Is Genesis 2: 15-17 an explanation of Original Sin?

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Why is Sacred Scripture, the first three chapters of Genesis,
an important Testament?

The author’s testament is based on Divine Revelation.

Personally, I accept the theory that the Holy Spirit inspired the author of those first three historical chapters of Genesis. However, I keep imagining the Holy Spirit, at the author’s shoulder, whispering in his ear. :o

If we are going to talk historically, then we need to consider a blood and guts person in the Hebrew Nation surrounded by pagan cultures. This person is open to God’s words. Thus, the author is inspired by the Holy Spirit Who chooses the means of inspiration.
While the Church does not reject this idea of transmission, it is not the only one, and it seems that it might not be the most plausible.
It is very likely that Genesis was formed from a long long LONG Inspired oral tradition, so that when we say “author”, we are probably not talking about one individual who was present to record the events of Genesis, but rather the Inspired story of a people that makes it’s way into writing.

For some reason, this idea of scripture breathing out of a community tradition causes a lot of anxiety among modern people. Perhaps we are conditioned by science and journalism.
Scripture was never intended to be science or mere journalism.
 
While the Church does not reject this idea of transmission, it is not the only one, and it seems that it might not be the most plausible.
It is very likely that Genesis was formed from a long long LONG Inspired oral tradition, so that when we say “author”, we are probably not talking about one individual who was present to record the events of Genesis, but rather the Inspired story of a people that makes it’s way into writing.

For some reason, this idea of scripture breathing out of a community tradition causes a lot of anxiety among modern people. Perhaps we are conditioned by science and journalism.
Scripture was never intended to be science or mere journalism.
Thank you.

When I get back to my family home, I will look for a very old Bible which explains the J. E. D. P. sources for Genesis. I may be wrong about those initials. The one thing which made sense to me was the term “final redactor.”

When I talk about the “author” it does not make any difference if there are more than one gifted individual. What I see is the tremendous intellectual energy needed to pen such a common sense, logical narrative. This marvelous energy could only have come from the Holy Spirit.
 
Until I can find my old Bible, I should clear up some confusion…

In the past, there have been some serious misinterpretations of what I had posted.

I do recognize that there is currently disagreement regarding Sacred Scripture. This should be no surprise since the beginning of disagreement is detailed in Acts, Chapter 15. Unfortunately, a few Catholics, in their attempt to change and downgrade the Catholic Church from within, have boldly declared that everyone’s “interpretation” is equal in the name of

eirenism

Definition
peaceful state of mind
phrontistery.info/e.html

Again and again, I need to warn Catholics about choosing the wrong mentor.

Some mentors refuse to acknowledge the Catholic truths flowing from the first three chapters of Genesis. That is a serious mistake. It is really serious when the original friendship relationship between Adam and God is trashed.

The human person is worthy of profound respect.
 
… Unfortunately, a few Catholics, in their attempt to change and downgrade the Catholic Church from within, have boldly declared that everyone’s “interpretation” is equal in the name of

eirenism

Definition
peaceful state of mind
phrontistery.info/e.html
Just a note: the word immediately preceding eirenism in the cited dictionary:
eirenics = theological doctrine of religious unification
provides the context. Whenever I’ve seen eirenism used, it’s always been in the context of theological unification.
 
Just a note: the word immediately preceding eirenism in the cited dictionary:
eirenics = theological doctrine of religious unification
provides the context. Whenever I’ve seen eirenism used, it’s always been in the context of theological unification.
That is certainly proper.

However, this granny is using the context of Humani Generis.

You are free to play with me or not. :rotfl:
 
That is certainly proper.

However, this granny is using the context of Humani Generis.

You are free to play with me or not. :rotfl:
My sincere apologies for laughing.

Being older than dirt, sometimes, I have to laugh when old journalism skills are misplaced. This is a public message board and people are free to “play” the old way or not. Sometimes, when the old skills are absent, it is funny what happens. 😦
 
That is certainly proper.

However, this granny is using the context of Humani Generis.

You are free to play with me or not. :rotfl:
Precisely. The Humani Generis context is the only context, in fact, in which I myself have ever seen the word eirenism used! That is why I think the dictionary definition “peaceful state of mind” by itself is too general, and potentially misleading.

For one thing, many things can bring a peaceful state of mind besides theological union.

For another, peaceful states of mind (from whatever source) can be justified, or not.

The Humani Generis context is quite clear, yet the word "eirenism’ itself is so unusual, and sometimes spelled differently (in some dictionaries starting with “i” rather than “e”), it’s not surprising that earlier posts in this thread from others expressed some puzzlement in what you were trying to say, and in how the encyclical could be applied to views on Genesis 2: 15-17.

In any case, grannymh, my simple point is that you have quoted it and applied it quite clearly to mean something much more specific than just any peaceful state of mind. Both you and Humani Generis are clearly saying that seeking peace (or a peaceful state of mind) by prioritizing on religious unification can be dangerous if important theological realities and distinctions are ignored.

You quoted the two paragraphs in your post 570, where you expressed wonder as to “why people ignore the warning” in the paragraphs where eirenism is used in Humani Generis.
Another danger is perceived which is all the more serious because it is more concealed beneath the mask of virtue. There are many who, deploring disagreement among men and intellectual confusion, through an imprudent zeal for souls, are urged by a great and ardent desire to do away with the barrier that divides good and honest men; these advocate an “eirenism” according to which, by setting aside the questions which divide men, they aim not only at joining forces to repel the attacks of atheism, but also at reconciling things opposed to one another in the field of dogma. And as in former times some questioned whether the traditional apologetics of the Church did not constitute an obstacle rather than a help to the winning of souls for Christ, so today some are presumptive enough to question seriously whether theology and theological methods, such as with the approval of ecclesiastical authority are found in our schools, should not only be perfected, but also completely reformed, in order to promote the more efficacious propagation of the kingdom of Christ everywhere throughout the world among men of every culture and religious opinion.
Now if these only aimed at adapting ecclesiastical teaching and methods to modern conditions and requirements, through the introduction of some new explanations, there would be scarcely any reason for alarm. But some through enthusiasm for an imprudent “eirenism” seem to consider as an obstacle to the restoration of fraternal union, things founded on the laws and principles given by Christ and likewise on institutions founded by Him, or which are the defense and support of the integrity of the faith, and the removal of which would bring about the union of all, but only to their destruction.

As an outsider, I can offer little to disagreements about distinctive Catholic doctrines. But when I see people talking past each other because of confusion about a word, perhaps I can at least find other examples of the word being used. I have found none other than those using it in the context of political or theological union, and in fact even more specifically, in the context of warning against facile attempts at such union that ignore certain political or theological realities and distinctions.

Posts 572 and 573 grappled quite accurately and helpfully with your post 570. But then in post 574, you chided those who do not look up the word in a dictionary. But Post 572 included an accurate and contextually relevant definition of the word in the variant spelled starting with “i” (irenicism).
 
For general Information.

I will not skip Humani Generis just because some people are not aware of the attacks on Catholicism from within the Catholic Church. There are plenty of wolves clawing at the walls.

In *Humani Generis, *there is plain talk about the progressive Big Tent which is meant to replace the Catholic Church. I will not skip Humani Generis just because some people do not recognize the goal of Big Tent eirenism as explained by Pope Pius XII.

Obviously, this is a public message board where people can present a huge variety of possibilities. Personally, I have learned a lot about what Catholics do not know in depth. In response, I offer the alphabetical approach so that some facet of the real first three chapters of Genesis can be studied and questioned. For me, it is easier to take baby steps, verse by verse, using common sense.

Just because some people do not immediately see common sense in the first three exciting chapters of Genesis or in paragraphs 11 & 12, *Humani Generis --*does not mean I should skip *Humani Generis. *
w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html
 
In any case it seems that man needs to know that he’s lost in order to be found. And the cross does this in one fell swoop. Jesus dies because of our sin, convicting the world of sin, yet Jesus dies because of His love, revealing and convincing us of that love in spite of our sin. He asks that we repay in kind, to begin to love as He does, with His help, where sin is naturally excluded by that very fact. The sacrificial death of Christ was a blaring wake up call: the sin that separates man from God is deeper and more profound than what mere animal sacrifices and burnt offerings could make up for. It requires a total change, a change of heart.in man. God wants compassion and mercy. So He accomplishes both: the supreme once and for all sacrifice to end all sacrifices which in itself simultaneously constituted the absolute unconditional love and forgiveness of God for man.
I commend this post as one succinctly stating the crux of the issue.
It is in defense of such truths that popes and CAF posters alike have rightly warned: if theological unification required losing sight of these truths, such eirenism would be an unacceptably high price to pay.
 
The Letters S & T are for the question –

**Why is Sacred Scripture, the first three chapters of Genesis, **
an important Testament?

Can anyone quote the Sacred Scripture words (first three chapters of Genesis) which are a testament in support of a Catholic doctrine?

Maybe the problem is that there are a few Catholics who no longer accept those annoying Catholic doctrines surrounding Original Sin because Adam is a figment of imagination found in old folks. The popular cry is to update that out-of-touch dinosaur church and build a happy church that is not based on specific doctrines which might offend someone.

There has been plenty of smoke about how people can interpret the first three chapters of Genesis. Can anyone quote the fire in the first three chapters of Genesis?

There is lots of talk about free will. In my childhood neighborhood, we would insist that people “put their money where their mouth is.” Name the verse(s) in those first three truth-filled chapters of Genesis. Truly, there is no need to be afraid of Genesis 1: 1 even though a few mentors skip that point so that they can easily correct annoying doctrines like the “fly in the ointment.” Without a complete understanding of Genesis 1:1, all of us can decide how to correct those awful “contradictions” regarding God’s love. Like a cafeteria. :eek:

There are a few mentors who prefer to put their own mind in place of Genesis 1:1.
Pope Pius XII was right to warn us about imprudent “eirenism”.
 
Note to OneSheep.

Do you have any verses from the first three Sacred Scripture Genesis chapters which you would like to share? 🙂
 
Yes, this is a good presentation. It is interesting that he puts forth that the root of all temptations from the serpent boil down to “God is not good”.

We Christians know God’s goodness through revelation, the Revelation of the Gospel. We know Him through Christ. Through Christ, we know that God forgives. So, if a person were to take literally the story of Adam and Eve, and especially God’s response, including the punishment of increased pain in childbearing, etc., the person naturally reacts that such punishments are uncionable.

In response to this literal reading, the human has the choice to either modify his own conscious to allow that a loving person can punish another in a permanent way, or simply conclude that “God is not good”. Because of the literal-reading practice, the reader ends up compromising some aspect of Revelation itself.

Therefore, I am in total support of the speaker’s call not to take Genesis 1-3 literally. In addition, it behooves the reader of the second story (A&E) to know the purpose of the story in the first place, especially the author’s desired response from the reader.
 
Note to OneSheep.

Do you have any verses from the first three Sacred Scripture Genesis chapters which you would like to share? 🙂
Sure Granny!

To me, the most important part of the entire three chapters can be summed up right here in 1:31a:

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

Blessings! And thanks for asking! 🙂
 
Sure Granny!

To me, the most important part of the entire three chapters can be summed up right here in 1:31a:

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

Blessings! And thanks for asking! 🙂
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

That is an excellent foundation for Catholic doctrines flowing from the first three chapters of Genesis. Thank you.

I am not sure if everyone learned this – Catholic doctrines can be built on a foundation such as Genesis 1: 31a. Thus, OneSheep --What is the next verse(s) you will use to build or reach the next Catholic doctrine flowing from the first three chapters of Genesis? You are not limited to one Catholic doctrine. 🙂
 
Regarding this link in post 606

ec.libsyn.com/p/c/8/1/c81f3e5f5becb8bd/ImmaculateConception2016.m4a?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06c08632d5ce542f8a&c_id=13561692&destination_id=13713

I do have some questions. What are the two creation stories in the first three chapters of Genesis? Please explain them. Are they really different, in what way? Or are the first three informative chapters of Genesis a seamless story with multiple chapters? For example. Are there individual units leading to basic foundational Catholic doctrines? This reminds me to remind readers to be careful about certain public mentors who do not consider the reality of Original Sin because these words are missing.

“Genesis began with six clear statements of original blessing or inherent goodness (Genesis 1:10-31), and the words “original sin” are not in the New Testament. Yet the Church became so preoccupied with the fly in the ointment, the flaw in the beauty that we forgot and even missed out on any original blessing.” Father Richard Rohr

Also, I am a bit confused about “literal” – what is the big deal about “literal”? Catholic teaching is that the doctrines flowing from the first three amazing Genesis chapters are literally true. What more is needed?
 
Yes, this is a good presentation. It is interesting that he puts forth that the root of all temptations from the serpent boil down to “God is not good”.

We Christians know God’s goodness through revelation, the Revelation of the Gospel. We know Him through Christ. Through Christ, we know that God forgives. So, if a person were to take literally the story of Adam and Eve, and especially God’s response, including the punishment of increased pain in childbearing, etc., the person naturally reacts that such punishments are uncionable.

In response to this literal reading, the human has the choice to either modify his own conscious to allow that a loving person can punish another in a permanent way, or simply conclude that “God is not good”. Because of the literal-reading practice, the reader ends up compromising some aspect of Revelation itself.

Therefore, I am in total support of the speaker’s call not to take Genesis 1-3 literally. In addition, it behooves the reader of the second story (A&E) to know the purpose of the story in the first place, especially the author’s desired response from the reader.
And yet “punishment” can be an alternate term for “natural consequences” in this story. And the consequences can actually be reformative-or intentionally formative, to begin with-in nature. Without God man is lost, he suffers, he struggles, he dies; he has no life on his own apart from God. The point is that man must be consciously subjugated to God in a relationship of love. We’re both obligated to it-in order to keep ourselves and therefore our world in a state of justice-and yet we benefit unimaginably from it, which is the lesson we must learn. Either way the onus upon man for fulfilling this obligation to be righteous/perfect/innocent cannot be diminished in our minds-or else we won’t be compelled to achieve our intended purpose.

Man is morally obligated to love, even if the knowledge of that obligation, alone, is insufficient to cause the desired effect. For* that* grace is required, but our purpose here in this life is to become malleable, softened, and therefore opened to grace, to listening to and heeding God’s voice again so that He may mold us into the beings He intends.
 
Regarding this link in post 606

ec.libsyn.com/p/c/8/1/c81f3e5f5becb8bd/ImmaculateConception2016.m4a?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06c08632d5ce542f8a&c_id=13561692&destination_id=13713

I do have some questions. What are the two creation stories in the first three chapters of Genesis? Please explain them. Are they really different, in what way? Or are the first three informative chapters of Genesis a seamless story with multiple chapters? For example. Are there individual units leading to basic foundational Catholic doctrines? This reminds me to remind readers to be careful about certain public mentors who do not consider the reality of Original Sin because these words are missing.
Theology of the Body addresses the two creation accounts in depth. It’s early on in the document, the first few chapters.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM
Also, I am a bit confused about “literal” – what is the big deal about “literal”? Catholic teaching is that the doctrines flowing from the first three amazing Genesis chapters are literally true. What more is needed?
The Church does not read scripture with literalism.
The bible is a work of literature, so in that sense it is literal. That is a different thing than literalism. The priest in this homily briefly addresses this problem that besets modern people, where we demand that truth be seen only through the lens of science and journalism. Truth is much more than that.
Doctrine comes to light for us when reading scripture with the Church.
 
I do have some questions. What are the two creation stories in the first three chapters of Genesis? Please explain them. Are they really different, in what way? Or are the first three informative chapters of Genesis a seamless story with multiple chapters? For example. Are there individual units leading to basic foundational Catholic doctrines? This reminds me to remind readers to be careful about certain public mentors who do not consider the reality of Original Sin because these words are missing.

“Genesis began with six clear statements of original blessing or inherent goodness (Genesis 1:10-31), and the words “original sin” are not in the New Testament. Yet the Church became so preoccupied with the fly in the ointment, the flaw in the beauty that we forgot and even missed out on any original blessing.” Father Richard Rohr
Also, I am a bit confused about “literal” – what is the big deal about “literal”? Catholic teaching is that the doctrines flowing from the first three amazing Genesis chapters are literally true. What more is needed?

Quickly,
before someone answers my questions …

Regarding “original blessing or inherent goodness” When I last looked, the beauty of the really, really big original blessing is still in existence. When we look in the mirror, we cannot miss it. When our material anatomy rots away, we still have the beauty and goodness of this original blessing. Even with our wounded human nature, we still possess the primary original blessing which gives us the opportunity, when we freely choose it, of living forever in joy eternal. Genesis 1: 26-27
 
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