Is God all knowing?

[Ikechukwujm]

We are all thought God is all knowing. From implication, time is all before Him. He already know things that would happen billions of years to come clearly. Can we say too that He already knows where everybody would end up in - heaven or hell? If He does know already, why would He still go ahead to create a soul He knows that would end up in hell?

Or maybe am missing something or am misinterpreting the whole thing. What do you think?

 

[Timeflies2me]

It is of us to choose to follow him or not. He knows if we will or not, he is omnipotent. He gave us freewill, so if we don’t want to rejoice or love him, then he let it be so.

Everyone can get into heaven, its who wants to make the effort to actually get there.

 

[Kei]

Yes He is all knowing. It is a soul that chooses against Him. But all people can come to God in the end. It’s not like souls at the beginning are forced into one way or another; we believe in free will

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Wouldn’t be much of a god if he wasn’t would he?

 

[Mboo]

We are all thought God is all knowing. From implication, time is all before Him. He already know things that would happen billions of years to come clearly. Can we say too that He already knows where everybody would end up in - heaven or hell? If He does know already, why would He still go ahead to create a soul He knows that would end up in hell?

It does so because, on the one hand, the presence of souls in hell will glorify its justice , and on the other hand, the presence of souls in hell makes the blessed in heaven glorify the mercy of God who has spared them this fate. So the mercy of God is thus even more glorified because there are souls in Hell.
This reasoning is not mine, I borrowed it from St. Augustine.

The absolute will of God in creating us is not our eternal happiness. The absolute will of God in creating us is his own Glory. Our happiness is secondary and depends on its hypothetical will

 

[HGF]

The absolute will of God in creating us is not our eternal happiness. The absolute will of God in creating us is his own Glory. Our happiness is secondary and depends on its hypothetical will

This goes against everything I have ever heard about God.

 

[gregoryphealy]

First, you’re right. It would be foolish and pointless for God to create a world and implant within it people He knew would obey Him so that they could live out a menial life before joining Him in Heaven or being cast away from Him to hell. That seems to violate what an all-loving God would do. Instead He gave us free will – the choice to love Him. The conflict comes in when we ask the question, “If we have free will, does God know what decision(s) I’ll make?” Furthermore, “Does His knowledge violate my free will or my ability to choose to love Him?” To that I would say, God knows all possible outcomes of our decisions (imagine something like a tree diagram of our every human’s choices). He does not make the decision for us, though. Again we have to choose to follow and love him. Does that mean He doesn’t know everything? I’d argue no. He knows our decisions simultaneously as we make them. This is a precarious statement since He exists outside of time, but suffice to say, He knows all potential outcomes while simultaneously experiencing (and thus, knowing) all of our decisions.

 

[Mboo]

First, you’re right. It would be foolish and pointless for God to create a world and implant within it people He knew would obey Him so that they could live out a menial life before joining Him in Heaven or being cast away from Him to hell. That seems to violate what an all-loving God would do. Instead He gave us free will – the choice to love Him.

sorry but this argument of our freedom that God must respected is not valid. God could very well prevent us from doing harm without violating our freedom. I am free to poison my child, but it is impossible for me to use my free will to do so because God has given me a natural love for my child that makes such a choice impossible even though I am free to do so . On the other hand, he did not give me such a love for my enemy, so it’s possible that I use my free will to poison my enemy.
Therefore, God could have given us a degree of perfection so that we can never abuse our freedom to do evil.
The truth that is not accepted today is that the absolute will of God in creating us was not our salvation, our eternal happiness, but its extrinsic glory. He wants our salvation but from his hypothetical will and not his absolute will.

 

[gregoryphealy]

sorry but this argument of our freedom that God must respected is not valid. God could very well prevent us from doing harm without violating our freedom.

Free will asserts that there’s a choice and individual choosers. It says nothing about inclinations or predispositions toward certain decisions. Those can exist while we still have free will. If you’re saying God directly intervenes to change our minds, sort of, but it’s our choice to seek God that results in us doing according to His will.

I am free to poison my child, but it is impossible for me to use my free will to do so because God has given me a natural love for my child that makes such a choice impossible even though I am free to do so . On the other hand, he did not give me such a love for my enemy, so it’s possible that I use my free will to poison my enemy.
Therefore, God could have given us a degree of perfection so that we can never abuse our freedom to do evil.

God could have created us to never do evil, but then we would not be able to choose to love Him. And to willingly love/glorify Him was the purpose of our creation. A servant has no choice but to obey his master, and God did not wish to create servants.

While it’s true that free will can exist in the absence of evil, that is reserved for heavenly bodies in the beatific vision. It’s not because God has stripped those in Heaven of their free will, but because they couldn’t conceive of doing evil in God’s presence (as you allude to with poisoning a baby). All of that said, we’re not in Heaven.

 

[Mboo]

God could have created us to never do evil, but then we would not be able to choose to love Him.

Sorry, but Jesus had a degree of perfection by nature, and Mary had a degree of perfection through grace that made impossible for them to commit sin, even though they were free. But the merits of Jesus and Mary are the greatest.
The possibility of choosing evil is an imperfection of freedom that does not increase the merit of having chosen the good.

 

[Mboo]

A servant has no choice but to obey his master, and God did not wish to create servants.

I love my child, I am unable to hurt him, it does not make me his obedient servant.
So God could very well make us his sons that love him perfectly , without necessarily being obedient servants

 

[gregoryphealy]

Sorry, but Jesus had a degree of perfection by nature, and Mary had a degree of perfection through grace that made impossible for them to commit sin, even though they were free.

Well one of those two was God. So to say He could choose not to love Himself and do evil is…interesting. By extension it was necessary for God to intervene on Mary’s behalf since original sin is an inherited condition, which God could not inherit. I think it’s safe to say you’re looking at the exceptions to the rule rather than the rule itself.

But the merits of Jesus and Mary are the greatest.

The possibility of choosing evil is an imperfection of freedom that does not increase the merit of having chosen the good.

When did we get onto the merits of the differing degrees of freedom? I’ve just been saying that the free will you have now is not the same as what you would have in Heaven. It doesn’t diminish either of them. They’re just different.

I love my child, I am unable to hurt him, it does not make me his obedient servant.

I disagree with the premise that you’re unable to hurt your child. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, your child will be harmed at some point as a consequence of your choices, however small the damage or your choices may be. No disrespect intended, it’s just a fact of nature. It doesn’t have to be something as significant as poisoning your child.

 

[Mboo]

I think it’s safe to say you’re looking at the exceptions to the rule rather than the rule itself.

The exception is a proof that something that was consider first absolutely impossible is in fact possible. So, God could very well give us such perfection that we can never choose to commit sin, as He did to Mary. Only if he did, his righteousness and mercy would not be glorified to their true value.
The ultimate purpose of creation is the greatest glory of God, not the eternal happiness of all humans

I disagree with the premise that you’re unable to hurt your child. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, your

You did not understand the essence of the problem. I can not deliberately want to hurt my child, and yet I am not his servant.

God can very well prevent anyone from going to Hell while respecting his freedom. Only he does it for certain, and he does not do it for others

 

[Reuben_J]

God knows but we don’t. He wants to give us a chance. By not creating us, we will never have that chance. Some go to heaven and for some, it is hell. Creation is a package

 

[gregoryphealy]

The exception is a proof that something that was consider first absolutely impossible is in fact possible.

It was possible because Jesus had a divine nature as well as a human nature. We do not. Jesus had free will as a result of His human nature and did only good because of His divine nature. We do not have a divine nature, therefore we are capable of evil in every capacity. Through fostering our faith, of which a component is charity (a love of God), we conform our will to His will, but it is not infallible like Jesus’ was, regardless of situation.

The ultimate purpose of creation is the greatest glory of God, not the eternal happiness of all humans

I never argued that happiness was our purpose, nor do I believe that. I believe, as you do, that our purpose is to glorify and to love God by conforming our will to His.

You did not understand the essence of the problem. I can not deliberately want to hurt my child, and yet I am not his servant.

Well we have a fundamental disagreement on what you’re capable of and we can leave it at that. I don’t want to malign you any further.

God can very well prevent anyone from going to Hell while respecting his freedom. Only he does it for certain, and he does not do it for others

God is sovereign, and we do not know the bounds of His mercy. But for Him to force a soul into Heaven that doesn’t wish to be there does not seem to be the act of a loving God. By that reasoning, He could disrespect all of our free wills and drag us all into Heaven kicking and screaming. But that would then make me ask, “Why go through this petty project, if we’re all going to end up there regardless of our disposition?” Free will would be inconsequential if God acted as such.

 

[Mboo]

God is sovereign, and we do not know the bounds of His mercy. But for Him to force a soul into Heaven that doesn’t wish to be there does not seem to be the act of a loving God

God can infallibly lead a soul to Heaven without forcing it. That’s what I’m trying to say since

 

[Mary888]

Yes. For sure.

 

[Mboo]

This question has been asked many times over on these forums.

God gave us free will. The end.

The problem is not free will. If God had given us both free will and perfect freedom, we would all be in Heaven.
Whoever has perfect freedom can never use his free will to choose evil. There are two degrees of perfection:

• The one that makes one can never choose the mortal sin,
• And the greatest perfection that makes one can never choose sin, even venial sin

The greatest perfection, only Marie had it. Almost all the saints had the grace of the first degree of perfection from their conversion, that is, they had become incapable of committing the least mortal sin.

 

[Seagull]

I heard today, on the EWTN radio - the Priest said -
the devil DOES NOT know - our personal thoughts -
But God Does -
Now that’s - all knowing !

 

[twoboys]

Whoever has perfect freedom can never use his free will to choose evil.

Sorry Mboo, this sentence sounds funny and apparently self contradictory. Freedom that can only choose only perfect things is not really free. that is not the freedom men have at least. God can create only trees inthe world. Then, there will be no evil!