Is frugality advice realistic?

[Xantippe]

Here’s a blog post from one of my favorite new blogger finds, The Practical Conservative:

thepracticalconservative.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/when-you-cant-afford-to-be-frugal-or-unexamined-assumptions-conservatives-have-about-frugal-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-6421

She’s apparently an experienced Protestant homeschooling mother, as well as a contrarian conservative with an interest in SAHM history and hopes to write a book on the subject. I’ve really enjoyed going through her archives.

Here are some quotes from the blog post. I’ll add some comments of my own in a follow-up.

“It is possible to make your own curtains, to store meat in small portions, to bake your own bread, to make your own household cleaning products and to keep a price book, to name some fairly typical tips one will run across on the old intertubes with a quick google. But frugality of these types is generally not compatible with the current domestic setups of most American housewives. They have no spare capital for a deep freezer, or to buy meat in bulk quantities to take advantage of sales or direct-purchase opportunities. They don’t have domestic help even on an occasional basis, so whatever they do has to be compatible with kids underfoot. And of course kids aren’t young forever, but how can good habits be established when it’s full-tilt survival mode when they are young?”

“A lot of frugal tips involve large amounts of ongoing physical labor that is difficult to manage during pregnancies. If you haven’t spent your years growing up doing that kind of labor, you are unprepared for the extent of it later in life. You’re also out of luck if pregnancy is hard on your body.”

“I come back a lot to the physical stuff because there’s a parallel unexamined assumption among conservatives (not just the male ones) that modern technology means no real physical labor is necessary for a housewife to expend. Pregnancy is always easy and quick to recover from, barely a speed bump, nursing is also no big, not even requiring extra food or effort (except of course many women switch to formula with “many” kids precisely because they can hand a bottle off and let the older kids feed baby so they can get stuff done). And even if all that stuff is a little bit difficult, KIDS R FREE. There’s a weird fixation on the infant and toddler years as being super-cheap by default among conservatives and this is used to extrapolate that children are extremely cheap to raise to 18-21 years because somehow breastmilk production costs nothing (not even calories, it’s like magic) and you can just rely on an infinite supply of thrift stores with appropriate clothing and insert all the rest of the stuff you hear from conservatives about how totally cheap it is to raise infants/toddlers, so therefore have eight.”

“Parallel dismissal of the importance of child spacing or domestic support in being able to have children doing chores effectively at young ages.”

“Dismissal of chaotic early years as a major obstacle to domestic tranquility and structure, while assuming that such structure is there (no need for a sitter while homeschooling, for example, because infants and toddlers and young kids will just play quietly while you instruct older children…somehow, or alternatively that older children will not resent the play of younger children who aren’t ready for academics partying in front of them because no big kid ever envied a little kid getting to play instead of write an essay or do math problems).”

There’s also some good stuff in her comments.

I’ll add some thoughts of my own in a minute.

 

[Xantippe]

Here are some of my thoughts on The Practical Conservative’s posts about the mythology of frugality:

1. I’ve never had the skills necessary to make curtains. My mom sewed seriously, though, and I have passed on the torch by putting my big kids in (expensive) sewing classes.
2. In general, my own home training was pretty limited. I think I did learn a thing or two about cooking (especially the year when my mom had cancer), but what I learned about housecleaning was mostly that it’s what we do when company is coming. I’ve put my oldest in a summer cooking class the last few years and hope to do so with my other kids. That has already paid off–oldest has cooked for us quite a number of times. Theoretically, I could have taught the kids at home, but at a certain age, kids learn better from people outside their families.
3. My big girl is almost 13 and she’s really good with her 2-year-old baby sister. I’m amazed how good she is. However, when my big girl was the same age that my youngest is now, my middle child was an infant. My big girl was not nearly so helpful as a 2-year-old big sister! In fact, we spent a whole lot of money on babysitters back then. At the time, I had no idea how hard it was going to be to take care of a toddler and an infant at the same time.
4. I have baked a lot of bread over the years in a bread machine. That said, I had the advantage of starting my bread machine experiments as a young bride, so I was able to figure it out in peace and quiet and to tolerate some disasters.
5. I have a lot of concerns about bulk meat storage in home chest freezers, having been around a few freezer disasters in my time. I’m also the survivor of a pantry moth infestation where I had to throw away almost all the stuff in my cupboard. I do not encourage massive food hoarding of any kind, especially if you’re not in a financial position to lose it all.
6. 100% agreement on what The Practical Conservative says about pregnancy as an obstacle to frugality. Or really any functioning at all, actually.
7. I would also add that going to the grocery store with children (big or small) is not a recipe for bargain shopping.
8. Regarding breastfeeding being cheap, it’s worth pointing out that not everybody can breastfeed, even if they desperately want to. Those little canisters of formula cost $15 apiece.
9. Clothes have gotten way cheaper than they used to be. Hallelujah! Our 2-year-old now mostly wears $6 mock crocs from the grocery store. I feel like such a sucker for having bought $40 Striderites for my oldest’s first shoes when I was a new mom.
10. Not everybody has the intestinal fortitude to deal with cloth diapering.

More in a bit!

 

[Xantippe]

1. The Practical Conservative is correct about the early years being relatively cheap. With little kids, it is possible to provide just about everything they need inexpensively in-house. The bigger they get, the less feasible it is to do that. (Example: 4-year college educations.)
2. TPC talks a lot elsewhere about how much hostility there is out in US culture to the idea of “help” and not just doing it all alone and how historically weird that is for mothers of prosperous families to be expected to manage everything alone. If you look at the Bible, there are servants everywhere (the famous Proverbs 31 woman, for instance, seems very well-staffed). In the past, people that could afford help, had help, and they didn’t spend 5 minutes feeling bad about it.
3. I personally think that there’s a bit of a time warp going on with regard to a lot of frugality advice, which assumes that the cost of consumer stuff is the main obstacle to frugality. In reality, new clothes are cheap, new basic household goods are very inexpensive (thanks, Walmart!), and food has never been cheaper. Stuff is cheap. What is expensive is LABOR (daycare, medical care, restaurants, the plumber, etc) and housing costs.

 

[CradleJourney]

1. The Practical Conservative is correct about the early years being relatively cheap. With little kids, it is possible to provide just about everything they need inexpensively in-house. The bigger they get, the less feasible it is to do that. (Example: 4-year college educations.)

I will suggest that it starts well before college educations. I will be spending approx. $2000 within the next 3 weeks to send four of my kids “back to school” - and that’s public - not private school. And no, I’m not talking laptops, or name brand apparel, either - and that only includes one pair of shoes.

What it does include is over $425 in “book fees” charged by our public schools here. Then, as a gifted senior, one is taking five AP classes - which they require you to pay for the associated AP test so that’s another $200-$300. Band shirts (mandatory, even if just taking class - not marching) and gym uniforms another $45.

Then, since I’m a firm believer in that having a busy, active, involved teen is a successful one (proved by my two oldest who’ve graduated), there’s the $360 in “pay to participate” fees so two of them can be on a high school team. Of course, I’m a crazy parent who then actually wants to attend the games - and have to bring youngest along - so that’s another $150 for a family admission pass (way cheaper than paying separate). Of course the participation fee doesn’t include practice tees/jerseys, mandatory food donations for meals before games, socks, etc - so add in another $175.

Can’t leave out the youngest two so there’s $90 in “club” fees for them to do XC and choir. Plus uniforms/tees - $45.

Being a responsible and knowledgeable parent, I join the PTO’s - another $15, and get my background check done so I can volunteer at events ($25).

Having a second teen enter advanced math means a second graphing calculator (specific brand - $99 - $129), taking a foreign language means a dictionary ($15). Mandatory fundraiser $20.

Specifics on supply list such as purple highlighters, flash drives, Expo dry erase marker sets, multiple reams of copy paper, specific size/brand ring binders, and bookstore purchased only art boxes quickly add up to another $100 plus add in another $20 or so for all the basic supplies (the ones that are actually thrown on the back-to-school sales).

One pair of shoes (the rest are okay enough to stall for another month or two) - $65. Shorts long enough to meet dress code standards - 12 pairs, or approx. another $120.

Senior pics require a $25 sitting fee, and purchasing the basic photo package so the youngest doesn’t feel left out by being the only kid not photo’d is another $25.

Since I want them to have an actual hot lunch a couple times a week, I need to deposit $90 into lunch accounts.

---

Could I tell them that none of them will be allowed any sport or choir, no band class, no foreign language, no AP classes, and that I will not be volunteering or joining the PTO? Yes. Perhaps that would be “frugal” - but it’d also (imho) be definitely unrealistic, ridiculously short-sighted and stupid. Kids need activities for social, and physical development. The money spent on this is much better than having them laying around getting out-of-shape and in trouble. The money spent on education (art, AP, advanced math, etc.) is definitely going to pay off when they go to college.

Here, at least, it’s an either/or situation - we have no low-cost/free infra-murals for example or community clubs/gyms for them to hang out at. So, it is, what it is.

But I’ve yet to see any budgeting advice anywhere that includes these type of costs in their plan. It’s like they believe it to be the “good old days” when these things were free or only a token amount.

Private school tuition, homeschooling curriculum/supplies, or public school costs (above) - education for older kids is pricey. And they need stimulation and enrichment as much as young children do - but a trip to the local park, sharing a book, and buying a yard sale toy or two isn’t going to cut it.

 

[pensmama87]

Ooooo, this will be a fun thread.

But I have to bake some oatmeal and then run to the discount grocery store before my husband goes off to work, soooooo…you’ll get my deep thoughts on this subject later.

(Two quick things are that most of the frugality blogs I frequent are very upfront about how bulk buying is impossible to start, but that you start being able to do it after a few weeks when you change your shopping habits to give you some wiggle room. That has been true for me and is a big part of how I keep our food budget to about $3/person/day and we aren’t starving to death.)

(Also YouTube tutorials for how to do stuff. Though sewing is one of those things that just isn’t practical right now because the cost of fabric is so high, so that’s dropped down my “learn how” list. Still a useful skill for TEOTWAWKI, but not a cost-saving measure worth the labor.)

 

[mommy_k]

I pick and choose advice from some experts. Some things are just too out there for me. Once I read to wash baggies-seriously??? Or better yet, take the plastic bag from the newspaper and cut it and wash that… I guess for some it may work. For me I would use a rubbermaid tub instead. (I guess I wash supposed to wash a margine tub, but then that would require buying margarine. And each activity you do to save money may end up costing you more in another area—if you washed all these bags, you have to use water, soap etc…

Some frugality experts also reccommend to make your own detergent. I am wary of this because my machine was expensive and the residue from home made deteregent may mess it up I would be afraid it would mess up my clothes too.

Some reccommend cleaning the shower with vinegar, and not to buy shower or bath cleaner—but then the germs don’t get killed, so perhaps you get sick from this and have to spend dollars at the doctor. Maybe alternatating would work-every other day with vinegar.

The last place I would cut severely back is with the children. They need activities, and doctor visits. Even an expert with a sewing machine, cannot sew a sport jersey and make it pass.

For big things-such as a needing a new couch with kids—I learned how to reupholster, and that helps me save furniture I love and have it look new. Things like this I agree with if you are handy.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Super frugal people just seem to have a lot of time on their hands. Who exactly has time to make homemade cleaners, a homemade meal, clip all the coupons you need, bargain hunt for EVERYTHING, etc. and have time for idk, a life?
Heck, you don’t have time to take Junior to baseball practice, that’s why it isn’t budgeted.

 

[pensmama87]

As far as bulk food, I don’t have concerns about that. Over time, I have obtained more airtight containers to deter pests. I don’t have a huge pantry, but I can stock up on things on sale. We also live in an area where power outages are incredibly infrequent (and I know that because I’ve lived in other areas where you could expect it regularly.) So I take the risk on bulk meat and freezer cooking and so far it has paid off.

I learned that with couponing for toiletries and household goods I could do just as well money-wise, if not better, than if I made the stuff myself (I did used to make my own shampoo and stuff and I just didn’t like it and felt it wasn’t worth it, so I quit.) It doesn’t squick me out to use a silicone cup for feminine hygiene (though “mama cloth” does, even though that’s what everyone did prior to disposable items) or to use “family cloth” or cloth diapers. I do buy paper towels about once every two years.

I have found a recipe for powder laundry detergent that doesn’t hurt my HE machine. I clean the machine every month anyway.

I will say that I agree with the assessment that what is really expensive is other labor. I’m in the third trimester and very tired. I don’t like it, but I have to come to terms with the fact that my house is just going to look like garbage for the next six months and there will probably be sticky spots on the floor. That’s one reason I’m incredibly grateful for some of those blogs because I’ve been able to “cook ahead” a bit and have freezer meals ready. One thing that is upsetting to me is getting outside work and gardening done. It would be so much easier to just hire a guy for a weekend who could be completely dedicated to it, and then it would be done (the daily maintenance stuff is fine with me, but there’s a lot of other stuff that needs doing to get to that point first). As it is, I do half an hour here and there and then weeds grow back and it’s still overall progress, but slow going. I also killed my back the other day hauling tree branches.

It can also be very tiring waiting for someone who’s not pregnant to figure out that yes, I really do need this to be fixed, and no, we can’t afford someone to do it, and this work around stinks, and no, I’m not tall enough/narrow enough in my current condition to get in the space that is required for a fix. But that’s a communication problem and would probably exist even if we weren’t so strapped…it just wouldn’t get highlighted so much.

Cheap baby and toddler years have been the result of a good support network, which I know not everyone has. Almost all of my baby things were supplied by fairly well-off relatives who had the storage space to keep their things until the first relative had a baby. As my oldest gets into preschool I’m learning that the cheap child raising years are over (and oh man, can he eat.)

In my case our frugality is primarily determined by necessity. I do these things because I have to. A few things I am happy to have learned and will probably continue to do even when we have more disposable income. I do have a fairly long list of things to teach my children to do that I have had to learn on the fly with young children in the house, which is hard. So hopefully they’ll at least be able to choose some of those things, instead of feeling like “Well I have to do buy this premade stuff/hire this guy/do things this way” because I just don’t know any other way.

Plus, if the zombies come, maybe they’ll be ready.

 

[pensmama87]

Super frugal people just seem to have a lot of time on their hands. Who exactly has time to make homemade cleaners, a homemade meal, clip all the coupons you need, bargain hunt for EVERYTHING, etc. and have time for idk, a life?
Heck, you don’t have time to take Junior to baseball practice, that’s why it isn’t budgeted.

One is if you live close to stuff, it’s a lot easier (though I do wonder about frugal blog folks who live way out in the sticks.)

I clip coupons when watching TV. I only clip the ones I know I can use.

Once you do something a few times it becomes a lot easier. I don’t use super complicated cleaning recipes.

And there’s necessity as a huge motivating factor. If you literally cannot afford anything else, you do what you have to. That’s kind of the boat I’m in.

I probably sleep a lot less than I should. And it makes me grumpy.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I pick and choose advice from some experts. Some things are just too out there for me. Once I read to wash baggies-seriously??? Or better yet, take the plastic bag from the newspaper and cut it and wash that… I guess for some it may work. For me I would use a rubbermaid tub instead. (I guess I wash supposed to wash a margine tub, but then that would require buying margarine. And each activity you do to save money may end up costing you more in another area—if you washed all these bags, you have to use water, soap etc…

Some frugality experts also reccommend to make your own detergent. I am wary of this because my machine was expensive and the residue from home made deteregent may mess it up I would be afraid it would mess up my clothes too.

Some reccommend cleaning the shower with vinegar, and not to buy shower or bath cleaner—but then the germs don’t get killed, so perhaps you get sick from this and have to spend dollars at the doctor. Maybe alternatating would work-every other day with vinegar.

The last place I would cut severely back is with the children. They need activities, and doctor visits. Even an expert with a sewing machine, cannot sew a sport jersey and make it pass.

For big things-such as a needing a new couch with kids—I learned how to reupholster, and that helps me save furniture I love and have it look new. Things like this I agree with if you are handy.

Actually vinegar is a powerful disinfectant, and this has been known for years. The only drawback is the smell while using it, but after it’s dry it’s ok. Here is an article describing it’s uses:

disinfected.org/does-vinegar-disinfect/

Don’t be afraid to use it.

 

[Sarcelle]

Actually vinegar is a powerful disinfectant, and this has been known for years. The only drawback is the smell while using it, but after it’s dry it’s ok. Here is an article describing it’s uses:

disinfected.org/does-vinegar-disinfect/

Don’t be afraid to use it.

You can clean a lot of things with vinegar, baking soda, or a combination of these. Rock salt also cleans cast iron pans really well.

Most of the Christian frugality websites I run across come from the Christian Reconstructionist people, the same people who are members of Vision Forum. You may also know them as the Quiverful movement. Very Calvinistic.

 

[CradleJourney]

1. 100% agreement on what The Practical Conservative says about pregnancy as an obstacle to frugality. Or really any functioning at all, actually.
2. I would also add that going to the grocery store with children (big or small) is not a recipe for bargain shopping.

Totally agree with you on these.

Also, these sites never seem to factor in the utility factor. Making your own cleaners/using cloth diapers may be cheaper if you use a well. But my water/sewer bill is the third largest bill I have after food and mortgage. Last thing I need is to increase my use.

I do use basic bleach, vinegar, and baking soda for cleaners though. Those three take care of just about every hard surface cleaning / stain treating I need to do. Add in laundry detergent and dish soap from the store and I’m stocked.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Totally agree with you on these.

Also, these sites never seem to factor in the utility factor. Making your own cleaners/using cloth diapers may be cheaper if you use a well. But my water/sewer bill is the third largest bill I have after food and mortgage. Last thing I need is to increase my use.

I do use basic bleach, vinegar, and baking soda for cleaners though. Those three take care of just about every hard surface cleaning / stain treating I need to do. Add in laundry detergent and dish soap from the store and I’m stocked.

The water question may also depend on where you live. We use cloth diapers for DD, and I’ve compared my water usage on a month-by-month basis from the year before she was born to the year she was here and we were using cloth. It didn’t go up at all; overall, the bill varied by $2-$3/month, sometimes a bit up, sometimes a bit down–in short, if you’ll pardon the pun, a wash. ducks flung vegetables

That having been said, we have a really awesome high-efficiency washer, and live in an area where water isn’t terribly expensive to begin with. (Our water bill is always between $53 and $57 per month, for reference.) I suspect we might use disposables if we were in an area where the water rates made our savings negligible.

Insofar as the original points, I heartily concur. One reason I’m considering bottle-feeding future babies, more expensive than breastfeeding though it is, is the time factor. Breastfeeding DD meant spending about one hour out of every 2-3 sitting perfectly still in a chair or on a couch. (Moving at all meant she’d unlatch.) That was one thing with just the baby, but with an active toddler? When she’s awake, I can’t sit still for more than a precious ten minutes here or there, and I am barely keeping up with my chores as it is! The idea of spending between a third and a half of her waking time unable to do anything except sit still in one place is laughable. Now, future babies may nurse differently, and so I’ll give it a shot, but if they require that kind of a time commitment, especially one in which I can’t do anything except nurse, then bottle-feeding it will be.

More later, when the toddler is napping rather than demanding attention.

 

[schaeffer]

I’m 50 years old. My mother, due to necessity and growing up during the depression, was extremely frugal. I read house keeping hints books as a kid, found them fascinating (still do).

Due to necessity I had and still must be very frugal. Years ago my sister had a subscription to The Frugal Times, and in her frugal way, passed it on to me. I found most of it ridiculous. Seemed like the contributors were trying to outdo one another with little thought about practicality or reality. And I was a cloth diaper, wash Ziploc for reuse kinda gal.

I think it’s very much a case of what is realistic for each family. We never owned a crib or changing table and raised three kids. Thrift store clothing. That worked for us. But thrift shopping takes more time and is hit or miss. I completely understand some finding it an impractical nightmare to do with three young kids. I like it, so it’s not a chore to me.

I have found that nearly always my coupon cutting was a waste of time because store brand was still cheaper than name brand with the coupon. I did great with store specials though.

Fabric is crazy expensive. Buttons and zippers are crazy expensive. When I skewed outfits for the kids it was a luxury, not a savings. Sewing for the home, curtains etc did save us some. Thrift linens even more.

In the end, yardsales, thrift and swapping with friends saved us the most. Plus offbrand. Reuse and repurpose. I don’t like fancy cleaning liquids for everything, the scents bother me and the warning labels terrify me. And I am sure there are savings there.

I wasn’t brought up with things like scented liquid hand soap in every bathroom, or dryer sheets, or a different pair of shoes for every activity. So those weren’t things that felt necessary to me. I don’t throw clothing in the laundry unless it needs it. We nearly always wore pants for a few days. Apparently such behavior is scandalous! Lol.

So if crazy old thrifty me finds thrifty blogs over the top…I’m pretty sure they are.

 

[pianistclare]

This week DH and I have been house and pet sitting for a dear friend and co-worker.
3 dogs, small, med, lg, a cat, and 8 chickens.
LOADS of fresh eggs.

But her house is immaculate! As in…there is NOTHING on any surface.
Nothing, as in bare.
No closet explodes when you open it.
Homemade laundry soap in a mason jar.
Flour, wheat, staples all in huge glass crocks under the center island.
I finally found a very tiny “stash” of canned goods. I felt infinitely better about myself when I discovered a tin of Vienna sausages at the back of a small cupboard.

Honestly, I don’t know how she does it. One of the dogs had an accident in the house. No paper towels. We go through about 8 rolls a week.
NO PAPER TOWELS! Who lives with NO paper towels? Well, she does. She has a large glass crock of olive colored washcloths under the sink.
I’m stymied. We ran to the store, obviously. I had to text her:
*“OK, I give up, where do you hide the laundry soap”. *
She does use vinegar spray for the granite counter tops, and prollly everything else. We left behind some Woolite upholstery cleaner (one of the dogs threw up).
I’m praying she’s not horrified.

She did have a raft (like a pallet) of ramen noodles in the garage.

 

[1ke]

When we broke ranks with our agrarian roots, we lost a lot. Living on a farm for the last 10 years has taught me a LOT. My husband knows stuff just because, and I don’t. He knows it because he learned it from his dad, who learned it form his dad, who learned it from his dad. Honestly, if we had a major breakdown, my husband has survival skills and I’m a tag-a-long.

How do clothes get mended? At the dry cleaner.

How do you make mayonnaise? Huh? What, doesn’t that come from Hellman’s?

How do you can food? Dunno.

How do you butcher animals? Got me.

How do you make maple syrup? Now I know, b/c my husband did it this winter.

How many edible wild things grow on our property? The old folks know.

I don’t know how people do it around here, but they do. They do a LOT of homemaking, home keeping, canning, and such. Although less so with smaller families. They did more with big families, because extended family lived together. Grandma watched the younger kids.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Sewing is a good skill to have. My mother made a lot of her own clothes. I am not sure how cost efficient it often is, with so much inexpensive clothing available.

Cooking is a valuable skill, for both cost and health reasons. There is way too much reliance on take out and prepared food nowadays. Kids should not grow up thinking that that is the norm.

 

[Xantippe]

I will suggest that it starts well before college educations. I will be spending approx. $2000 within the next 3 weeks to send four of my kids “back to school” - and that’s public - not private school. And no, I’m not talking laptops, or name brand apparel, either - and that only includes one pair of shoes.

What it does include is over $425 in “book fees” charged by our public schools here. Then, as a gifted senior, one is taking five AP classes - which they require you to pay for the associated AP test so that’s another $200-$300. Band shirts (mandatory, even if just taking class - not marching) and gym uniforms another $45.

**Holy cow!

That’s so WRONG of a public school to do to you guys.**

Then, since I’m a firm believer in that having a busy, active, involved teen is a successful one (proved by my two oldest who’ve graduated), there’s the $360 in “pay to participate” fees so two of them can be on a high school team. Of course, I’m a crazy parent who then actually wants to attend the games - and have to bring youngest along - so that’s another $150 for a family admission pass (way cheaper than paying separate). Of course the participation fee doesn’t include practice tees/jerseys, mandatory food donations for meals before games, socks, etc - so add in another $175.

Can’t leave out the youngest two so there’s $90 in “club” fees for them to do XC and choir. Plus uniforms/tees - $45.

Being a responsible and knowledgeable parent, I join the PTO’s - another $15, and get my background check done so I can volunteer at events ($25).

Having a second teen enter advanced math means a second graphing calculator (specific brand - $99 - $129), taking a foreign language means a dictionary ($15). Mandatory fundraiser $20.

Specifics on supply list such as purple highlighters, flash drives, Expo dry erase marker sets, multiple reams of copy paper, specific size/brand ring binders, and bookstore purchased only art boxes quickly add up to another $100 plus add in another $20 or so for all the basic supplies (the ones that are actually thrown on the back-to-school sales).

I’ve also been really shocked by how school supply expenses add up. I have kept some ratty binders from past years–here’s hoping they are on the list!

One pair of shoes (the rest are okay enough to stall for another month or two) - $65. Shorts long enough to meet dress code standards - 12 pairs, or approx. another $120.

Senior pics require a $25 sitting fee, and purchasing the basic photo package so the youngest doesn’t feel left out by being the only kid not photo’d is another $25.

Since I want them to have an actual hot lunch a couple times a week, I need to deposit $90 into lunch accounts.

---

Could I tell them that none of them will be allowed any sport or choir, no band class, no foreign language, no AP classes, and that I will not be volunteering or joining the PTO? Yes. Perhaps that would be “frugal” - but it’d also (imho) be definitely unrealistic, ridiculously short-sighted and stupid. Kids need activities for social, and physical development. The money spent on this is much better than having them laying around getting out-of-shape and in trouble. The money spent on education (art, AP, advanced math, etc.) is definitely going to pay off when they go to college.

**Yeah. Theoretically, one can not do organized activities, but from what I hear from parents of teens, that’s unwise. Idle hands (and feet!) are the devil’s workshop. Also, speaking from experience, a lot of girls are in danger of blimping out in the teen years if they don’t do sports. **

Here, at least, it’s an either/or situation - we have no low-cost/free infra-murals for example or community clubs/gyms for them to hang out at. So, it is, what it is.

And actually, the stuff you’ve mentioned is relatively low cost. It’s just that the costs multiply per kid.

But I’ve yet to see any budgeting advice anywhere that includes these type of costs in their plan. It’s like they believe it to be the “good old days” when these things were free or only a token amount.
**
Well, as The Practical Conservative says, a lot of the advice is focused on little itty bitty kids, where you can be economical and it won’t hurt them a bit. I’ve got a 2-year-old (and a 10-year-old and a 12-year-old). We spend around $60 a month on her going to parents’ day out once a month (I know, definitely a frill), but we have never done a baby class with her and probably won’t do any clases or extracurriculars with her until she’s around 6, because unfortunately, we have to prioritize the big kids.

And I think that there is a point even to the silly baby classes. Young mothers are in danger of being socially isolated and classes give one an opportunity to socialize with the same people repeatedly, a very important ingredient for friendship. Plus, it’s good to have a motivation to leave the house, and “I’ve paid for a class that’s starting in 20 minutes!” is a good one. Unfortunately, if one were very rigorous about “unnecessary” kid spending, it could easily put one on a track toward social isolation and depression, both of those being hazards of the SAHM profession. **

Private school tuition, homeschooling curriculum/supplies, or public school costs (above) - education for older kids is pricey. And they need stimulation and enrichment as much as young children do - but a trip to the local park, sharing a book, and buying a yard sale toy or two isn’t going to cut it.

Right.

 

[Xantippe]

For big things-such as a needing a new couch with kids—I learned how to reupholster, and that helps me save furniture I love and have it look new. Things like this I agree with if you are handy.

Wow! You are amazing!

Part of my issue with a lot of frugality advice is that encourages people to major in minors (like the newspaper bag reuse advice). But your sofa reupholstery project made what was probably a multi-hundred dollar improvement in your quality of life–that is totally worth it.

 

[Xantippe]

Super frugal people just seem to have a lot of time on their hands. Who exactly has time to make homemade cleaners, a homemade meal, clip all the coupons you need, bargain hunt for EVERYTHING, etc. and have time for idk, a life?
Heck, you don’t have time to take Junior to baseball practice, that’s why it isn’t budgeted.

That’s an interesting point, now that you mention it.