Is God a good ruler?

[Hypnotoad]

I am merely wondering about the efficiency of God’s rule -could God be more efficient in ruling man?

For instance, many sins carry maximum punishments (disrespect to parents, sodomy, and murder all carry or carried death penalties). Also, many sins carry practically the same punishment (onanism and laughing at a prophet have both been punished with death before).

Therefore I wonder how much of a deterrent these punishments really serve? If people already know that they will all suffer the same horrible punishments for things, then won’t they be more inclined to do as many of these bad things as possible (for they can only be killed once) while apart from this, won’t people become hardened and desensitized to the severity of these punishments too? After all, people could reason that since some of these sins are easier to commit than others, then (since we will all be punished by the same punishment) we should commit these sins since we are bound to be caught by at least one?

So wouldn’t it be more effective to create more grades of punishment? And why hell? After all wouldn’t infinite punishment be practically no different from death, for we cannot sense much less can we fear, infinite pain? So why not get rid of hell and simply settle for less exalted pleasures and pains?

I thought death and Hell were consequences of sin?

 

[fakename]

I thought death and Hell were consequences of sin?

I’m not saying that there are no consequences for sin, but rather that the consequences are so extreme and well applied that there might as well be no consequences.

Death for instance, meets both good and bad men, therefore the incentive for moral improvement is diminished since everyone is going to die in some manner.

Also, Hell, defined as infinite pain is not a useful deterrent since no one can imagine infinite pain or “a pain beyond imagination”.

 

[Vico]

I’m not saying that there are no consequences for sin, but rather that the consequences are so extreme and well applied that there might as well be no consequences.

Death for instance, meets both good and bad men, therefore the incentive for moral improvement is diminished since everyone is going to die in some manner.

Also, Hell, defined as infinite pain is not a useful deterrent since no one can imagine infinite pain or “a pain beyond imagination”.

The Catholic teaching is the God created us to be eternally happy with Him in the next life. Adam and Eve created with human nature would die if not endowed with supernatural and preternatural gifts. The lost the sanctified state for their descendents and also the preternatural gifts. Since God has given gifts of what we do not have by nature it is great to receive. If we choose not to receive it, then that is our choice and that separation is our self chosen exile (this is the pain beyond imagination). If we choose to receive it, and maintain our charity through cooperation with God, then we receive eternal life in happiness, after our earthly death.

 

[Hypnotoad]

I’m not saying that there are no consequences for sin, but rather that the consequences are so extreme and well applied that there might as well be no consequences

Death for instance, meets both good and bad men, therefore the incentive for moral improvement is diminished since everyone is going to die in some manner.

Well first you might want to distinguish between consequnece and punishment. Consequence of sin touch the good and the bad because all men are sinners Death is not meant to punish but to help us keep in mind what we are and why we are here. It helps us keep in mind the nothingness of this world, the shortness of time, and the final end we are all called to. I think the problem your having is you’re seeing death in the wrong light and viewing it as something its not. If anything Christ has shown us that He can give humans the strength to turn death from a consequence of sin to an act of love.

Also, Hell, defined as infinite pain is not a useful deterrent since no one can imagine infinite pain or “a pain beyond imagination”.

No one can imagine the joys of Heaven and yet it still provides people with hope. Hell likewise gives some a fear of committing sin because of the consequence of eternal damnation even though they cant fathome what eternal suffering is like. There is a small taste of hell when we try to excuse sin even though our guilt will not go away or when we destroy our conscience and form another one in our own image as if we were Gods; which never fills the emptiness we feel inside. Regardless the fear of Hell is not suppose to be the primary deterrent for sin; the love of God is suppose to be the primary source to deter sin (and if you think about it Hell is acuratley discribed as eternal seperation from God). Yet even if the fear of eternal damnation deterred only one soul from not sinning then it is invaluable since every soul is made in the image of God. Plus those who are not deterred from sinning even after they come to the knowledge of Hell are probably sinning becuase they have formed a deeply rooted habit or because they deny the existance of a Hell altogether.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Well first you might want to distinguish between consequnece and punishment. Consequence of sin touch the good and the bad because all men are sinners Death is not meant to punish but to help us keep in mind what we are and why we are here. It helps us keep in mind the nothingness of this world, the shortness of time, and the final end we are all called to. I think the problem your having is you’re seeing death in the wrong light and viewing it as something its not. If anything Christ has shown us that He can give humans the strength to turn death from a consequence of sin to an act of love.

No one can imagine the joys of Heaven and** yet it still provides people with hope**. Hell likewise gives some a fear of committing sin because of the consequence of eternal damnation even though they cant fathome what eternal suffering is like. There is a small taste of hell when we try to excuse sin even though our guilt will not go away or when we destroy our conscience and form another one in our own image as if we were Gods; which never fills the emptiness we feel inside. Regardless the fear of Hell is not suppose to be the primary deterrent for sin; the love of God is suppose to be the primary source to deter sin (and if you think about it Hell is acuratley discribed as eternal seperation from God). Yet even if the fear of eternal damnation deterred only one soul from not sinning then it is invaluable since every soul is made in the image of God. Plus those who are not deterred from sinning even after they come to the knowledge of Hell are probably sinning becuase they have formed a deeply rooted habit or because they deny the existance of a Hell altogether.

con artists provide people with hope.

 

[joe370]

But my whole point is that I can’t, not to Catholics, because they hold to the overriding assumption that God is all-good, no matter what the empirical facts are. Like I said, it’s not unlike trying to disabuse a child of the notion that her father, although he abused and neglected by her, isn’t a good man.

Are you talking about God doing bad things to people here on earth, or hell?

 

[Viewscreen]

Frankly, I think if God rules the universe, there is absolutely no reason to assume he is benign. That, or he is insane.

Is it possible to believe in both a benign and insane god? You tell me.

 

[Hypnotoad]

con artists provide people with hope.

And what does that have anything thing to do with the price of tea in China?