and the sovereignity of man on issues like salvation. If God is not completely sovereign in all things, we cannot have faith that God will accomplish all that He promises. We are but dust, and were created to glorify God and enjoy Him. And we all know that faith pleases God. Why can we trust Him in all things, because He is the sovereign Lord. Did you know God created elect angels and non-elect angels according to the Bible? Things in this universe cannot happen by chance, luck or blind fate. God is either governing all His creation, or He is not. There is no middle ground.
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God chose, by his soveriegn will, to create man in his image with a free will. He wants us all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, but he won’t force us.

Do you deny that God wants all men to be saved?

Do you deny that God has given us promises conditioned on certain behavior on our part?
 
chrisb said:
St. Maximos the Confessor once stated that God gives the grace to move the willing heart.

We must understand such as a synergism (i.e. participation) but not at the expense of God’s overall Providence to work out Salvation for us. What we see in the angel speaking of the future of John the Baptist was what was going to be chosen to be done by John of his own will in participation with that of God’s Will for Him and in His role in God’s Providence. Try and see the big picture. God’s Omniscience isn’t confused by our Freewill. He is never surprised.
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I believe this is consistent with Molinism. Do you know if this is the case?

From what I understand of Molinism, I agree with it.

It is complicated, however.
 
christian77 said:
CHESTERTONRULES;4684965:
Do you mind studying Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 and get back to me with your thoughts in regards to the Jews? I believe there are elect Jews and non-elect Jews. So too, God has elect Gentiles and non-elect Gentiles. Augustianism rules.
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Here’s what Augustine said:

But since there are some persons who so defend God’s grace as to deny man’s free will, or who suppose that free will is denied when grace is defended, I have determined to write somewhat on this point …

Chapter 2 [II.]— He Proves the Existence of Free Will in Man from the Precepts Addressed to Him by God.
Now He has revealed to us, through His Holy Scriptures, that there is in a man a free choice of will. But how He has revealed this I do not recount in human language, but in divine. There is, to begin with, the fact that God’s precepts themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards.

newadvent.org/fathers/1510.htm
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christian77 said:
CHESTERTONRULES;4684965:
Do you mind studying Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 and get back to me with your thoughts in regards to the Jews? I believe there are elect Jews and non-elect Jews. So too, God has elect Gentiles and non-elect Gentiles. Augustianism rules.
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Romans 10
Romans 10
1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, **they did not submit **to God’s righteousness.

Romans 11
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Regarding Obedience to the Church:

Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good.
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Frontline said:
That is simply not true.

God gives grace to move the unwilling heart, and causes men to be willing.
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That doesn’t square with this passage:

Matt 23

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 
You all need to agree on definitions of terms. I still see two definitions of salvation and of free will. Until we can agree on terms, Frontline is going to keep confusing all the Bible verses into one consistent error.
 
spoiltvictorian said:
You all need to agree on definitions of terms. I still see two definitions of salvation and of free will. Until we can agree on terms, Frontline is going to keep confusing all the Bible verses into one consistent error.
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Which terms do you believe are causing the communication problems?
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Which terms do you believe are causing the communication problems?
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Salvation - as predestined by God, as worked for us on the Cross, as we convert to Christianity, and as we die a Christian.

Free will - as we are able to choose anything, as we are able to do good or evil, as we are able to choose salvation, as we are able to reject God’s attempt to save us, as we are able to reject salvation once saved.

I think I’ve seen all of those definitions floating around here. It’s confusing.
 
spoiltvictorian said:
Salvation - as predestined by God, as worked for us on the Cross, as we convert to Christianity, and as we die a Christian.

Free will - as we are able to choose anything, as we are able to do good or evil, as we are able to choose salvation, as we are able to reject God’s attempt to save us, as we are able to reject salvation once saved.

I think I’ve seen all of those definitions floating around here. It’s confusing.
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I see what you mean.

Good point.
 
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